Another propane question

Started by madpup, March 18, 2010, 08:58:46 AM

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madpup

My next door neighbour has hinted that they don't like the idea that i have a
bottle of propane in the house, so being a good neighbour i thought I'll put it
outside via a pipe down the wall into a cabnet in the front garden, is this safe?
there is not much that would stop someone playing around with the taps and
pipes, does anybody else have this setup? pics please if you have.
Instead of getting married again, I'm going to find a woman I don't like and just give her a house.


www.madpup.co.uk

★★Terri★★

Logically it is the safest way of keeping propane. 

As it is outside any leakages from the bottle or regulator will  dissipate into the atmosphere, rather than gathering in a pool in the lowest point in your house. 
Should there be an emergency the fire brigade would have easy access to the cylinder and it would be visisbly obvioius should you be unavailable to tell them you have it.
I would guess that your insurance company would prefer to see it being outside the house as well.
Perhaps you could put a lock on the cabinet to deter any potential tampering.

Many people seem to get concerned about gas bottle exploding, but I once watched a car on fire (outside my house) when all the windows and tires exploded before the fire brigade realised there were gas cylinders in the boot - they took them out, but they hadn't exploded despite the intense heat.  The biggest problem with propane is that it's a heavy gas - so it gathers in a pool in the lowest point (under the floor or in the basement etc) and can ignite if exposed to a naked flame or something similar.  The nasty smell should alert you to any leak problems - provided, of course, that you are around.

madpup

Thanks Terri, im happy to leave it where it is but to insure the neighbours are happy
i dont mind moving it,
"I once watched a car on fire (outside my house)" still in Beirut then?
Instead of getting married again, I'm going to find a woman I don't like and just give her a house.


www.madpup.co.uk

Bluebottle

If you do move it outside make sure it's not near an open drain or gulley or your neighbours could still be in for a surprise!!!

AnnaSpanna

IMHO I think your neighbours need to get over themselves - if you own the property then there is sod all they can do. If you want to be a good neighbour then that is fair enough but even if the thing is outside an explodes then it will also take out their house too!

The problem with having it outside are as such;

1. Canisters are highly nickable - and then extremely dangerous in the wrong hands.
2. The taps and fittings and fixings can suffer from the elements and become unsafe/stuck/jammed/frozen/corroded etc etc
3. The taps and fittings and fixtures can suffer from tampering thus endangering the safety of you and your neighbours.
4. You will be less likely to happen upon a leak because you won't smell it.

If a propane tank fuelled your duel fuel cooker (if you weren't on mains gas for example - and yes they are still quite common) then your neighbours wouldn't care less. Providing you keep your regulator and fittings in good order and check regularly for leaks then there is no problem with having it inside. I bet you, as a lampworker, take more care and attention of the serviceability of your canister than most people do in their caravans, holiday homes, patio heaters and boats or wherever else they may happen to use them.

people get neurotic about the "gas canister" issue and it is so unnecessary. Providing "we" are careful over their use then they are not a danger to anyone else. WRT the Fire brigade needing to know about the presence of one then make sure your neighbours know the location of it and if the FB are called for any reason that they are made aware of it by either you or the neighbour (what are the chances of you both being away in the middle of the night?). The canisters are designed to be very rugged and withstand high temp and pressures.

I suggest that if you are going to relent to the insinuated pressure from the neighbours then stick it outside in one of those plastic/metal small tool stores you can get from argos etc and secure it to the ground and lock it with a padlock and drill a hole in the side for you hosing thus all your expensive and important bits and bobs are out of sight and out of reach...... Then ask your neigbours if they want you to put your gas cooker outside tooooooo........... hee hee (yes I'm a trouble maker).

Pat from Canvey

Tell them you're unhappy with them having candles in their house or a BBQ in their garden. You're more likely to get a house fire with a candle than a propane tank and the smoke from the BBQ can prompt an asthma attack let alone catch fire to fences etc. This actually happened to a neighbour.

Krysia@No98



I would be inclined to tell them where to stick it too - politely of course  ;D

I live in a flat, so if my canister were to go kaboom then it would effect other residents.  For the one resident that was worried about the lampworking (he was stressed about the kiln  ::) ) I showed him my set up an pointed to all the detectors.  I then pointed out that if it was going to go kaboom i would be right next to it and I really don't want that to happen so....

He did try to get me to promise that I wouldn't go out with the kiln on.  I did say that I wouldn't for the first month.  I got to bed with the thing on.  I then repeated what a very wise man said to me (thank you Sean) you can always unplug it  ;D

He is fine about it now.  Maybe that's all you need to do!?!  (Other neighbours can watch me while I'm melting too if they are so inclined through the window)

I have made sure that my flat is insured and everything is covered.  I can have a canister that is up to 25kg in the flat before the insurance company gets worried.  But seeing as I can just about lift the 13.9kg when it's full anything bigger then that isn't going to happen
-* -  Courage is going from failure to failure with out loosing enthusiasm -*-

llewennog

try building a little housing for the top of the bottle that can be locked around to stop any chav action
the other option could be telling your neibour to keep their nose out :D
I know which one Id choose, mind you my landlady wasnt too impressed at the thought of a dewar of liquid oxy being delivered here until I expained it was safer than bottled oxy, She though Liquid oxy was rocket fuel,, DUHHHH!

Krysia@No98

Quote from: llewennog on March 18, 2010, 03:34:48 PM
She though Liquid oxy was rocket fuel,, DUHHHH!

coz yo can buy rocket fuel over the counter.  Terrorists hand make their explosives to make it more of a challange  ::)
-* -  Courage is going from failure to failure with out loosing enthusiasm -*-

helenfc

Quote from: Krysia on March 18, 2010, 03:41:46 PM
Quote from: llewennog on March 18, 2010, 03:34:48 PM
She though Liquid oxy was rocket fuel,, DUHHHH!

coz yo can buy rocket fuel over the counter.  Terrorists hand make their explosives to make it more of a challange  ::)

lol  ;D ;D ;D

★★Terri★★

The connections are brass - so they shouldn't really corrode - at least not enough to be a problem even with long exposure.  This is why fittings on boats and ships are traditionally made of brass and they are exposed to salt water (very corrosive to metals).  If you want to make sure then simply coat them with some WD40 (not the thread) and put a bag or something similar over them.

There are often comments referring to room heaters, patio heaters etc and gas - caravans/boats as well.  But the gas that usually used in these appliances and in caravans and boats is butane - not propane.  The gas bottles in a caravan are almost always sited outside the caravan in a little box type effort near the towing point.  I lived on a boat for many years and had a gas cooker and fridge - both butane not propane.  I also have a caravan.

While there are no hard and fast rules relating to the storage of propane in the home just consider that if you were a business premises there would be a lot of rules - most of which say that propane needs to be stored outside and away from gulleys and drains and anywhere near doors and windows (especially near to basements and cellars).

No not Beirut - simply an electrical fault on the car as it happened to be driving past my house.  The point I was trying to get across is that despite the intense heat of the burning car the gas cylinders did not explode though they may have if left in more intense heat.  The real issue with propane is leaks and the gas gathering in pools - the gas then becomes a source of fuel to a fire and could be responsible for starting a fire if exposed to a naked flame or a spark.

Getting back to the question of blowing up your neighbours house - the physics of a gas cylinder exploding like a bomb is the the force of the explosion would go up - not out.  Therefore, you would blow the roof of your house off - could be a problem if your neighbour is in an upstairs flat.  A good deal of the explosive force would go out through your windows as well.  Got this info from hubby who has a B3Exp from his army days (they needed to know which way to run in bomb situations in N Ireland).

I suppose at the end of the day it comes down to choice - and is it worth really getting on bad terms with your neighbours over something that can be so easily addressed.

AnnaSpanna

Quote from: Terri on March 18, 2010, 05:24:42 PM
The connections are brass - so they shouldn't really corrode - at least not enough to be a problem even with long exposure.  This is why fittings on boats and ships are traditionally made of brass and they are exposed to salt water (very corrosive to metals).  If you want to make sure then simply coat them with some WD40 (not the thread) and put a bag or something similar over them.

There are often comments referring to room heaters, patio heaters etc and gas - caravans/boats as well.  But the gas that usually used in these appliances and in caravans and boats is butane - not propane.  The gas bottles in a caravan are almost always sited outside the caravan in a little box type effort near the towing point.  I lived on a boat for many years and had a gas cooker and fridge - both butane not propane.  I also have a caravan.



Rubber corrodes. Moisture in brass quick release couplings freezes thus inhibiting the use of such couplings (bearings inside the fittings). Butane and propane are both gas - they burn and explode. Did you really need to nit pick the general gist of my thread or do you just have to be right? I couldn't give a toss about your husbands knowledge of bombs and directional blasts - he isn't the only one who has been there and done it. This is a thread about lampworkers using gas inside not proving points about where you have lived with how many gas canisters you have lived with thus implying superior standard of equipment husbandry. If you also read the thread my point was about care of "canisters" not care of propane. Again my post also backed up your point about them withstanding more heat and pressure....yada yada.

No need to split hairs - we can all do it. And don't patronise. Its not nice.


llewennog

Quote from: Krysia on March 18, 2010, 03:41:46 PM
Quote from: llewennog on March 18, 2010, 03:34:48 PM
She though Liquid oxy was rocket fuel,, DUHHHH!

coz yo can buy rocket fuel over the counter.  Terrorists hand make their explosives to make it more of a challange  ::)

you certainly dont need Liquid Oxy to make a bomb, fertiliser & sugar worked very very well for a long time :D

My spidersenses are tingling that troubles brewing :D ahh one of the joys of forums, NO ONE is wrong and everyone is right dont spoil Pups thread by bitching, the guy is asking for advice nto who can be the most right.

The one point I would like to make about the lass who had the bomb expert husband is they musta taught his regiment to run a f&*k sight faster than ours! a 300mph explosion my god were  they in the 1st regiment of superheros or what?

SilverGems89

Just going to say i keep my propane tank inside, only a 13kg one though! and to be fair neither of our neighbours have any clue about it and i wouldnt care anyway, i have no choice and i am very careful with it, my pipes get bled after ever session and then the torch gets disconnected from the bottle, i even screw the little plastic cap back in the bottle just to be sure it cant leak! As long as your sensible propane tanks really arent that dangerous!

AnnaSpanna

Quote from: SilverGems89 on March 19, 2010, 04:15:49 PM
Just going to say i keep my propane tank inside, only a 13kg one though! and to be fair neither of our neighbours have any clue about it and i wouldnt care anyway, i have no choice and i am very careful with it, my pipes get bled after ever session and then the torch gets disconnected from the bottle, i even screw the little plastic cap back in the bottle just to be sure it cant leak! As long as your sensible propane tanks really arent that dangerous!

I second that! My neighbours are more intrigued than worried!