Torches - Bulk Gas - Hothead alternative ?

[Carl Martin]

Having had a go on a very proffessional set up yesterday at the Hampshire meet (MKII). Oxycon bulk propane and an bench mounted torch (minor). With previous discussions with Kay on my own torch setup for Silversmithing (propane with naturally drawn air) she thought that my torch may well be upto the task. Well I am very pleased to say I had a play today and my own torch setup does infact melt glass pretty damn quick, probably not as quick as the oxycon setup but only very marginally slower, for me this is bl***y good news. I know there is a lot of talk about hotheads and the expense of MAPP gas and baby cyclinders, So this could be a big step forward for those that are not aware of a far cheaper method of bulk gas without the expense and being only marginally slower than the oxycon setup.
Has anyone else run this method ?

My torch set up is a Bullfinch with three interchangeable nozzles for increasing or decreasing flame thus also temperature, mine happily worked with the middle sized nozzle without any effort. 3 mtres of hose, regulator and 3.9Kg propane. I made a bracket to attach torch to bench safely.
For the entire setup (not inc gas) £63.00 trade price to me. Which in my book is damn good value to operate an efficient system on less expensive Bulk Gas.It is slightly nosier than the oxycon but not by much certainly no where near the noise of a hothead.

Has anyone got any thoughts on this ?

What it means is to operate safely I only have to get an extractor unit , some bead release and 4 ton of glass to practice with.

[garishglobes]

I once tried a plumber's torch to melt glass. It was much more efficient than the HH, but much dirtier! The thing about a HH is that it is designed to take maximum oxygen from the air, meaning that the flame it produces is not impossibly reducing. You might find the Bullfinch's flame is too reducing and thus leaves scum on the glass.
If you don't, then fab!!!

[Hamilton Taylor]

Have you tried working coloured glass in this flame?
Particularly colours prone to reduction; 236 dark turquoise is the obvious example.
Although I've never tried gas&air mix on anything but a hothead, I've spoken to some who have; problems they describe include discolouration of clears and transparents attributed (not necessarily accurately) to incomplete fuel combustion, and unwanted reduction effects in reduction-prone colours.
It's my understanding that the hothead was originally designed to overcome these issues specifically through a unique gas-air mixing baffle arrangement which ensured more complete combustion resulting in a hotter and cleaner flame. Perhaps your Bullfinch burns equally efficiently. I'm interested to hear more about the tests you are making.

Regards,

Sean


edited to say: Curse double-posting-in-a-hurry!

[Lush!]

3 mtres of hose, regulator and 3.9Kg propane. I made a bracket to attach torch to bench safely.
For the entire setup (not inc gas) £63.00 trade price to me. Which in my book is damn good value to operate an efficient system on less expensive Bulk Gas.

No flashback arrestor?

I know there is a fair bit of debate as to whether this is actually necessary, but I thought I'd mention it!

[hollergrafik]

Carl there is a rod of turquoise opaque glass in the pot, give that a go.

[helbels]

Hi Carl

Try making the opaque turquoise into a bead in the normal way.  If your torch is overly reducing, you will find that bits of it go silvery-murky (not a good thing).  Even a Hothead is slightly reducing, but in an ideal world you want that turquoise to stay a nice blue colour with no odds bits.

Hope that helps

Helen x

[metaltedgrrl]

I once tried a plumber's torch to melt glass. It was much more efficient than the HH, but much dirtier! The thing about a HH is that it is designed to take maximum oxygen from the air, meaning that the flame it produces is not impossibly reducing. You might find the Bullfinch's flame is too reducing and thus leaves scum on the glass.
If you don't, then fab!!!

Me too - all my first attempts were done on a plumbers torch, I got the hothead a few weeks back at the Big Bead Show...then found out it's almost impossible to get hold of mapp gas anymore.  Thanks to some technical advice from the lovely ladies here and the technical know-how of my gas fitter brother in law, I managed to convert to bulk fuel for around £80 all in, including a 13kg gas bottle and filling... I do have a flashback arrestor, purely for safety reasons, I don't think it wise to take ANY risks unnecessarily, it only cost about £14 anyways!
The hothead is great, but for some reason when using silvered glasses and Vetrofond clear, the clear always goes 'smoky' - anyone got any ideas/recommendations for a better clear?

[hollergrafik]

Carls torch will be a no then Tried an opaque turquoise bead and it came out a not so lovely over reduced rust red.

[Dragonfire Glass]

Hi Carl

Try making the opaque turquoise into a bead in the normal way.  If your torch is overly reducing, you will find that bits of it go silvery-murky (not a good thing).  Even a Hothead is slightly reducing, but in an ideal world you want that turquoise to stay a nice blue colour with no odds bits.

Hope that helps

Helen x

My turquoise usually goes silvery and is removed with cilit bang 

[Carl Martin]

Back to the drawing board for me then - ho hum. Sean you were right too much of an oxidising flame yucky tourquise.
However if you don't try these things you never get anywhere. 

[helbels]

Dee (Metaltedgrlll)

Your clear shouldn't be going smokey on your Hothead - I've had no problems with mine at all (and I've tried Effetre, Vetrofond and Lauscha).  Try working a bit further out from your blue cone - if you go too close to the tip of the torch you get sooty streaks.

Helen x

[jobead]

I find turquoise is a b**gger to get right on a hot head too in fact anything blue is tricky


Jo

[helbels]

Yep, I got red streaks on green the other day