When to start selling and how!

[Zia]

Ok so I am a real newbie...just been on the torch for over a month. So right now its purely a fun thing to do for me. But I have been wondering......

How long after you lit your first torch did you actually start selling?
How did you start...on the internet, locally  or do you have a shop....etc?
How do you know that your bead is even good enough to sell?


xxx
V

[Helen G]

Hi Zia
In terms of months I a relative newbie although I am lucky enough to have torched fulltime since last November. But other more experienced lampworkers may have better advice. However, my view would be get your work seen and get feedback from others. For ages I didn't sell because I thought my beads weren't "good enough" to sell. I started wearing my beads and had lots of positive comments which gave me the confidence to go ahead. My DH is great for constructive critisism or being blunt to put it another way! If he doesn't think it's any good he will say so-and he has! I don't sell much through my website yet, will eventually list on etsy but at the moment orders from friends, friends of friends and a retail outlet are enough to keep up with.
Hope that's useful to you, good luck

Helen x

[Zia]

Thank you......

Yeah my DH is a good critic too, whereas my lil one loves everything, even the broken ones.....lol

I suppose I do need loads more confidence to show my beads....I dont even really wear them! for fear someone wont comment or not like them. I love each piece I make, so they just hide in my bead box! I kinda want everyone to love this thing as I do...which is totally unrealistic......grins. And the pieces I thought were awful DH likes....!!!

[beadysam]

It was about 18 months before I was happy enough with anything to sell it and about 2 years before I actually sold any beads.

[Redhotsal]

I guess I sold my first beads about three months after I started making them. I sold on Ebay then because then I figured that people would have a choice - whether to buy them or not and in fact they could also set the price as I sold at auction rather than as buy it now. When you first start it's very awkward to know what to charge for your work.
To know whether you are ready or not to sell you need to ask a few questions:

Firstly - technically speaking are your beads up to scratch -
Are the holes neat and dimpled or are they ragged and sharp?
Are they sound structurally - are there any cracks or defects?
Do they "hang" right? If it's a pendant is it balanced? Or if it's meant to be a centred round bead is it? Wonky, off centred beads are okay - and lots of people like them but if they bought your beads for a specific reason - i.e. if they need them to "sit right" on a piece of jewellery they may actually send them back if they don't! So make sure your customers are aware of what it is you are selling.
Are they annealed?

If you tick all of the above boxes then there's no reason why you shouldn't sell. Whether you think your beads are aethestically pleasing is an entirely different matter - but the buying public will decide that for you!

[Hels4444]

Well said Sally

Helen

[Zia]

oh thank you sal for your answer....as usual you are very helpful!

The thing that bugs me atm the moment is the annealing question...

It will be ages before I can buy a Kiln, I need a decent torch first lol.  I have been discussing this problem on other sites and personally with some beady ppl....
It seems there is a discrepancy regarding annealing. Many feel that its enough to cool down a bead "properly" using vermculite or a bead blanket and feel that the "annealing" trend is just a way to promote better and feel that annealing is for ppl too lazy to cool their beads down slowly.......others mean a kiln is an absolute must for durability and strength! But then again...we are working with glass!

Having been on this site I naturally feel closer to the annealers, than the non annealers yet does that mean I wont be able to sell my beads until I get a kiln......that could take years...there is so much I need first....


xxx
V

[sarah t]

i think annealing is important as they nead to go throug the process to make sure they are sound. especially if you are selling them......i am a long way off a kiln and only been torching since may so know where you are comming from re selling and having confedence in your beads .......i am saving all but the worst  beads and will ask one of the lovely people who have offered kiln space to do a batch once i have a batch worth doing !!....there is a list of those offering kiln space but not sure if any near you as you are not in uk i seam to remember ?

[Zia]

Yeah! I am in Austria......and not aware of anyone doing batch annealing here......and the ppl I have asked kinda look at me as though I am crazy!

but then maybe I am....grins

[Trudi]

You know I definately wouldn't sell without annealing my beads for sure.

What you have to remember is that once you start selling you start to build a reputation - and if you're first sales aren't up to scratch you won't get repeat business. It's hard and frustrating I know as we all want our beads to be adored. It took me quite a while before I was happy to sell - and looking back on reflection, what I was happy with after 6 months   - going on a furter 6 months I still realised I had a lot to learn. Obviously time frames are different for each people - but what Sal said was sound advice.

You know as long as you cover the cost of P&P you could still send to people in the UK to anneal! What I would say though is not to clean them till aferwards.

[Billie]

Hi Zia.  You'll find that many German lampworkers do not kiln anneal, they flame anneal their beads.  A supplier we used in Germany when we were setting up in France advised of this (although I do kiln anneal).  If you are on a German forum this may be why your question is being met with a puzzled reaction. If you are selling locally in Austria, then the kiln annealing may not be as much as an issue but you would have to state this clearly on your website for buyers further afield like the UK/US 

[Redhotsal]

Cooling beads in a fibre blanket or vermiculite definitely does NOT anneal your beads. It only allows the beads to cool at a slower rate than they would if they were left out in the air.

I've done a few checks with polarisers on this - vermiculite cooled beads appear to be as stressy as beads which are cooled simply by leaving them on your rod rest. I think everyone would agree that a bead left to cool this way is not annealed.

To anneal properly you have to allow the outside and the inside of a glass object to cool slowly and at the same rate - a typical cooling rate from 520 C to 420 C is around 1 degree per minute for a typical bead. Even by having the vermiculite in a slow cooker won't particularly help as the slow cooker temperature is way way lower than the critical temperatures 420 - 520 C.

Annealing speeds are directly proportional to the size of the object - a large paperweight of around 120mm diameter can need several days to anneal.

Annealing is a tricky subject - if you look at the imported lampwork beads that you can buy by weight - none of them are annealed and they definitely aren't cleaned. That's one of the resaons that these beads are sold by weight rather than individually. People still buy them - and for most applications they're fine - but they are what they are.

As artisan lampworkers we have a responsibility to let people know exactly WHY they are paying more for our beads than for imported lamwork. Many lampwork buyers are very aware that beads need to be annealed and would not touch a bead if it wasn't. Also - as we like to use lots of exotic things in our glass now - silver, silvered glass and the fact that many of us are happily mixing together glass from different manufacturers without a care. I would actually argue that there's MORE need for us to anneal our work than any of the imported lampwork makers.

It is a pain trying to find someone who will anneal your work but it is very worth while. Trudi is right abou thte reputation aspect. Good luck with the sales and finding someone to anneal!

Just looking at the above post - flame annealing is an option but to be honest very few people are prepared to anneal their beads in the flame for enough time to make it a viable option. Just wafting the bead in a propane flame for a minute is still NOT annealing.

[Zia]

HI Billie

Thank you for clearing up some of my confusion.

The course I did taught me to flame anneal - I assume thats what it is.....taking your beads temperature down slowly in the flame by moving it to the back in and out - time consuming until its ready to go into the heated vermculite (sp!) for further cooling down...until cold. This should make the bead as strong if done properly.

I am amazed at how "cheap" the kiln annealed beads are in the UK, the wonderful works that are not only time consuming but extremely beautiful. With some of you charging "only" 12 pounds for a set of more than 6 beads....that can never cover the cost of the equipment required (torch, kiln, gas, oxycons, glass etc.), tax, postage, and all the time spent "marketing" the beads. Let alone covering the time spent making and annealing these works of art...

I went to a local show the other day and was surprised at the prices of the stuff on sale there. It was for ceramic and felt beadwork, i dont feel that ceramic beads need nearly half as much time and skills as the glass beads need and yet she was charging, and the ppl were paying amazing amounts for her things. And I found her prices fair....(my pockets where empty when I left.....grins)

Someone on here was selling beautiful animal beads for only 5 pounds the other day......that can never cover costs.....!!

Just wonder how things are done.....sighs....or whether I should just keep all my beaded goodies for myself....grins....

[Billie]

Sal, I had this argument with my in-laws when I pointed out beads had to be kiln annealed before selling.  Because they had gone through a German supplier for all their equipment and were advised flame annealing was all that was required I was met with "it's a conspiracy by the kiln sellers".  Strangely, as soon as I arrived with my kiln I was batch annealing for them, and now they have their own kiln.  I'm just pointing out that Zia may possibly be getting the same information from German forums and that the lampworking buying public in Austria may be used to local lampwork not being kiln annealed.  Zia, I'm not recommending flame annealing only, I'm pointing out what might be occurring where you're located and what is acceptable by local buyers.  It's not my marketplace so I have no idea. It's worth asking on any other forum you're a member of if there is someone who could batch anneal for you locally, or if they are selling without kiln annealing and what they buyers expectation is.

[Zia]

What has confused me most is that Lauscha! do not kiln anneal their work! They rely purely on the quality of their glass.....

Wonders if that has anything to do with it...