Controllers for ceramic kilns

[NRichards]

Hello,

I've had a bit of a search and can't find the answer elsewhere so forgive me if this has already been answered.

I've recently completed a glass fusing course and being stuck in a stressful, poorly paid job I am desperate to get a kiln as some kind of escape route!

I've noticed that ceramic kilns are considerably cheaper than purely glass kilns but have been told I would need a separate controller in order to control the temperature. I have no idea what kind of controller I would be looking for or how easy they are to use. I like the idea of being able to make my own moulds out of clay too.

Does any body have any advice, failing that does anybody know of a good place to look for a glass kiln? I keep hoping for warm glass' sale but don't know exactly when that'll be or if i can wait that long.

Thanks in advance!

[Les]

Try dropping Lee a line, here ... http://www.kilncare.co.uk/

He's also a member on the forum too

[Redhotsal]

I started off with a pottery kiln. Got a Hobby Kiln from Potterycraft.
Beware though - a decent controller will set you back probably a couple of hundred quid. I have a Bentrup controller  - but it's not a standard ceramics one.

Most potters aren't interested in the ramp UP - they just want to get to temperature as quick as possible. With glass it's a lot more sensitive so you want to possibly control the ramp up rate so you'll need to find a controller which is capable of doing this. The number of segments - or separate "bits" in the program is very important. Of course so is the ramp down. You'll need to ramp down quite slowly until you are past the strain point and then you can quicken up the temperature descent. Again - for potters this is not something they are particularly concerned with as they generally turn the kiln off once it has fired. SO....a ceramics controller is not always appropriate for glass needs.

Apologies to ceramicists - I know it's more complicated than this but in general - a pottery type programmer doesn't have as many segments as a glass programmer does.

Paragon Sentry controllers have more segments than you can shake a stick at - which makes them a much better proposition for fusing work. But Kilncare are fusing specialists and so their controllers and kilns are much more suitable for what you want. Plus - they're British and they are the most helpful and charming people you'll ever care to meet.

So while I can understand your angst it seriously would be better to save up your pennies and get an appropriate kiln for your needs.

While you are doing this you could always be playing with the microwave kiln:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FUSEWORKS-microwave-kiln-kit-make-FUSED-GLASS-jewellery_W0QQitemZ380269952926QQcmdZViewItem?rvr_id=144013578196&rvr_id=144013578196&cguid=415d0b0a1290a0e201a31fb3ffb5c891

Cost you around £70. I know that loads of people claim they kill your microwave but I've seen one used and I think they're terrific bits of kit - they come with a load of glass and all the bits and pieces you need. My mate Jim has one and dared put it in his very posh Miele microwave. His wife played merry hell when she found the fibreblanket still in there. Having said that you can pick up an old microwave or a cheapy one from Tescos and then it doesn't matter if the kiln gets the better of it!

[Redhotsal]

I should add:
The microwave kiln won't actually anneal your glass as the cooling rate is too quick to eradicate stress in the glass. Having said that, it probably doesn't matter unless you wish to sell your pieces in which case you can always find people on here who will be happy to anneal your work in their kilns at a later date. Many people offer this service for "free" in exchange for postage costs and (usually) chocolate or (sometimes) alcohol!

There's a thread on here somewhere listing people who will do this:

http://www.frit-happens.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1939.0

[★★Terri★★]

Most potters aren't interested in the ramp UP - they just want to get to temperature as quick as possible.  SO....a ceramics controller is not always appropriate for glass needs.

Sal - potter are very interested in the ramp up - but not the ramp down.  Complicated explanation about driving off chemically combined water molecules....but won't bore you with it.  But you are right about a standard ceramics controller not being appropriate for glass if you need to control the ramp down, however, I have fused small bits successfully (pendants, donuts etc) and use my ceramics kiln to batch anneal my beads without any trouble.

Hobby Craft do controllers that are fine for firing glass - I rang them to see about putting one on mine, but mine is an older kiln and would need too many modifciations to be worthwhile.

Keep an eye on Ebay for a secondhand kiln, but get the model number etc and check with Hobby Craft before committing to purchase.

[Les]

I can't remember how I did it, but I managed to do some basic fusing in my ceramic kiln, using just the bog standard kiln sitter controller... but it took a LOT of kiln sitting ..... they are great for batch annealing though... just ramp up on the lowest power setting and let it switch off as it hits temp... the brick lining keeps the temp ramp down very slow and even.

Mine's a VERY old and rusty Cromartie top loader, btw

[Moreton]

Hi and welcome.
As Sally says Lee at Kilncare is the bees knees. A family buisness that will give you all the advice you would ever need regarding kilns. Have a chat with Lee and you won't go wrong. They will call to fix a kiln or you can take one to them in Stoke for the Kiln Clinic to fit anything you desire.

If you get a kiln that runs of a 13Amp plug then both Lee and Stafford Instruments do a plug in controller designed for glass work.  Approx £300 or a bit less.

http://www.stafford-inst.co.uk/

Ask for John at Stafford and you, again, will get the most helpfull service you could ever want. Both companies are small &  run by people who will give you the same attention that you would get if you were buying thousands of pounds of equipement. A chat with either will save you lots of mistakes and lots of cash.

[Zeldazog]

Many people can, and do, successfully fuse in a ceramics kiln.  Indeed that's what I cut my teeth on, spending my whole first year learning, using one, and subsequently teaching it the next year in one.

It had two ramp and holds I think, and then a cool down. As Les says, ceramics kilns are usually brick lined and so they cool down VERY slowly, certainly slow enough for annealing purposes.

It can limit what you can do program in though, for example if you wanted to add an extra long bubble soak, not all of them have the first soak before the second ramp.  Or, if you were doing something extra thick, and needed a long hold at the top of the annealing zone, even though as said, ceramics kilns generally cool down slower, you wouldn't be able to add in this extra soak (unless you got adept at stopping and re-programming your kiln.

The other thing to remember about the difference, is where the elements are.  In ceramics kilns they're round the side and in most glass kilns, at the top.  This means you have to be a little bit aware of firing speeds, and you glass being too close the sides in a ceramics kiln.  A big piece might fuse on the edges before the middle, so you'll get bubbles, and small pieces you can get uneven firing.

I think Rohde (and no doubt others too) do a kiln which is designed specifically to get round this - it has both side and top elements which can be fired independently.  But I think its probably well over £1000....

ETA: Meant to say, the main reason that ceramics kilns are a lot cheaper than glass ones is because of the controller.  Take a look at something like the Paragon Caldera, comes with an infinite switch+pyrometer option, and then a full glass controller option.  Same kiln, the only difference is the controller, and see the difference in price....

[Redhotsal]

Sorry Terri, displaying my ceramics ignorance - which possibly explains why my pots were always crap! 
Heh - lots of good advice on here though.

[Moreton]

A bit more.
I also started with the "wrong" kiln. An Efko enamelling kiln borrowed (still have it 4 years on) from my Brother in Law. No controls so I had to sit by it switching it on and off while watching a Maplin multi meter with a thermocouple poked through a gap in the door. It got me started.

Then bought a "bargain" ceramics kiln on E-bay, only had an infinity switch so not much better. Paid £100 +£50 to collect. Sold on e-bay for £1.58  . 

Repeated that mistake with another ceramics kiln. A 30 year old Webcot but a really usefull top loader that I still use. Side elements are just right for some lost wax processes and I can increase the volume by adding bricks on top as the lid lifts right off.

Finally came to my senses and got one of Kilncare's wonderfull fusing kilns A lovely blue FK4. A real bargain £1100 on E-bay and fully working , in fact hardly used. They are now £4000 + . I had been looking for 3 years and bought the only one I have ever seen on E-bay 

So, as others have said, yes you can manage with the ceramic option but it is far far better with the real thing designed for the job.

[NRichards]

Thanks for all your responses.

I'm afraid i'm a bit ignorant as to the terminology and techincal stuff!! On my course we did all the designing and creating but never really touched the kiln.

I really want to take the next step and get my own kiln but is there a way of doing it without spending £1000 or more?

Thank you.

[Les]

If you want to get a cheaper ceramic kiln to get you started, you could try these guys ... http://www.corbykilns.co.uk/
I got my first recon kiln from them... I still have it

[Zeldazog]

Take a look through the kiln threads here: 
http://www.frit-happens.co.uk/forum/index.php?board=76.0

and the fusing board here:
http://www.frit-happens.co.uk/forum/index.php?board=20.0

Many different kilns have been discussed in these topics, including the merits and disadvantages, suggestions as to what to consider, etc. 


Yes, you can get a glass fusing kiln for WELL under £1000, it all depends what size you want and what else you might want to do apart from fusing.

Is ceramics firing definitely a requirement?  Making your own moulds sounds like fun, but do you have any knowledge of ceramics?

[chipperpottery]

Hi, my buisness is Ceramics and I have two studio kilns.
Hobby Ceramicraft in hook sell glass kilns and ceramic kilns, they are really nice people, I have delt with them for years.
If you look at their website or give them a call and ask to speak to Mathew or Jane, they are the owners and will answer any of your questions as they also do glass fusing.....mention that Rita in Somerset gave you there number.
Hope this is a help

http://www.hobbyceramicraft.co.uk/

[Moreton]

The easy way is spend,spend spend.

Or use a bit of ingenuity and adapt.

A ceramic kiln , cheap (relatively) from e-bay will do the job ...but.. requires input from you.

A dedicated glass kiln, designed for that purpose will make life easier and allow you to concentrate on "artistic input" rather than "kiln management" but really it depends on how much you want to spend to make life easier.

To start many of us have gone down the cheap route just to check that we really, really do want to do this. Once that is established you will want to spend every penny on equipement and GLASS, GLASS, GLASS. Can be rather pricey  

The kiln that I mentioned previously that sold for £1.58 went to a chap who had an "Idea to revolutionise Art Glass"  Really    AND make his fortune  

His idea ,when he revealed the "secret" to me, was actually a load of rubbish but, give him his due, he wanted to try and was willing to give it a go.

So give it a go, not a lot to lose except your pride and remember " to make no mistakes is to make nothing"