DH - Good and bad rods?

Lakelady · December 08, 2011, 11:54:14 PM

So it looks like it's just pot luck then! Luckily, I have had nice results with most DH glass but I won't buy Pandora again (and will now contact the retailer I purchased Marmorin from). I still think that quality control should reside with the manufacturer - it really shouldn't be a case of 'oh well, never mind' when it doesn't perform consistently - that wouldn't be accepeted in other industries. If a solution can be found, I would love to know about it!

SilverGems89 · December 09, 2011, 06:25:09 AM

Sal i'm afraid i have to disagree with you and find that if DH is producing glass that doesn't do what it is supposed to, it should be on their heads, no excuses about resellers etc, if a customer has bought one of their products and is not getting the same results from one rod to the next, using the same technique, that is their problem! I work in manufacturing and if any product we make is ever wrong the customer returns it to us and we have to provide replacements, as such we have stringent quality control checks in place, last week i rejected 600+ plus parts that we have made for us because they were non conforming, they get sent back and the company who make them have to provide replacement parts, thats just the way manufacturing works, if you can't make a product that meets the correct standard time and time again then you shouldn't make it because you just end up with upset customers with bad product.

Whie you say Effetre have problems making rubino the same from one batch to another it still always does what it is supposed to at the end of the day, i may have had batches that were slightly different looking in rod form but they still do what you expect them too. If you look at Heather's thread about CIM Creamsicle, she has been offered replacement glass by CIM for a product that wasn't correct, i would expect this from any company who make and sell anything, admitted we all know silver glass is more difficult to produce but that is why we pay a premium price for it, if i'm paying top price for a product i would expect it to be of the highest quality.

Just my 2 cents

Kaz · December 09, 2011, 07:16:32 AM

This is an interesting one. I used to use loads and loads of silver glass and nearly always got good results (mainly with Triton, Aurae and Terranova and some of the Precision ones like Black Pearl and Sacha's Silver). Somehow over the years, those results have become more variable as new glass has come along and often I don't always quite know what I am going to get. I put it down to me and perhaps having a much hotter torch and have used them less and less, other than the really reliable ones. I find Clio a complete nightmare. Maybe we should speak out more than just assuming it's us who are duff!
Kazx

awrylemming · December 09, 2011, 07:46:17 AM

I also agree that it has to be down to the manufacturer - a reseller is their customer too. With silver glass though, it is often a case of whether or not one has 'the touch' for each individual glass. Clio for example, I find that one easy to use and get similar results each time. Terranova, not a chance, that one is a mystery to me. Precision and TAG glasses took a long time for me to get anything from at all, and even now I have to 'master' (I use the term very very loosely

) each different glass produced by them. And batches can sometimes differ from previous ones, needing a slightly different working technique from previously.
Oh, and I bow to anybody who can produce anything pretty with Aurae. I have a single pretty bead from about 8 rods worth!
@ Sal - I have cooked the minty green Pandora forever

Redhotsal · December 09, 2011, 10:14:44 AM

Okay - I know it's strange for ME to be defending the manufacturer.....actually I'm not at all and I agree with you Gemma in principle. I worked in the printing industry for twenty years and had absolutely no worries about returning duff product.

BUT this is not a straightforward situation. We're buying from a US supplier who usually (not always) ships to a third party reseller. In the case of CIM, the product is made in China, sold to a supplier who then resells it to the UK supplier.

The reseller may mix batches up - let's face it, who always has their glass delivered in nicely labelled bundles? I once had two bundles of dark and light ivory sent to me and since neither of them was labelled it was a 'mare to sort out. So, you don't know what batch of DH you're getting unless you order it directly from DH. And I would say batches are mixed up - not in a sinister or underhand way, but purely in the way that stuff gets mixed up.

So, I've had bundles of Clio that have been great for two or three rods and then one rod wimps out. Trouble is, you don't necessarily realise it's a duff one until you're half way through it. And as others have said - if you are new to DH you don't necessarily think that it's the rod - it must be something you're doing? But then, how can it be that there a duff one, if they're all from the same batch?

So, what do you do - send the duff one back to DH or complain to the reseller? Note to self: don't harass the reseller - they don't like it very much........

The real problem is TRACEABILITY. We buy glass with no batch number and no traceability. So we can't say for certain what rods stink and what rods work. It's not a simple procedure.

And for "faults" where do you draw the line? For example - here: http://www.frit-happens.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=33719.msg555326#msg555326 when is orange NOT orange. (As it turns out when it's yellow!)

MAYBE - instead of getting lampworkers demooing the same old techniques to other lampworkers at the Flame Off, we should take a bit of control and invite the manufacturers to come over and explain all about the processes of making glass, and quality control, and then we can have a more informed debate on this? If that were to happen I for one would get off my arse and attend.

Blue Box Studio · December 09, 2011, 04:06:34 PM

This is making me feel a bit better. I am far from proficient in using DH glass but have found one rod works and the next might not so I get despondent thinking I can't do the same thing twice (or more). Perhaps it is not all down to me being duff at this?

Trudi · December 09, 2011, 06:26:28 PM

It's not straight forward .... but I have to agree with Bev.

And while there is a margin for error, you still expect glass to work within a certain parameter..... if you buy a lemon cake you expect it to taste of lemons, it might not be exactly the same each time, but pretty much it should be.

In my day job I work in the food industry .. we supply drinks to M&S, Tesco etc tec ... and all our products are tested .. each and every batch (they're even temp abused to see reactions) .. I run taste panels. And while there can be a little difference (allowing for seasonality and blend of fruits) each batch has to meet a set of pre defined quality attributes .... if they don't then the product gets pulled .... and usually sent to The Company Shop (where there is nothing "wrong" with it as such!).

So while silver glass will vary from batch to batch (and your working conditions may also vary) ... you should pretty much expect to get colour reactions within reason if you are working it right. Don't get me wrong, sometimes it won't be 100% the same but you shouldn't get poo colours and put up with it. If it's not right .. sell it as seconds or don't sell it at all. It certainly shouldn't be sold as first class merchandise!

And I've had Rubino glass with a high gold content ... if it had just a little too much heat it went brown .. so I had to use it up in small beads ... it was a PITA.

You don't have to give the resellers a hard time ... but you can let them know. I have in the past, and I've also contacted the manufacturer direct and I've always had a positive outcome.

ShinySnail · December 10, 2011, 10:17:51 AM

Ohhh look what I started!

Redhotsal · December 10, 2011, 12:33:03 PM

No, it's good to have these discussions. This is a forum for bead makers rather than a forum to admire fluffy kittens. There should be more discussion about what we like or don't like even if the subject isn't always what some people might want to hear. For all those who lurk - I bet you're often thinking what only a few are prepared to say on here.

ShinySnail · December 10, 2011, 12:40:29 PM

I know what you mean, I actually considered deleting my thread just after I made post as I thought it may have sounded a bit too grumbly!

Redhotsal · December 10, 2011, 12:57:25 PM

Lakelady · December 10, 2011, 01:46:26 PM

I agree that it's good to speak up (I am always getting into hot-water and often have to reign myself in!

)...

In the same vein as others, I used to work in the pharma industry, who you can imagine have very strict quality controls - now I wouldn't expect the criteria for glass to be sa stringent, as there is no need but there does need to be realistic pass/fail criteria, so I for one, will be contacting my suppliers when I experience a problem (it may just be that there is a trick that I don't know about - hence my post re MArmorin a while back) and if it is a batch issue, then I would expect my supplier to take it up with the manufacturer. From reading other threads on here, the manufacturers do seem happy to at least investigate - after all, if they didn't want to put things right then people would soon stop buying their products!

Princess Peggy (Priscilla McGirr) · December 10, 2011, 02:43:02 PM

I would love to know if ANYONE has had a satisfactory result with Marmorin? I certainly havn't and it is an expensive white elephant in my glass rack probably never going to get used.

p.s I never have a problem with Clio, although the last batch of rods I got were a strange green colour.

Lakelady · December 10, 2011, 02:49:29 PM

Quote from: Princess Peggy on December 10, 2011, 02:43:02 PM
I would love to know if ANYONE has had a satisfactory result with Marmorin? I certainly havn't and it is an expensive white elephant in my glass rack probably never going to get used.

p.s I never have a problem with Clio, although the last batch of rods I got were a strange green colour.

I have even posted on the online blogs where someone got a good result (think it was Dragonjools) but got no reply and as far as I know, the post wasn't approved, so I will definately be speaking to Martin or Emma to see what they think! I actually think the pale blue you get if you just melt normally is quite nice, especially when etched but would rather have got what the picture showed!!

I don't have a problem with any of the others either, apart from that rod of Pandora!

sea-thistle · December 10, 2011, 04:34:29 PM

Quote from: Princess Peggy on December 10, 2011, 02:43:02 PM
I would love to know if ANYONE has had a satisfactory result with Marmorin? I certainly havn't and it is an expensive white elephant in my glass rack probably never going to get used.

p.s I never have a problem with Clio, although the last batch of rods I got were a strange green colour.

Mine were a strange green colour this time and were blue the time before, curious!! I have Marmorin but in stringers which I bought a while back already made,from the USA and they have been lovely! I don't have any thick rods of it so can't comment on those.