DH - Good and bad rods?

[ShinySnail]

I managed to get some really beautiful pinky purple Kalypso beads, and thought I had cracked it as every time I was getting the same result consistantly.
Now I have just started on my other rod and it's all gone horribly wrong - everything has a murky brown hue to it.
At first I was a bit upset as I thought I had lost my touch - then I realised that it coincided with starting the new rod.

Has anybody else experianced this? What (an expensive) pain in the bum

I have made loads of scummy beads with this new rod over the past week, and last night tried out my tiny short end from the first rod and hey presto a pretty pinky purple one again 

[ShinySnail]

Sussed it - it was a dodgy rod for sure, I found another which works fine too.
The bad one had a very thin dark core running through it, in comparison to the others

Very strange 

[Redhotsal]

I don't find DH to be at all consistent, though it may be that batches get mixed at the UK supplier. I've had numerous bundles of Clio, some of which work and some of which go a snot colour instead of pink, I've had Pandora rods that just don't work at all, numerous failures in fact.

[Lakelady]

I have also found some inconsistency......at first I thought I was just incompetent!    ANd I only had one rod of Pandora - never got it to do anything - so I decided I wouldn't buy any more!

[Redhotsal]

My original Pandora was a cloudy green and worked brilliantly and then the next time I bought it it was a clear green. The clear green didn't do anything. It is annoying because DH is certainly not cheap. But what do you do? Obviously the "fault" lies with DH but if you buy through a UK supplier is it their responsibility?

I fell out majorly with a UK supplier because of a glass which didn't do what it was meant to so I gave up trying, but I have often been given glass which isn't up to scratch, including Multicolour which didn't work and 006, a whole bundle of which has scratches running up the first two inches. 

[Lakelady]

My Pandora is clear green....I also can't get Marmorin to do what it should - found two examples where paople have been able to on the web but no-one on here has managed it, so it must be the glass - expensive and disappointing!  I think that the retailer should show that it does what it should and if it doesn't, then they should take it up with their supplier! I doubt that will happen though 

[awrylemming]

I have a bundle of Pandora which I may just as well use as trans green, I've tried every possible annealing schedule with it.  I think I may email DH themselves, it has to be their responsibility.  Actually, I may have bought this lot direct if memory serves.

[Hamilton Taylor]

My Pandora is clear green....I also can't get Marmorin to do what it should - found two examples where paople have been able to on the web but no-one on here has managed it, so it must be the glass - expensive and disappointing!  I think that the retailer should show that it does what it should and if it doesn't, then they should take it up with their supplier! I doubt that will happen though 

Well, speaking as a retailer, I certainly wouldn't want to be selling glass which wasn't what it claimed to be. We rely on our customers to raise problems, and we then pass those concerns on to the supplier. We have replaced bad glass with good in the past, and no doubt will do so again...there is, however, a bit of a problem with silver glasses. We stock quite a lot of glass, and can't test it all to make sure it works - not without passing the cost of testing time on to the customer, who would rightfully resent paying the extra, even if we had the time spare to test in the first place. Rather, we rely on our suppliers giving us good product - not unreasonable, I'm sure you'll agree. On top of this issue, we all know that working silver glass is a skill, acquired with practice and in some cases, not a little luck. So, some users will be failing to get results because they have not yet hit on the right technique to make the glass 'sing'. Indeed, this is where 'supplier testing' can fall down - who's to say I can get a glass to do what it is supposed to do?

The long and short of this is: with any product, if it doesn't perform as advertised, your first point of contact is your supplier. As far as glass is concerned, if they get a number of complaints about a single batch, a supplier will know that it is worthwhile investigating that batch. If the batch is faulty, the manufacturer is responsible for replacement. We have done this in the past (with a bad batch of Multicolour...  ), and of course would do so again.

Sean

[Lakelady]

Thanks for that  .  I do see where you are coming from.  It would be unreasonable to expect each batch to be tested    but I think there are a lot of folk who have had consistently poor results with particular colours - such as Pandora and Marmorin.  If there are batch differences, shouldn't they be picked up by supplier quality control??  In any case, it would be good to know that retailers would have a little test of the ones complained about, so that those who may not be able to get the glass to 'sing' know that they just need to work on their technique!!

Is the issue, from the retailers point of view, that there are no complaints about the glass?  I know I didn't complain about my one rod of Pandora!

[Hamilton Taylor]

Thanks for that  .  I do see where you are coming from.  It would be unreasonable to expect each batch to be tested    but I think there are a lot of folk who have had consistently poor results with particular colours - such as Pandora and Marmorin.  If there are batch differences, shouldn't they be picked up by supplier quality control??

They should be picked up by manufacturer quality control; I guess that's what you meant?

In any case, it would be good to know that retailers would have a little test of the ones complained about, so that those who may not be able to get the glass to 'sing' know that they just need to work on their technique!!

And, if I can't make it Sing either how do we know the glass is at fault? Maybe I just need to work on my technique...Surely what we need is an expert, independent silver-glass user to provide a testing service. Volunteers, anyone?  More seriously, I would think that it is a lot more reliable a signifier if a number of people across the skills spectrum, using a particular batch of glass, reported problems. That is, in fact, what told us that the dodgy multicolour was dodgy.

Is the issue, from the retailers point of view, that there are no complaints about the glass?  I know I didn't complain about my one rod of Pandora!

We certainly haven't had complaints about pandora, and we don't stock marmorin. If we receive complaints about glass, we attempt to resolve the issue. How we go about that depends on the problem.

Sean

[awrylemming]

I spread my Pandora about a bit so others could test it, with the same very disappointing results.  So, worth contacting them do you think Sean?

[Pegasus]

This is a very interesing subject and a difficult one to solve. I too have had several 'bad' batches of DH silver glass. When I was starting out, I did try every DH glass, some with good results and some bad. After many attempts at the bad stuff and after many hours researching how other lampworkers used that glass, I gave up. Sadly, that meant that since then, I have avoided using this glass, and still do not use it. I then watch someone else use the same glass and get fantastic results. This actually happened to me with Clio so I decided to buy another batch and hey presto, it worked!

My point here is that if you are experimenting with a DH glass and are unfortunate enough to get a 'bad' batch, how do you know it's a bad batch? The answer is, you don't know. This is the problem. The only way of confirming whether a batch of glass is good or bad is for someone who is experienced in using that glass, to test it. I am sure that I would spot a dodgy rod of Kalypso immediately, as I use this glass all the time, every torching session.

Personally, my opinion is that ALL DH glass should be batch tested by DH to verify that it is indeed good. Surely quality control lies with the manufacturers always. Anything other than a good batch can then still be sold as a second quality, odd lot, whatever you wish to call it, with a description of how it is different to the original glass.

I simply don't think that it is fair and acceptable for a lampworker trying out a new DH glass, to be sold a duff batch, especially when they will have no idea whether it is good or bad.

[Margram]

Well said

[awrylemming]

Soooooooooooooo, who's our DH expert, particularly in Pandora?  Anyone wanna volunteer to test the stuff, having had previous fantabulous results? 

[Redhotsal]

Personally, my opinion is that ALL DH glass should be batch tested by DH to verify that it is indeed good. Surely quality control lies with the manufacturers always. Anything other than a good batch can then still be sold as a second quality, odd lot, whatever you wish to call it, with a description of how it is different to the original glass.

I simply don't think that it is fair and acceptable for a lampworker trying out a new DH glass, to be sold a duff batch, especially when they will have no idea whether it is good or bad.

I agree but then when the glass is being sold by a reseller DH will say that they don't know how/what the reseller is selling the glass. i.e. are they mixing the batches up/splitting them or whatever so they probably won't go along with this. The other thing is that DH make so many odd lots or test batches that the likelihood of being able to identify which rod is which will be pretty difficult. Personally every time I buy DH, as much as I love it I never get a colour that is the same as it was the last time I bought it and I always consider it as "lottery glass". I really do.

In many ways I quite enjoy that - you have to remember that glass manufacture is a bit like cooking - it's never going to be the same "taste" twice. If you consider Double Helix they're a tiny little outfit so the glass is going to be "quirky" at best - they can't possibly have the quality controls that a larger factory will have. Look at CIM - they've got quite a few problems with glass being compatible right now, compare them to Effetre who have been going for years and years. The Venetians have got compatibility pretty good (they've had a few centuries to work on it), but let's face it even Effetre struggle to get Rubino Oro the same with every batch. Well, I've never had an identical batch, at least.

I've come to the conclusion that that's the way it is with glass - you just have to work with the problems. Although I have to say it's very annoying when the glass doesn't "sing" (or even "croak") and I've wasted a fair amount of money on duff designer glass over the years that doesn't do what it says on the tin. Mind you, if the manufacturers were volunteering to give a refund for all the shite glass that's been fobbed off on me over the years I'll be right up there at the top of the queue!

By the way, Pandora is pretty easy - you won't see any obvious change until it's gone in the kiln but if you pull the glass out after about an hour it should have gone very dark. If it's staying belligerently on minty green, you can bake it all you like but it ain't going to budge.