Wire loops in dichro pendants

Started by Bluebell, October 28, 2009, 10:47:57 PM

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chocolateteapot

I wonderd where all the cheap cabachons came from...doesnt help us who try to make a living from it when others mass produce so cheaply. But then we allllllll know about that kind of thing...just an observation.....
no...don't throw that in the landfill..maybe i can use it..for something..or ...

Zeldazog

Quote from: turnedlight on November 23, 2009, 05:41:03 PM
Just a thought, I thought fine silver wouldn't work harden?
I don't know anything about fusing, but I thought if it seems too soft, maybe you could make it into wrapped loops before use and also, you could try hammering the part that is sandwiched under the glass a bit flatter, so that the top layer of glass isn't sitting on a rounded piece of wire? Just a thought as I said, it may not be any good for you..

Kathryn, you read my mind!  I was pondering that (about the flattening of the wire so you don't get wobbly glass cap), but I know nothing about silver working at all.

Glamglass

I find the wire makes the pendants look a bit cheaper (no offense) I just feel that the aanraku bails are fab or holes in the glass itself- much neater to look at than a bit of wire.


Dennis Brady

Quote from: chocolateteapot on November 23, 2009, 06:49:40 PM
I wonderd where all the cheap cabachons came from...doesnt help us who try to make a living from it when others mass produce so cheaply. But then we allllllll know about that kind of thing...just an observation.....

There's no way of knowing what the ratio is, but you can be sure that a good amount of the low priced cabs being sold that glass artisans complain about being cheapo imports is instead locally made by artisans doing nothing more complicated then running an efficient production system.  Allowing for labour at $30/hr, the total labour and materials cost on the $2 cabs is $1.  Selling something for double the cost is by anyone's standards an excellent profit margin.  Anybody can do it if you just stop making one at a time.  The jewelry makers that buy those cabs are making a very good living.  

For all that aspire to sell their work and have difficult competing with imports, I suggest you ask:

Is the problem that the artisans in other countries are willing to work too cheap
or, is the problem that artisans in this country expect too much?

Are those artisans, in any country, that can sell cheaper doing it by working cheap,
or, are those artisans working more efficiently?


This isn't fine art.  Not much is easier.  A single beginner class is all that's needed to learn most everything you will ever need to know about making glass cabochons.  Cut a piece of dichroic (or any glass), place a piece of clear on top, and cook in the kiln.  Bob's your uncle.  Here's a downloadable production pattern that will allow you to get your per cab cutting time down to a few seconds each:
http://www.glasscampus.com/patterns/Jewelry%20Cabochons.pdf

Cabochons really aren't worth more than a few dollars each. It's unrealistic to expect to make a living selling glass cabs, but it is a terrific supplement to income from other work.  The cabs we sell wholesale for $2 each regularly sell at street markets for $10.00.  For anybody that isn't satisfied with selling retail for 5 times the wholesale cost, probably the only better alternative is dealing drugs.


Dennis Brady

Quote from: Glamglass on November 23, 2009, 07:32:46 PM
I find the wire makes the pendants look a bit cheaper (no offense) I just feel that the aanraku bails are fab or holes in the glass itself- much neater to look at than a bit of wire.



The problem with using glued on bails is there exists no glue that can be relied on to hold.   Failures are so common that many buyers (especially the knowledgeable retailers) now refuse to even consider anything that is glued on.  It's more commonly thought that glued on bails are indicative of amateur work while professionals are more likely chose mechanical attachments.  Drilled holes with pinch bails, or wire wrapped are viewed as higher standard workmanship.

Many retailers feel the same about glued on bails.  It indicates a cheaper product.

Bluebell

Hi folks

Thanks for all the replies - you learn soooooo much on here - it's great!

Well I had a go last night and slipped in some fine silver wire.  Have to say it was really fiddly and I got glue everywhere!  I only did a couple of test pieces first - although I cut a batch but wanted to see how they turned out first.

When they came out of the kiln the loops were a very dull grey, so I cleaned them up as best I could with a wire brush, and silver polish and they're ok (I think).

Perhaps I could dip them into some solution and they would return to being bright and shiny?????

Anyway, here's the photos, one with a jump ring and chain and the other I intend to join up with several others with jump rings and/or other spacer beads on a bracelet.





What I do like about this idea of inserting loops, is that I can create a pendant within a day, whereas I'm not comfortable giving anything away which has been glued less than seven days.

chocolateteapot

Well done lovey that great. I have made some bits with siver wire recently too. Now the only prob i have is the jump ring thing. I'm not keen on soldering my jump rings shut and i dont trust open ones. Do you think we should try and pop a closed jump ring on the loop b4 firing or do u think thats a bit much trouble ( fine silver) Also have you..or anyone considered fine silver bails put in the glass and fired that way? I know they would probably be expensive. I dont really like the look of a jump ring on the wire...do you? just thinking of other things to do..different positon of silver wire so not need a jump ring somehow...if i get something good going will let u know...just finding the time at the mo thoo...

tracy x
no...don't throw that in the landfill..maybe i can use it..for something..or ...

Hotglass28


Dennis Brady.  You have hit the nail on the head, in both your posts.

I could make a living on just selling cabs, but I would have to eat beans on toast for the rest of my life and the dog and rats would not get fed their usual high quality food.

I just grin and put up with it now. Looking at the cheap imports.  It makes me want to make better things.

Those cabs looks good esp the second one  ;D
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Bluebell

I'm not too keen on the jump ring thing either! I recently bought a solder syringe, so may try that, but the jump rings do need a fair bit of cleaning up afterwards.  I'll probably do some wire wrapped loops, attaching them individually as it's the only method (apart from soldering) that I'd be totally comfortable with.  Bit of a fiddle I know, but think it's worth trying.

As for the open jump ring, I think as long as the cab is not too big/heavy (the one in the photo with the chain is about 25mm) it should be ok.  I've also used a 5mm heavy jump ring, so it will need a fair bit of tugging before it opens in error.

I think in time I'll persevere with the soldering though!

I really don't want to be putting a closed jump ring into the kiln.  Never thought about using fine silver bails - prob because of the cost.

Just trying to imagine another option and all I can think of at the moment is to somehow create a bail (like the traditional shape) out of fine silver and slip that under the dichro?????

Will keep thinking.......

Cheers

Linda

Dennis Brady

QuoteLooking at the cheap imports.  It makes me want to make better things.

While some artisans whine and snivel about being unable to compete against imports, others have treated the competition as an incentive to do better work.  In many ways, the inflow of cheap imports is the best thing that could happen to the development of glass arts.  Instead of relying on being able to keep making same old same old work, artisans are now forced to innovate and invent.  Adapt or die!

A quote I like to use in my business classes is:

The only time you get to coast is when you're going downhill.

Anyone that has visited juried fine arts shows recently has seen many examples of how artisans have reached deep into their creative talents and produced some really outstanding work.  Those that expected to keep making the same stuff they always made usually can't even get juried in let alone find customers for their work.  There are 3 ways to increase competitive ability:

1.  Make the same as others but sell it cheaper then others.
2.  Provide a better quality product then others.
3.  Make something different than others make.

If you aspire to making a living (even a part time one) from your work, the third option is the only realistic one.   The Asians will always beat you at the first option, and hobbyists that don't care how much labour time is involved will always undercut you on the second option.  If you expect a customer to buy your work instead of that of some other artisan, make something no other artisan makes.

Most pro artisans know this and are moving steadily to expand their personal skills and acquire new equipment to be able to create new products.  The fastest growing part of the glass arts is cross-pollination of skills with artisans in one discipline working to learn skills in other disciplines.  The successful artisans will be those that have acquired the skills in stained glass, warm glass, hot glass, and sand blasting that allow them to incorporate all those disciplines together in new ways.

Glass cabochons are a fine project to teach beginners, but if you expect to generate an income selling them, find some creative way to make them different then those thousands of other artisans make.

turnedlight

Phew I feel like I'm in a lecture now.. I don't want to be inflammatory but I do feel you could reign in your 'lectures' a little sometimes? It makes it sound like you think we're all daft as a brush and hadn't already thought of these things.. the point of the post was simply for practical advice, after all!  :) :-*
kathryn

Dennis Brady

Quote from: turnedlight on November 24, 2009, 05:38:50 PM
Phew I feel like I'm in a lecture now.. I don't want to be inflammatory but I do feel you could reign in your 'lectures' a little sometimes? It makes it sound like you think we're all daft as a brush and hadn't already thought of these things.. the point of the post was simply for practical advice, after all!  :) :-*

I expect some have heard such comments before and some haven't.  I know from many years teaching business to artists and artisans that most have either not heard them or have chosen to believe such advice doesn't apply to them because their work is exempt from such economic influences.  If you've heard it all before, why not just ignore those comments and leave them for those that haven't heard them?  You might not be assisted by such comments but I expect many others will be.  Do you feel you have the right to decide what advice should be offered?

chocolateteapot

no...don't throw that in the landfill..maybe i can use it..for something..or ...

Glamglass

Quote from: chocolateteapot on November 24, 2009, 11:30:08 PM
Here here Kathryn...xxxxx

Same here ...enough to devitrify your glass before firing it!!! ;)

chocolateteapot

i think a wire wrapped bail will be lovely and finish it off a treat...its not as fiddley as gluing anyway and will look fab. Just been looking for my bead on a wire book for inspiration to do something my self! I did make a cab where the wire is between 3 sheets of glass so the loop will take the chain without a bail,you know,  but i dont know if i like it or not..its a an idea. But i think what u have suggested is the best.
good luck...xx
no...don't throw that in the landfill..maybe i can use it..for something..or ...