Skutt Hotstart or Fusion 7 or...

[ruby]

Hi. Just joined today after having lurked for a few days and looking for opinions/advice.

I've been doing a glass fusing course, and I'd now like to buy my own kiln to fuse at home, but there's just too much choice! I think I've narrowed it down to the Skutt Hotstart Pro or the Fusion 7 as they are about the size I'm looking for, and the absolute maximum I can afford (would love a Hobbyfuser midi, but funds won't allow, so these seem like the best alternatives).

I'm really looking for views on the two kilns...are they reliable, fairly cheap to run, easy to use? Also, I've read some of Lee's comments about kilns with elements/firebricks in the lid, and wondered whether both of these could have the sort of problems he's mentioned. If you use either of these kilns, would you recommend them (and even better, if you've used both, which did you prefer?)

Sorry for all the questions. It's all very new and a bit scary (but very exciting too!).

[sublimekate]

Sorry I can't help you Ruby, that's all french to me  but I'm sure someone will be able to help.

Nice to meet you though. K x 

[ruby]

That's OK - it's probably me not making any sense!
Nice to meet you too.

[Zeldazog]

Ruby, I have the Hot Start Pro - can't comment on the Fusion, though I did look at them.

Don't want to put the kiss of death on my kiln, but so far, no problems!  Its cheap to run, but the Fusion probably is too (check out the power rating, that will give an indication of running costs).

Does the Fusion 7 have side elements as well? I can't remember what size that comes in - don't know if that would affect power consumption (or if it would just mean less juice going to top elements).  If it is, consider whether side elements could cause any hot spotting towards the edges?

What about the depth of the two kilns, is that the same?  I didn't realise til after I got mine that I can't use my large stainless steel Ikea bowl for slumping, its just a bit too deep.  It is a huge bowl though!

Think about top temperature.  I'd love to do a pot melt, but the Skutt doesn't quite go high enough, I don't think.  Does the Fusion go a bit higher?


The Skutt has the pre-programmed Glass Master controller, although to be honest, I put mine straight into professional where I set the program segments - I found it a very easy kiln to program though (although the glass master is programmed for Spectrum 96 I believe, and not Bullseye, but I could be wrong).



Top elements - I have had the odd bit of dust from the top bricks, and haven't had to replace an element so far, so I can't comment.

Other things to consider - if they are the same, price wise, what do you get for your money. My Skutt came with a two year guarantee, shelf, stilts, roll of paper and kiln wash (I think) - do you get the same extras for the same money?

Kiln choice - minefield!!

Welcome to FHF

Dawn
X

[ruby]

Thanks Dawn.
To be honest, I do have a gut feeling the the Hotstart might be the one for me, but I'm not really sure what I'm basing it on! I think possibly the fact that it's European rather than American makes me think that it might meet our safety standards more closely than the Fusion, but I could be completely wrong!

The depth is something I hadn't really considered though. I've been checking the diameter/width, but never thought about the height of moulds, so thanks for making me think. Also, I hadn't realised that the programmes were set for Spectrum glass - I'll be using Bullseye, but hopefully it wouldn't be too difficult to tweak. As for pot melts, to be honest, I'd never even heard about them 'til today, but now I've looked a bit more on this site, it looks very interesting ( I am glad I found this forum! )

Aaargh. So much to think of!

[Zeldazog]

Ruby, I could be wrong about the Spectrum thing, I would have to dig out my instructions, but I seem to remember seeing the System 96 logo in there somewhere.

But it IS really easy to tweak, I can't remember off top of my head, but if you can't tweak the glass master pre programmed, I am sure there's an intermediate - but programming really was a doddle (after I had converted the read out to centigrade).

And I can't say for sure that a pot melt isn't possible, but I think it needs about a an extra 25 centigrade than the Skutt can give - but maybe possible with an extra long soak?

That said, I wouldn't base buying a kiln on one process that I would like to try out - I might never do it again!

I have to say, I think the Skutt is of fantastic build quality - I can't compare with the Fusion, as I have never seen one, but even my brother was impressed, and he's very difficult to please.

I did think it was USA though?  Wherever its from, I got mine at Warm Glass who sell it with a two year warranty which they themselves cover, that helped me decide.  That, and the fact it was in the sale!


Anyway, good luck with your decision - where are you based Ruby - if you're anywhere near the midlands, you're welcome to come and see one in the flesh!

Dawn

[Hamilton Taylor]

We use 2 Skutt Hotstart Pros, almost every day, and have had them for about 18 months - no problems at all, so far, touch wood.
I have not done an actual pot melt, but have done a bit of a pile-of-glass-extra-hot-fuse-to-4mm-puddle, and conclude that, with care, you could do pot melts, or at least screen melts, in this kiln.

HTH,


Sean

[Lee - Kilncare]

Both kilns are American and in light of this will have similar electrical standards.

My advice would be to go with the one that gives you the most confidence with regards to after sales service.

Problems may be few and far between but, if there is a problem, you need to be assured that you will be looked after.

[ruby]

Thanks everyone. I don't know where I got the idea that Skutt weren't American (thought I'd seen somewhere that they were German!).

It does seem that people are happy with their Hotstarts. And I know that Warm-glass are a relaible company, so hopefully the fact that they deal with the warranty themselves is a good thing.

Thanks for the offer to come and see your kiln Zeldazog. Unfortunately, I'm in West Yorkshire, so a bit too far away, but it's nice to know that people are so helpful on here.

[ruby]

Well..I've ordered one!

I've decided to go for the Hotstart. I've had a look at a copy of the manual online, and it seems to be pretty easy to follow (even for me!). And the positive feedback from people on here is a plus.

So, thank you everyone...can't wait now...

[Sulis (Hazel)]

Yipeee! I hope you have lots of fun together, you and your new kiln  I'm also waiting for a new kiln - the suspense is nearly killing me, but as I can't be in until Friday for deilvery I have to wait - gulp! I've ordered mine from Lee. We are blessed with some choice on glass kilns these days.

[Chameleon]

I have done pot melts in my SC2 ... it took HOURS but it happened so Im sure you can do it in a fusing kiln. 

Ruby & Hazel, new kilns,  Im jealous of both of you  look forward to seeing what you both make

[Sulis (Hazel)]

Becky - LOL, I've only ever posted one pic - you know me, I'm terrible at showing.  Promise though this time!!

Ruby - I will if you will 

[Zeldazog]

I have done pot melts in my SC2 ... it took HOURS but it happened so Im sure you can do it in a fusing kiln. 

Becky it wasn't about what *type* of kiln it was, it's about it's max temperature.  An SC2 can go to 1000 C (IIRC) - Hot Start Pro is a fusing kiln, but only goes to a max 870 C - Lee's Hobbyfuser/midi is also a fusing kiln, but goes higher, I am sure.

What sort of glass did you use when you did yours Becky?  I know Spectrum System 96 process temperatures are different to Bullsye (about 25 fanrenheit lower for Sys 96) - a little bit lower again and we'd get pot melt out of a Hot Start yet!

[bluefairy]

Only just seen this thread - I too narrowed it down to HotStart or Fusion, some gut instinct told me to go with HotStart......and I love it.  It's like a new member of the family. Quite frankly, my husband is feeling left out!  I keep talking to it and stroking it, is this normal?!?!? (What can i say, I was a deprived child). Maybe the novelty will wear off one day! I think you're right Dawn, I think it is programmed around Spectrum glass, however, I use Bullseye glass, and have had consistently great results, even with the basic "press and go" schedules that are already programmed in, with no need for tweaking.  Same as Dawn, to be fair, I can't really compare because I've never used a Fusion, but all i can say is, I think you'll be pleased with your decision, it is bloomin great!