Bottled oxygen?

[furrybert]

Hi everyone,
I'm currently trying to decide what setup I'd like to start saving towards.  I'm currently using the hothead and although it's been a good intro to lampworking, I'm finding the constant switching of bottles to keep the pressure at a usable amount quite tiresome

I'm thinking of getting a carlisle mini cc because I'm pretty sure I'll be sticking to beadwork for now and therefore won't need one of the really big torches.

Trying to decide between bottled oxy and an oxycon.  I know that an oxycon is more cost effective in the long run, but I was wondering if those of you who use bottled oxygen could answer a silly question for me:  where the heck do you get the oxygen from?  I've been googling for hours, and I may well be using the wrong search terms, but I can't find anywhere that supplies it! 

[Ancasta]

I'm another newbie on a HH, but I ditched MAPP to go to bulk propane. So much easier!

I'm a new owner of a Bethlehem Minnow (which I've currently mothballed) and have been researching bottled gas as I can't afford an oxycon at the moment. You will need to look up BOC who are a national supplier of bottled oxygen, but I have found a local supplier who charges much less what BOC charge.

Like you I've found Googling useless. Instead I rang some bottled gas suppliers who told me about my local oxygen supplier. A large bottle (shoulderheight) is cheaper than a small one, costing £8 to refill. The smallest costs £15!! Dip into your yellow pages and look up your local 'bottled gas' suppliers. Give them a ring and they will help you.

The only drawback to this is that some companies charge an annual rent for the use of the bottle.

[furrybert]

Cheers for that, I'll give the old yellow pages a dust off :-)

It's probably all pipe dreams at the moment, as I don't yet have a permanent place for my lampworking.  And although setting everything up and putting it away each session is a pain, at least it's doable with the hothead.  With a bigger torch and gas canisters I can see this being much more  of a problem.

Of course, this is just me making excuses because I don't want to think how long it will take to save up for all the equipment But I look at the tutorials on youtube of people using bigger torches and that lovely long perfect blue flame looks very tempting indeed!

[Mary]

Bottled oxy isn't all that cheap to set up. You need the right hose, regulator, flashback arrestor, as well as a way to chain it to the wall, none of which you need for an oxy-con.

Bulk propane for your HH isn't cheap to set up either, but you'll use all the gear when you do go dual fuel, so it's a good stepping stone.

[Redhotsal]

If you try your local tool hire place they should be able to tell you who your local oxygen supplier is. My advice is avoid BOC - they're really expensive: £80 yearly rental for "W" size cylinder, £30 per delivery and £15 for a refill. (This was a couple of years ago) Bottled oxygen is a hazard so you need to have a "licence" for it and you will need to securely restrain it to prevent it toppling. In reality this licence is just a bit of paper. Some supplier bother, some don't. My experience of BOC was that they were so disorganised it made me wonder about the whole company. The office never seemed to know where the delivery driver was at and he would often show up a an odd or really inconvenient time (if at all!). Some of the drivers are lovely (they were usually as old as the hills and I would feel guilty about them having to lift the cylnders) but one I had (a youngster!) was as surly as hell and expect all 5'2" of me to manhandle a five foot cylinder the forty yards plus steps to my shed. They are incredibly heavy - even the small ones.

I switched to Energas - who were a bit cheaper than BOC. You only really get savings from these guys if you use a lot of oxygen.

Have I put you off yet? 

Given the choice between bottled oxygen and an oxycon in terms of ease of use and convenience take the damn oxycon every time - unless your hobby is shot putting and deciphering call centre instructions. Oh yes, and spending money. Expect to part with loads with bottled oxo - at least you've paid for your oxycon in a one off payment. You'll also need as Mary said a two stage oxygen regulator, a flashback arrestor and if it's BOC one of those black square key spanner things to turn the cylinder on. If there's someone in your house who uses oxygen anyway - an engineer or a welder, for example then it makes perfect sense to use bottled oxygen but I would seriously avoid it.

It's true you get more flame with bottled oxygen but as you hear it hissing out through the torch you can't help but think about how expensive it is and you soon learn to shut off your torch even for a second or two if you aren't using it to save the oxygen. And what exactly IS this obsession with big flames on this forum? Unless you want to make stonking huge beads you don't need a huge flame. Seriously.

If you think that changing cylinders on a hothead is a pain don't even consider the bottled oxygen route! Anyway - while you're on those little Mapp cylinders you could be saving stacks of dosh by going to bulk propane. So much cheaper - so much easier. In the meantime try dunking your cylinder in a bucket of warm water - that will take the pressure back up and negate the need to change cylinders.

[June]

I agree with you Sal, despite being on bottled oxy myself.  We went down this route as DH has a play, too, and we didn't have enough money or space for two oxycons.  We use Energas. You have a yearly rental (which is dependent on the size of bottle you have, though you can get a refund for unused months if you change your mind on this), and there's either a collection or delivery change (delivery charge obviously quite a bit more than the collection charge) and then the price of the oxy itself.  We've got a fairly big bottle (must be 5" ish) and that's just about lasted a month, but that's only torching on average 2-3 hours, say 3 times a week, so it is not a cheap option.  I can see me getting an oxycon yet !  HTH !

[Carol]

I've been unable to afford an oxycon too, so I'm on bottled oxy for now. I was very lucky though, I managed to acquire an empty bottle from someone who wanted rid of it, so no rental charge. Hubby had all the other bits & pieces lying around (from various welding equipment), and I get the bottle filled up at my local scrappy, cost £25 (has to be very carefully transported though, tied securely to the trailer). I don't torch a lot, if I did I'd definitely get an oxycon. I reckon I get maybe 40odd hours from 1 bottle, if you were a full-time beadmaker it'd get quite expensive on the bottled stuff. Good luck whatever you decide to do!

[Ancasta]

Have PM'd you 

[furrybert]

Thanks so much everyone for all of your help
I am a total coward and have currently been put off converting the HH to bulk gas (but a couple more months of this ridiculous cost will probably get my nerve back up)

Considering the weight and expense of the bottled gas, I think I will probably end up going for the oxycon, but I've got a long while to decide yet.
It's certainly not a hobby that you can just take up on a whim, is it?

[Soo]

I'm a real scaredy-cat myself when it comes to my personal safety. However, going to bulk propane on your HH is really easy if you buy a kit from Martin at Tuffnell Glass, everything you need for (£118 from memory) and you save a fortune. Plus it's all still usable if you do decide to go dual fuel.

I was far more scared by reading that oxygen tanks are explosive if you get oil anywhere near them (even oil from your fingerprints ... ) That put me off going dual fuel for a while until I read up on oxygen converters.

[glassworks]

one "trick" with bottled oxy is to turn the regulator right down - far lower than the metal working guys are used to... we use a pressure of only about 1 bar or even less.. the logic here is that it is VERY easy to use more oxygen than you need if the pressure is higher - remember that torches are designed (generally anyway) for low pressure gases.. at the murano even i cut our oxy use by 75% simply by lowering the supply pressure at the regulator - with absolutely no effect or complaints... basically, unlike with too much propane, too much oxygen simply does not "show up" in a different flame... even a tiny amount of too much oxy at high pressure very quickly empties tanks!..

and, naturally, the most cunning tip of all is to be absolutely sure to TURN THE TANK OFF at the end of each session... i forgot once or twice in murano and found that a significant amount of oxy just bleeds out of the system overnight, despite having a professionally installed and tested system setup there...