Annealing beads question - hep please

[BubblyJ]

Hi All,
I am new to this beadmaking......I have bought myself a kiln - Paragon SC2 with bead door.  Today I made some beads and put them on the mandrels into a fibre blanket to cool down.  Can I anneal them now they are cold - on or off the mandrels? and when putting them in from cold, what temperature does the kiln have to be when I put them in, how long do they have to 'cook' for - sorry if this all sounds a bit daft and primitive but, when I was being taught this, we did not really go over this part and the instruction manual for the kiln does not cover this - I would appreciate any help and advice on annealing both from cold and from hot

[Rachel B]

There is an annealing schedule on here, I`ll just go find the link for you!

Here you go
http://www.frit-happens.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=5808.0

Its what I use for my SC2 and have no probs.  I cool mine in  a fibre blanket for 35 mins , take them off the mandrels and stick them straight onto the kiln shelf and batch anneal.

Use the schdule written out by Kay x

[flowerjasper]

i use thatprogram  too,
i can fit upto 40-50 in one firing,depending on size ,using cut down mandrels as kebab sticks and a wee wire frame to hold them.
sandy

[BubblyJ]

Hi again all, thank you for the info, not sure what it all means as this kiln thing is sitting in my studio looking rather menacing - I have not got a clue how to programme it - the manual might just as well be in Japanese - I have written down your suggestion for Kay's programming (whatever that means) and have look at it 2morrow - when my brain is clear.  One thing though, when annealing beads off the mandrel, do you just put them on the kiln shelf? or do they need that special paper stuff on the shelf first (I feel totally useless about all this) help???

[flowerjasper]

the general thought is to run the kiln empty first to burn off any "stuff" (you can see i have my technical head on)
i have a ceramic tile on the bottom of my SC2, (i put in the fibre that came with the kiln but threw it away when it went blackish, apparently its meant to do that )
my kiln sat for a good few weeks,looking scary, i read every thread about kilns,
eventually i programmed it (via a thread  NOT the manual) and it was sooo much easier than i thought 
the rack i have  i made from wire from B+Q,
having now tried a bigger torch and made bigger beads i may well have to brace myself and go for the second program.. so i can put the straight into a hot kiln as i work

[Kaz]

the general thought is to run the kiln empty first to burn off any "stuff" (you can see i have my technical head on)
i have a ceramic tile on the bottom of my SC2, (i put in the fibre that came with the kiln but threw it away when it went blackish, apparently its meant to do that )
my kiln sat for a good few weeks,looking scary, i read every thread about kilns,
eventually i programmed it (via a thread  NOT the manual) and it was sooo much easier than i thought 
the rack i have  i made from wire from B+Q,
having now tried a bigger torch and made bigger beads i may well have to brace myself and go for the second program.. so i can put the straight into a hot kiln as i work

Let me know when you are going to do this Sandy and I'll have a go with you - I have had a few pressed beads crack recently and think I need to put straight to kiln soon. I have an SC2 as well.
Kaz

[Kaz]

If you haven't seen it there is a programming video on the paragon website - incredibly helpful if you link that to the annealing schedule above. http://www.paragonweb.com/VideoInfo.cfm?VID=2
There are lots of threads on annealing - will see if I can find anything else.
I remember well what it was like just looking at that blue box.....
Kaz

[Kaz]

Try this for how to put them in the kiln - http://www.frit-happens.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=6950.0 - you can buy this stuff from B&Q and cut and bend to fit and cut down some bent mandrels for kebabs. These metal racks need to be fired once first otherwise they leave cr*p all over your beads - it cleans off but scary when you see it and think your beads are ruined!
Kaz

[flowerjasper]

lets go for it Kaz!
i have a few presses now, love them,
i think my beads  crack because i keep looking at them for too long before i put them in the vermiculite 
just waiting for that colour to develope...
ok i will now go and download myself a life!
sandy x

[julieHB]

Hi, this is the anneal-as-you-go schedule I use for 104COE glass (have a sc2):

ANNEAL AS-YOU-GO

Segment 1:
Ramp1 700 deg C
Temp1 510 deg C
Hold1 12 HRS

Segment 2:
Ramp2 FULL
Temp2 520 deg C
Hold2 1 HR

Segment 3:
Ramp3 78 deg C
Temp3 370 deg C
Hold3 0000mins

Segment 4:
Ramp4 0000

There are many opinions on how fast to warm up the kiln at the start, some go FULL and accepts a little overshoot before the kiln settles down, some go FULL for most of the way and slows down for the last 20 degrees or so.  I've chosen 700 deg C because I think Q mentioned somewhere it was the most energy-saving (please apologise if I'm quoting you incorrectly Q).  While the kiln warms up I pull some stringers and try to decide what games to play 

In segment 1 I set the holding time to 12 hours, but as soon as I have put in the last bead for the day I skip to segment 2. On the sentry 3.0 controller you do that by pressing the up arrow twice, on the sentry 4.0 controller you skip a segment by pressing up arrow once.  SStP should appear in the window.  Press start.

With annealing as you go it is vital the bead is properly flame-annealed before putting it into the kiln, i.e. first the bead needs to be warmed through, then flame-annealed in the outer part of the flame until it does not glow anymore before going into the kiln.  If too hot it will stick to other beads or kiln floor, if not evenly warmed before flame-annealed it might crack down the middle of the mandrel (and yes, I have experienced both  , luckily with no great consequences).

Hope this helps 

[Kaz]

Julie - thanks ever so much for this - I am pretty sure you have just saved me literally hours of searching! May have a bash on Friday when I have a whole day, yes, a whole day (yippeeeee!) for beading . First proper full day since I have been back at work as it has been like a whirlwind! Even though I promised myself not to take on more than 3 consultancy days a week.
Kaz

[BubblyJ]

Thank you all so much for your help on this annealing thing - I am going to have a go this morning to batch anneal (scary!!)  just one thing though, presumably I put the beads into a cold kiln and then programme it??  I'm not trying to be thick deliberately, but this blue thing in the corner is a bit scary looking, is very expensive and I don't want to ruin my nice beads if I can help it!!

[julieHB]

Hi Bubbly,
If you program for the first time you can do so after you have put the beads in.  Personally I would have run the batch program once with empty kiln and monitored the temperatures, just to confirm that my programming was correct and that the kiln behaved nicely (in another post I wrote about my friend's kiln which does not seem to control the temperature very well).

When you have programmed it it is saved under the program number you chose (P01 - P04), and you can just run that again.  Every time you have to confirm each setting (ramp, temp, hold).

Good luck.....it doesn't bite 

[Redhotsal]

You can anneal your beads from cold. Put them in the kiln and set the program. You want the temperature to go up at around 150 degrees per hour (that's very cautious but it means your beads won't break due to thermal shock).

You want to get up to about 520C so it will take around three to four hours to get there. (so your first "Ramp" is RA1 - which will be 150 degrees per hour).

THen you want to HOLD this for around an hour depending on how big your beads are. Very big beads should be about 90minutes but if you are 15mm and less in bead size an hour will be plenty.

Then you can come back down very SLOWLY so your second ramp down RA2 will be around 70 degrees per hour. Let this come down until you are past 400 degrees C and then you can basically ramp down at full speed or simply turn the kiln off.

You can put your beads into the kiln either on or off their mandrels. If you leave them on make sure you have the doors as closed as you can. It's probably better to take them off their mandrels when you batch anneal - i.e. when you anneal from cold.

You can anneal your beads as soon as they are made - instead of putting them into your fibre blanket to cool down you set your kiln to sit at the annealling temp (520C) and put the hot bead directly into the kiln. THen at the end of your session you soak the beads for about an hour at 520 and then gently ramp down. This is hot annealling or garaging, as some people refer to it.

[BubblyJ]

Hi Julie HB & Redhotsal,

Thank you both for this fantastic info - it makes it really easy for me now - I think I wll take your advice and run the kiln empty plus it will let me get used to how it works.....I really appreciate your help and I will let you know how I get on