Everything you needed to know about ETCHING

[Les]

My cooking would though

xx

[Mary]

I wondered when you mentioned Maplin, Roy, won't that be for etching circuit boards?

[beadmonkey]

Yes Mary; that is the stuff. I thought if it would etch copper then it would do glass as well . OK, I'm not too ashamed to say I failed my Chemistry O'level

Les, you must have gone to the same cookery school as my wife

Roy

[Redhotsal]

My cooking would though

Hehe!

Etch All is supposed to be safer than the long time "standard" glass etch - which is hydrofluoric acid (HF). HF is so agressive and nasty that it is possible to get the stuff to explode on contact with light (which is why is it kept in a dark bottle.)

Etch all and that blue pasty stuff you used to get before Etch All was imported contains ammonium bifluoride. This is supposed to be safer than HF. HF should be handled with EXTREME care and never ever without gloves. It will burn flesh and keep going unless it is neutralised with a strong alkali.

However, ammonium bifluoride will convert portions of the fluorides to HF when dissolved in water so although it is claimed to be safer than the old fashioned glass etchants I would still take great care with it.

You ought to neutralise it with Bicarb after you've etched. Any residual etchant left on the bead surface could act as a skin irritant if you were using the beads in jewellery. Don't forget the bead hole - which is a great harbourer of etchant, too. Clean it out thoroughly.

You won't get safety sheets with Etch-All as it is imported from the States and presumably - they don't have to adhere to COSH standards the same way as we have to. You SHOULD have a safety sheet with this stuff though as it is potentially very nasty. I have no idea why Etch-all seem to be able to get away with selling this stuff without a MSDS safety sheet.

You will find that you get varying results etch-wise according to the temperature of the fluid - this is why some people's beads etch quicker than others. It will etch very quickly as the temperature goes up.

Grandma - yes, cancer is a potential risk with many aspects of beadmaking. Not wanting to frighten the willies out of everyone, but I think perhaps your biggest potential threat is that really innocent looking bead release. In powder form it contains some very nasty and possibly carcinogenic repiratory irritants. Don't go breathing it in - get your beads off the mandrels under water. Keep your dust levels down. Be careful also with those fibre blankets and vermiculite. Avoid breathing any dust or fibres in from them and NEVER do enamels or fuming without GOOD ventilation and a respirator. That's a respirator NOT one of those white dust masks thingies.

(Puts wagging finger back in its box........) 

[Amber]

I just dangle my beads in the pot on a piece of tiger tail - should I be transferring it to another container? 

I also thought that my beads weren't etching...until I realised that you only see the effect once they're dry! All the time they're in the etching fluid the will still look shiny. This didn't actually occur to me until I was washing a wine glass with an etched stem and noticed that it was shiny when wet! 

[fionaess]

I keep all my etching paraphenalia in a big plastic tub, lined with kitchen roll.  I put the beads in a small plastic tub and pour the etching fluid over them - leave them for 10 minutes (or an occasional A&E shift if I'm having a particularly forgetful day) - then use a plastic tea strainer to pour the fluid back in the bottle.

Then all the beads go into a plastic jug and get thoroughly rinsed and rubbed under lots of cold running water, and dried off on a tea towel.

Thats basically what I do, except in place of a plastic tea strainer, I use a plastic funnel.. just because I've got one 

[mad bunny]

Washing with plenty of water should be enough, but a strong solution of bicarb helps neutralise the acid.

How much bicarb should you use?  ie half a pint of water and 2 teaspoons of bicarb for instance. 

I have got to try etching, the thought of it is driving me mad.  I wake up in the morning thinking about it.  I guess that's obsession. 

Please tell me i'm not the only one that has obsessive thoughts about glass and what we can do with it. LOL 

[clasicat]

Washing with plenty of water should be enough, but a strong solution of bicarb helps neutralise the acid.

How much bicarb should you use?  ie half a pint of water and 2 teaspoons of bicarb for instance. 

I have got to try etching, the thought of it is driving me mad.  I wake up in the morning thinking about it.  I guess that's obsession. 

Please tell me i'm not the only one that has obsessive thoughts about glass and what we can do with it. LOL 

Nah I'm just the same I' m itching to try etching ( that sounds weird lol ) but I only want a small pot I also dream about getting neat ends when I'm using my presses ...all I seem to do is dream about it  cos they never are lol

[Kaz]

Washing with plenty of water should be enough, but a strong solution of bicarb helps neutralise the acid.

How much bicarb should you use?  ie half a pint of water and 2 teaspoons of bicarb for instance. 

I have got to try etching, the thought of it is driving me mad.  I wake up in the morning thinking about it.  I guess that's obsession. 

Please tell me i'm not the only one that has obsessive thoughts about glass and what we can do with it. LOL 

About 2 teaspoons in a smallish receptacle should do it - you should be getting some fizzing when you put the acid coated bead in. I then swish them around a bit before dunking in boiling water with some washing up liquid in. I then pour the acid back into the container and then pour the bicarb solution into the container that had the acid to neutralise it. I also wipe the outside of the etching solution container with the bicarb solution.
BTW waking up thinking about anything to do with beads is perfectly normal, so don't expect to get over it!
Kaz

[KatheL]

Hi all,

I am newbie in this group, and just read through this thread and I am getting goosebumbs reading about how this etching stuff is used!
First of all, there is a safety-data sheet on one of the etching products used by beadmakers:

http://householdproducts.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/household/brands?tbl=brands&id=1029001

To cut a long story short: the two chemicals used in etching solutions are supposed to be milder than Hydroflouric acid. Still, when mixed in a watery solution, they form a weak solution of HF.

The problem with HF is, that it is very, very dangerous, even in weak solutions. That just makes the effect taking longer.
Apart from the immediate risk of direct contact with the stuff, the worst is the fumes. Your body absorb those, not only through the respitory system, but by you scin as well.
And you cannot rinse it off with water or anything else. It may look like you washed it off, but the damage is done, the HF is working its way through the tissue and will end up in your bones which it will soften and degrade.
The process is irreversible, even if you get medical treatment right away.
Since we are working with weak solutions, it may take years before the effect shows - soft, brittle bones. Not fun.
There are rules about Health and Safety sheets, but not all countries follow them. By EU legislation, Health and safety sheets has to be available on request by all sellers, meaning as a customer you have to ASK for it. Many sellers "forget" to tell their customers, and don't have the info available.
In Denmark HF is banned, and I was surpriced to find etching fluid being sold. But as often seen, sellers didn't know (or turned the blind eye) about safety. It seems there is a gab in the law, so the chemicals used are not labeled as dangerous as they are.
I have discussed this with a friend of mine who is a lector in chemistry at the university, she was uphauled that such stuff is on the market at all.
According to chemistry student rules, and workers safety organisation it has to be treated like this:
Personel is to be clad in etchproof "spacesuits", full body protection with external air supply.
The etching is done in a fume cabinet, with a completely sealed air system.
Only a very few companies have got the equipment, the special education and the special license to use the stuff, and they are being monitored very closely.
If you want more details, search the net for health risc on Hydroflouric acid, and just remember that a weaker solution does the same but  takes longer (years) to show the effect.
This is a true horror story!
And once and for all - no other acids but HF will attach glass! so the only alternative is a mechanical surface treatment.

I use a polishing tumbler, with siliconoxide grid 400, it takes 24 hours to tumble a portion of glass, but is completely harmless.
Alternatively a glassblowing cabinet is on my wishing list - no way I am having any etching stuff on my property in anyway what so ever!
Even though I am used to play with chemicals, that is the sort of thing goldsmiths do....

Kathe; Denmark

[Margram]

I've just seen this and read the report - very scary indeed!! I might get rid of my etching fluid on that basis - I had no idea it was so dangerous

[Blue Box Studio]

Avoid breathing any dust or fibres in from them and NEVER do enamels or fuming without GOOD ventilation and a respirator. That's a respirator NOT one of those white dust masks thingies.

(Puts wagging finger back in its box........) 

Hopefully not a daft question - is there a specific type of respirator we should be using, there seem to be a lot on the market (having looked at Axminster Tools).  Is there a definition of type?

[tuffnell glass]

Hi ,
     This is interesting. All products have a MSDS documents that the manufacturer holds for their item . This wil include the ingrediants , the risks and the information that the medical profession might well need in case of an accident or more commonly the risks for couriers and shippers in case the product is split in transit . We currently carry these on various products including bead release and glass.
       From our experience the European manufacturers are the worst at supplying these , 1 really big European glass manufacturer refuses point blank to provide this sheet and 1 European bead release maker dosn't offer one or even know what it is, these suppliers we do not work with because of this and do not stock these products as we need to hold copies of MSDS sheets incase of an incident.
       I have emailed Bob at Etch All to get an updated MSDS sheet for our records , suppliers are very reluctant to supply these incase competitors use them to copy their products.
       I can only talk of my experience of Etch All and i have never, in 15 years been hurt by it or had a burn , never had a customer have a problem and never had a courier refuse to ship it anywhere in the world. As a ex scientific glassblower who worked in labs i have worked with neat HF acid before and i promise you Etch All is a far safer solution , as an aprentice the boss would show us pictures of HF burns to make sure you never played with it and that is very nasty stuff indeed.
       
martin

[tinker]

Perhaps a safety sheet minus ingredients would be a compromise Martin? The main ingredient stated on my bottle is none of the ones listed on that site provided though

[tuffnell glass]

Hi ,
I'll talk with Bob as soon as he is up and at work .

martin