Bluebird or SC3?

[Black Heart Beads]

Hi have the SC3 as I thought I would get into fusing one day and wanted the extra hight. But for now I just do beads and recently a bit of PMC. Mainly I only have a couple of hours at a time to make beads but on the rare occasions I get a full day I do find the lack of a space of a pain. For batch annealing its got loads of space.

When I eventually find the time to do fusing I am sure it will come into it's own again.

[Lee - Kilncare]

Lee, I'm guessing that is how they are. From the clay-king website it says "The BlueBird XL has durable insulating firebricks in the roof, walls and floor. The element is seated in pinless grooves in the roof."

Looking at it, an idiot (ie - me) could probably manage to stick a mandrel into that just as easily if not easier than I could already with my caldera and the bead collar.

I know in both instances it is highly unlikely, but I am pretty cack-handed at times.. 

Emma

Yes I've read that too mate, I know I have said this before, but for a country that is allegedly so litigation addicted I am amazed at how lapse their electrical safety laws are.

[glassworks]

i have an xl here, and i have to say that there is no way i can see that you could even willingly get a mandrel in there... the slot behind which the elements are fitted is WAY to narrow for the elements to fit through, unless they melt - in which case you probably have other issues to worry about!...

we're happy they are safe enough, and they certainly outperform the standard bluebird, but they are big beasts to be fair!... are there any kilns out there that have a circuit switch on the bead door?.. i haven't found a bead door type kiln that interrupts the heating when you open the bead door, but i am sure there must be one.. obviously the paragon's that have exposed elements and opening lids are all fitted with safety cutouts on their doors...

[Lee - Kilncare]

Hi Quint again, I suppose the next question would be what kind of door switch but then that's a different question all together 

I'm sorry for being a little negative it's just that I have seen so many kilns from across the pond that are nowhere near the grade, perhaps I shouldn't generalise. Apologies. They can't all be bad eggs.

Anyway, here's a question for my own curiosity. If the elements won't come out of the groove in the brick how do you change them? Like I say, that's just me being nosey

[sea-thistle]

I have an SC2 Kiln which i use at present for Glass Fusing. i am very pleased with mine i've had it about 4 years now. The only problem i have is that you can't get to shelves of glass fused at the same time. the top shelf, the glass is mostly tack fused or not fused at all. !! ::)So only use one shelf.

I am going to be making beads shortly and wondered whether this kiln is going to be any use? also if it is, how do I anneal the beads in there?Do I have to put them in something? or can they go onto kiln washed shelf? I am thinking of buying a bigger kiln , so I can fuse larger pieces of glass, panels dishes etc. I was thinking of a Paragon Fusion 7 or 8 . The kiln has to work off a  household 13 amp fuse.

hope someone can advise me

[Lee - Kilncare]

I'm sorry but it would be best if one of the beaders off here were to give you advice on the beading.

I am the kiln chap and as such what I can do is recommend a kiln.

If you are looking at the fusion 7 or 8 then please consider our Hobbyfuser or Hobbyfuser Midi, they are far superior kilns in everyway, designed for glass fusing (not a modified ceramics kiln) and built here in the U.K.
Take a look
http://www.kilncare.co.uk/kilns_glass_fusingandslumping_hobbyfuserandhobbyfusermidi.html

Also I'm sure regular readers on here know of my dislike of having bricks above glass and elements set into bricks.

[Josephine]

Hobbyfusers are really good, well built with good even heat, and the controllers are really easy to understand. If fusing is your main thing and you want to be able to some bigger dishes and panels.....and you would be happy to batch anneal beads then I am sure you would be happy with it I a usinng mine at the moment to batch anneal beads until I get a new bead annealing kiln. I prefer annealing as I go along otherwise I might just stick with the Hobbyfuser, but you can't keep opening and closing the lid to add each bead as it lets out too much heat and the temp goes up and down too much.

[sea-thistle]

Thank you Lee and Josephine for your advice! I will certainly look into  the Kilncare range.

[Dizzy Di]

Hi,
I got my new bluebird about 5 weeks ago, from Martin, its great and plenty of space,  I do have a J14 Paragon for batch annealing and fusing, as when i first looked at kilns it was the largest I could find that used house hold electrics, without calling in the local electrician.
Does the hobbyfuser work on household electric without the need of an electrician?
Dianne

[flowerjasper]

I have an SC2 Kiln which i use at present for Glass Fusing. i am very pleased with mine i've had it about 4 years now. The only problem i have is that you can't get to shelves of glass fused at the same time. the top shelf, the glass is mostly tack fused or not fused at all. !! ::)So only use one shelf.

I am going to be making beads shortly and wondered whether this kiln is going to be any use? also if it is, how do I anneal the beads in there?Do I have to put them in something? or can they go onto kiln washed shelf? I am thinking of buying a bigger kiln , so I can fuse larger pieces of glass, panels dishes etc. I was thinking of a Paragon Fusion 7 or 8 . The kiln has to work off a  household 13 amp fuse.

hope someone can advise me

i have a SC2, i batch anneal, ie cool the beads in vermiculite then thread the beads back on to manrels when i have enough,
i got some wire from b+q, bent it into a square  "U"shape (Flat bottom u!),
put it on a ceramic tile in my kiln, then put in my bead kebabs, i can get loads of beads in at one time,
programmed the kiln from a thread on FH,
seems grand!
i do tend to make smallish beads tho!

[Lee - Kilncare]

Does the hobbyfuser work on household electric without the need of an electrician?
Dianne

Yes pal, the Hobbyfuser Midi and the larger Hobbyfuser both plug into a standard 3-pin 13 amp socket.

[Lee - Kilncare]

i have an xl here, and i have to say that there is no way i can see that you could even willingly get a mandrel in there... the slot behind which the elements are fitted is WAY to narrow for the elements to fit through, unless they melt - in which case you probably have other issues to worry about!...

we're happy they are safe enough, and they certainly outperform the standard bluebird, but they are big beasts to be fair!... are there any kilns out there that have a circuit switch on the bead door?.. i haven't found a bead door type kiln that interrupts the heating when you open the bead door, but i am sure there must be one.. obviously the paragon's that have exposed elements and opening lids are all fitted with safety cutouts on their doors...

I have just got my first look at a Bluebird and once again my blood boils. The element IS accessable, there is no door switch and the design purpose of the kiln is to insert METAL rods into the kiln whilst it is running. Think about kilns for a second, they are considered one of the more dangerous pieces of electrical equipment around. Most kilns are designed to be loaded, closed then turned on. Turned off, opened then unloaded. A bead annealer is designed to be prodded about inside with metal rods whilst still running which, by my way of thinking, puts it up at the top end of risk kilns surely.

The element in the blubird is set into a groove into the roof brick and although I agree it will not come through, not yet anyway, it can definitely be touched by the mandrel in fault conditions. Let's say, the user is using a rod longer than usual, say 30cm or more, it is possible with a rod of this length that is can tip when the door is opened, it is then pointing towards the roof and so there is a chance that is could come into contact with the element.

Now this is the Bluebird not the XL so it maybe that the XL is powered differently, but, unless the Bluebird is now powered differently now, then, I'm afraid this is going to end in tears for someone, somewhere regrettably, be it a user or a supplier.

I am having to be very carefull what I post here, not from a legal point of view as I know the regs on what is allowed and what is not inside and out , but, from a "making myself look like a bitter Pratt" point of view .

I have made my feelings on this issue felt before and this one takes the biscuit!!!!!!

By the way mate, as far as I know, there are no bead annealers out there with door switches fitted to the bead door.

Remember the golden rule of corporate business, profit over safety everytime!!!!!!!!!

[Robin]

hi

the bluebird is only hot enough for bead annealing - 650C. the bluebird xl at 850 for beads, glass fusing,  and metal clays. the sc2/3 heats to 1095.

of course, don't poke any kiln with a metal rod. just as: don't get hot toast out of a toaster with a knife.

the earlier remark about paragon's illogical model names. it was meant to be a amusing, not helpful. for example: the janus 1613 is 16" x 13". the tnf66 is not 66". etc.

rather than be mystified you can call me at Electric Kilns (Paragon distributor) on 01929 477137. i'm happy to explain how kilns work and how to repair them. it's not difficult and, if you've not killed yourself with your toaster, you'll be ok with your kiln.

thx

rob

[beadysam]

I'd pretty much agree with the toaster comment. We are people that have to be very aware of safety at all times, using gas, hot tools,open flames, metals and molten glass.  We should be sensible enough to deal with a kiln that is maybe less than perfect.  However, once in a while we all let our guard down a little and accidents happen as my charred index finger will agree.   There is potential for injury or even death, but as long as we make an informed choice about our kilns and are fully aware of its downfalls and the possible occurence of something very nasty, I don't think this is anymore risky than buying a torch, a gas cylinder,  or even many other electrical appliances...    or maybe I'm just daft?

[glassworks]

my thoughts exactly...

this IS a hobby/obsession involving molten glass at the end of the day... collecting stamps is probably safer, but much less fun... common sense erring on the side of caution is our guide - and yet i STILL occasionally pick up 20mm boro rods at the wrong end while making marbles - ooooooooooooo.... aaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh!!!!!! but i am getting better about it - and i still have most all of all my digits!.. (if not my finger prints any more!!  )