Inaccurate Paragon

[Lee - Kilncare]

Now I'm not interested in getting into a slanging match with Robin or Paragon kilns, not at all. This is just a post to correct a few inaccurate claims on the Paragon.co.uk web site that.

I have mentioned them to Robin and I'm sure he will address them. He had Kilncare under his list of trade names which I didn't want and he took it off for me.
Unfortuantely, those who have already read them may not read them again so I hope that at least some may see this post.

On Paragon.co.uk the claim
"The Fusion 14 and Fusion 16 are more versatile than the KilnCare HobbyFuser Midi and HobbyFuser respectively: they get 95°C hotter, they're larger and they cost less."

The Fusion 14 is larger than the Midi but, when you add the fibre lid to the Paragon (it says on Paragons own promotional video that" if you want a dust free chamber you can have a fibre lid". The standard lid is brick.) It isn't cheaper, the Midi is almost £100 cheaper. The Midi and Hobbyfuser have standard fibre lids.

The Hobbyfuser is bigger than the Fusion 16 and, when you add the fibre lid to the Paragon, the Hobbyfuser is also cheaper by almost £100.

"they get 95°C hotter" The Paragons do not get 95c hotter. They are cooler. The Paragons maximum temperature is 925c where as the Midi and Hobbyfuser get to 950c.

It is difficult to compare kiln stands as the Paragon is purely a kiln rest where as our stand is very much a bench for the kiln, with a central storage shelf.

"Compared to the KilnCare BeadCube, the BlueBird is over four times wider inside and has a built-in digital programmer. The Bead Cube has a separate controller box on a separate stand, with extra cables, and is more expensive"

Wrong. The Bead Cube is £435 almost £200 cheaper than the Paragon.co.uk website.

It is flattering to be mentioned on other websites but it is better if it is fair and accurate. There are other references to us on Paragon.co.uk but as they are insinuations, it is difficult to address then without going down a "matter of opinion" route which gets no-one no-where.

Like I say, not at all am I bitching here. I would just like to put people straight that may not go back after Robin has corrected the Paragon site and so may have the wrong ideas about our products.

Thanks to our friends who have pointed stuff out to us...you know who you are

Thanks,

[Lee - Kilncare]

A quick note..... Robin has just replied and has begun to adjust or remove.
It was a friendly reply as was the request so thanks for that Robin.

[julieHB]

Me likes friendly!! 

[♥♥Tan♥♥]

Yes, lets not get into this again. Kiln info always appreciated

[kerensky]

Glad you managed to get this sorted Lee.

On another note (sorry for hijacking this thread) Can you tell me Lee,  if I were to put activated charcoal in my kiln would it damage my element ?

Cheers

Kerensky.

[helbels]

This post is in no way intended to be critical of Robin at Paragon,  who sounds like he's being sensible about his revisions - more of a general comment on Marketing Tactics used by companies in general:

Competition is generally a good thing, but I tend to feel that when different manufacturers are promoting their products they really should stick to promoting the features and benefits of their own offerings, rather than trying to compare with other manufacturers, which is time consuming, sometimes derogatory and ultimately isn't all that helpful to prospective buyers anyway.

If sellers in general stuck to pointing out the the features and benefits of their own products, rather than trying to compare across the board, they can still help buyers to make an informed choice.  

So for instance, rather than saying "The Beadcube is smaller than Kiln XXX", which isn't terribly helpful to buyers why not say something like:

"Kiln XXX offers great value for money as it enables 50 mandrels to be easily accommodated. This compares favourably with other kilns in a similar price bracket, and it can be used for firing PMC, glass and enamels." (or whatever).  

or, from the other side of the fence:

The small size of the beadcube makes is handy for small firings, economical on electricity and enables it to be easily stored after use". (Or whatever).

Buyers are sensible enough to figure out for themselves what they need - sellers just need to help them understand the features they are offering.  

I personally bought a Beadcube PRECISELY because it's small and I live in a tiny flat.  A friend of mine opted for the Paragon SC2 as she needed something bigger and wanted to be able to do a few other things in it, and space was no issue for her.  I'm sure they are both fine kilns, and at the end of the day  both of us managed to figure out what we needed without comparisons being made by sellers, and I'm sure a lot of folks could do the same.

[Lee - Kilncare]

I couldn't agree with that post more. Our site does nothing but bull our stuff up to ridiculous height

[Lee - Kilncare]

Glad you managed to get this sorted Lee.

On another note (sorry for hijacking this thread) Can you tell me Lee,  if I were to put activated charcoal in my kiln would it damage my element ?

Cheers

Kerensky.

Don't shout at me Karenski, what kiln have you got??

[Fired Silver]

Kerensky

I've used the carbon a lot - its a pain in the bum!  I have to hoover my kiln out after each firing.  However, I know of someone else who has absolutely no mess left in her kiln 

There are alternatives now that don't require the carbon, and I'm doing some testing myself on these at the moment but they are supposed to be good, and they have much shorter firing times.

Becci
x

[kerensky]

Interesting Becky? Don't hold me in suspense for too long please. I  put my charcoal in a little Stainless Steel pot, so far no spillage - but just nudge and it would be all over....

Lee - I have one your lovely Pink ones Darlin......

[Fired Silver]

Interesting Becky? Don't hold me in suspense for too long please. I  put my charcoal in a little Stainless Steel pot, so far no spillage - but just nudge and it would be all over....

Lee - I have one your lovely Pink ones Darlin......

I've got Art Clay Copper and Prometheus Bronze, desperate to have a play with them!  The final straw came when I dropped my charcoal pot on the way to the sink 

[Zeldazog]

Couldn't agree more with Hels post.  The impression I get when I read stuff like that, especially if its one sided (in this case, Paragon comparing to Kilncare, but KC big up only themselves).... well, I get the impression that companies fear the opposition is in a stronger position and so need to find ways of showing how much better than them they are.

I am sure plenty of you remember a few years back when there was the big sky vs virgin battle, and all of sky's adverts seem to simply read "we're cheaper compared to virgin" but they were inaccurate because they weren't comparing like of like.  Right irritated me!

As I we don't actually know how many people might drop by for advice - it was actually looking for kiln information that I originally happened upon the forum, so I think you're right to correct it here.  Not everybody is like me and goes back and forth from site to site and back over them all again to make comparisons (yes, I DID to a comparison table with the pros and cons of every potential kiln!)

[Lee - Kilncare]

Glad you managed to get this sorted Lee.

On another note (sorry for hijacking this thread) Can you tell me Lee,  if I were to put activated charcoal in my kiln would it damage my element ?

Cheers

Kerensky.

Hell no.....the element in the Pinkie is so robust it is actually submersable in water!!!!!!!! The outer sheath of the element in inconel and the element it's self is safe from the chamber atmosphere completely.

I presume the idea is to produce an oxygen deprived atmosphere, will you manage that with the gap across the bottom of the doors or are you planning on blocking that up??

[kerensky]

[/quote]

I presume the idea is to produce an oxygen deprived atmosphere, will you manage that with the gap across the bottom of the doors or are you planning on blocking that up??
[/quote]

Good question that Lee - I am indeed doing that, and so far so good - but then again my fringe is in quite good nick, and there's no howling gail near my kiln from an open door.

Thanks for your reply - Gotta love the build quality of a great British Product eh, how could I ever doubt you?   

[Robin]

hi

i have made changes and make others as i discover them.

my two main sites, www.electrickilns.co.uk and www.paragonkilns.co.uk run to around 110 paper pages each representing nearly 100 different kilns - they must be the largest on-line kiln resources in the uk by a long way. some pages were written in 2008 when prices were different. it's a major task keeping them fresh. i really do try to get every fact right, and mistakes were just mistakes.

it's interesting how prices vary for 'almost the same thing' - without mentioning another name (and it's not KilnCare) a paragon sc2 lookalike is currently retailing at £240 more. should i mention it? yes or no.

crediting KilnCare as trademark was a courtesy, just as we acknowldege Art Clay, PMC, Paragon, Prometheus, GlasClay, BronzClay ... and all trademarks.

so lee, i'm working my way through them. please accept my apology.

rob