Skutt 1014 or Kilncare Pro Fuser D

[jackiesimmonds]

Having taken on board several warnings not to buy too small a kiln, I have whittled down my choice, I THINK, to either the Skutt 1014, which is a top loader, 23"x23"x13" deep, and a Kilncare Pro Fuser which is 33"x20" x 13" deep.   It is more of a flatbed, tho I would go for the deeper kiln which has a tiny bit extra in the base, so has a lip.

However, the difference in price is ENORMOUS.  TheSkutt is £1638 and the Kilncare is £2868  !!!   Over a thousand pounds difference!   AND I would need a stand for the Profuser, another £300 and probably more for extra bits and bobs.   

Thing is, I have a bad back, and I cannot see it getting any better, given my age.  It is so tedious.  So, bending over and into the Skutt, to bring out big pieces (which I hope to make) could be an issue........with the Kilncare one, most of the depth is in the lid and you can build on the flatbed base.

I would love to know what others think.  I cannot get to see a Skutt to try it out,   13" is not that deep to lift something out of, and I could probably even shift glass around in it...perhaps I could put a shelf in it, built up on shelf stands.  I really want to see one!!!  So frustrating.

Would you pay the extra for the Kilncare?  I cannot find anything in between, price-wise, which has the depth (there is a Nabatherm, 29x22x9", at £2361........but 9" is not as good for drop vases etc.)

[Calico Cat]

Personally I would go for the Kilncare - UK made with superb customer service.

[♥♥Tan♥♥]

I haven't heard a lot of good things about Skutt but I can tell you kilncare kilns are beyond superb and they are so great to deal with.

[Blue Box Studio]

I haven't heard a lot of good things about Skutt but I can tell you kilncare kilns are beyond superb and they are so great to deal with.

Have you not?  Was looking at one of their kilns for fusing, my budget won't run to a Kilncare kiln I don't think but were money no object, I'd go for Kilncare, just because they are in the UK and so helpful

[Zeldazog]

In terms of manufacturers, I can't personally say a bad word about either - the Skutt Hotstart Pro I has was a fabulous kiln.  Then again, you can't beat Kilncare, as already said, service is second to none, as is build quality.  And UK based for any problems *should* they ever occur.

All the Skutts I have seen have brick lids, where as i am guessing the Kilncare will have a CF lid.  Advice is not to flash vent a brick lid as it makes it brittle, and I have read with drop vases that you have to do that to halt the process?  Not that I'd advocate flash-venting any kiln personally, but it is something commonly done stateside.

In terms of the price difference, there is a difference in capacity to account for - looking at 'square footage' the Skutt is 529 inches in area- the Profuser is 660 inches in area.    So you would get more work in the Profuser

AND I see that the Skutt is a round kiln - so, although it's 23 inches across, consider what the maximum size square sheet is that you will be able to get in it (you can get a 23inch diameter circle on a 23" square shelf, but you can't get a 23" square in a 23" circle) so consider what shapes you might be firing.  I tend to do square things, so for me, a square/rectangular kiln offers me far more space.

square shelf in round kiln by Dawn Turner Designs, on Flickr


Personally, I think you'd maybe stand for the Skutt, as the ones that come with them aren't very high.  I know it comes with a stand, but it says 20cm - will that make the kiln high enough for you? 

[Pat from Canvey]

If sitting gives you less back problems, perhaps consider loading a kiln while sitting. With drop vases, I was told to take a quick peek in the kiln to see if the bottom of the drop has reached the kiln shelf. In my present brick lined kiln, I pause the program, peek and resume the program if the drop is not sufficient. I also used to comb glass in my previous brick kiln and the only brick problem then was to the brick edge on the door. Can I also digress and ask if you've considered going to a chiropractor for your back problems. I've had similar problems for years due to falling down a flight of concrete stairs in my 20's. I'm now rapidly approaching 70 and had no help from the NHS for my back but it's been greatly helped over the last 18 months by a local chiropractor in once a month treatments.

[jackiesimmonds]

thanks everyone.   I get the point about capacity tho at the moment, I have no real sense of how much I will produce...depends on whether I can produce things which will sell!  I do two Open Studios in my own home each year (provided my back doesn't get worse) when I sell paintings AND enamelled copper bowls and panels - they sell really well - and hopefully glass.  I also have three galleries now selling my bowls, but I would have to be achieving quite special glass things for the galleries, I suspect.  So......HOPING I will produce interesting larger glass pieces, that is why I want to buy the new kiln. I have loved the bigger pieces - 18" square - I have produced at my weekly glass class.    But it is very much in the lap of the gods as to whether I will produce good enough work, at home,  to sell.       

I spotted something on an American forum, someone said the difference between a Skutt and a Kilncare is the same as the difference between a Ford Escort car and a Rolls Royce!  I guess then, that answers the "difference in price" issue, coupled with the larger capacity.  I have also read bad things about brick lids dropping bits onto the glass items.

I haven't tried making a drop vase as yet but feel I ought to have a kiln which would enable me to make them if I decided to do so.     I have only made one so far...and that was fired for me, so I know nothing about the venting thing.....maybe I could manage actually without making drop vases!  But I love them..... but it means I could have a far cheaper kiln without so much depth!  Oh dear, so confused.   I could buy a Kilncare Hobbyfuser for  less pennies, which works with regular plug too,  and use it for intermediate size items....but I have a fear of buying small and regretting it, after conversations with others who have told me this is just what they did!

I still do not know whether I would be able to cope with the Skutt, in terms of lifting things in and out.  Putting in perhaps is less of a problem than lifting out. I might "build" myself a cardboard version, to the correct dimensions, and see how it feels to lift a large bowl out of it,(thinks - maybe I could use a simple cardboard box to try this out) . the Skutt has short legs, so I guess could go onto a stand, or go up on fire bricks.

I am 70 this month, yes, I go regularly to a chiropractor, weekly lately,  who informs me I am "doing well" but I have yet to see progress recently, I just seem to be stuck in pain mode for the past six weeks or so, and spending money on nothing.   I also sometimes see an osteopath.  But I do not think anyone has gotten to the root of it really.  A back surgeon has told me I have two or three "bad spots", a possible hip issue too, and in general I might do best to have injections into the spine for the pain....but I am scared of this idea.       But enough of all that.  I am just responding to your kind suggestion Pat!

[RLBrown]

Hi

I had a similar dilemma a few months ago. i decided that i really wanted a kiln, but where to start with the decision making.

I'd have loved to have gone really big as i know eventually I'll want to do large stuff and dropped vases. But I decided that I'd have to wait years before I could afford a really big kiln. Not only due to the price but also the pain of having the house rewired.
In the end I started looking at kilns that I could plug in and would get me going. If in the future I really want to do bigger and hopefully have some sales, then I'll have the background and experience to choose a bigger kiln, selling the smaller one if I really have to.

So my choice was between Kilncare HobbyFuser and the Skutt Firebox 14

I have a post on here somewhere about which one I should choose. I also got the 'Ford Focus' V 'Rolls Royce' reference and that was from the guy at Kilncare.

After much debating I opted to go for the hobbyfuser. In some part because of recommendations on here, also because it is square and I like to make square stuff, so I can get bigger stuff in there than in the Skutt. In the end it came down to the fact that I say we should support British businesses where possible, so I did.

I didn't buy the stand though, I bought some breeze blocks and my husband made me a stand that was just the right height for me.
£30-40 verses the £180 for the stand. That left me some for glass / moulds / etc.

Just thinking towards the future.. would you keep enjoying doing something that you know is going to hurt your back?

I don't know if any of that helps, hope it does.

Rachael

[Moira HFG]

I don't want to pour cold water on your plans, when you sound so keen to produce big work. But..have you considered starting with a smaller kiln before you invest in a big one?

The reasons I suggest this are:

- operating the kiln yourself is a skill, and you may as well get the hang of it with something cheap before committing to something bigger. To continue the analogy, like learning road skills on a moped before buying the Ford Escort or Rolls Royce!

-smaller kilns are easily resold, whereas if you find a big one doesn't suit you, you'll find it harder to pass on.

-if you have space, you might find you want to keep the smaller one after you've bought the bigger one, for test pieces and ideas you want to try. And starting something new whilst the other one is off but still cooling down.

-will all your work really be 18" x 18" ? Smaller work is likely to find a readier sale. And you can try out ideas to see if they sell, without spending a fortune on glass.

Just my take on the problem; I hope I haven't confused you more!

Good luck, whatever you choose.

[anditsinthefish]

I would also support Moira in having a small kiln is great for test pieces, if you have an order you wont need to run a big kiln with hardly anything in it.

I have a maxine and a paragon SC2, I could have parted with my maxine but what if I was annealing beads and wanted to fuse/enamel. I am also looking at investing in larger glass or glass/ceramic kiln but realistically don't want to part with my SC2. I can do small fuses for 50p a go and it would also allow me to enamel whilst I fuse. But I am in a similar dilemma of cost as I could sell my SC2.


Sorry just my little bit, probably of no use

[marklaird]

I'm in the same camp as Moira (if she's in a camp).

I bought an SC2 about 18 months ago to anneal beads and then earlier this year started doing fusing in it. It can go to 17cm square which is still large enough for some really nice fused pieces. I started selling the smaller pieces, and have recently invested in a Hobbyfuser. Like Rachael said, it's the 'Rolls Royce' model but superb. easy to open, not too deep (I've got the shelf on risers) so it's easy to load, and really efficient. My last two runs have come in at 5.4 and 5.3 Kw (it has a built in meter) so for me that's about 70p for a fusing cycle.
So far I've not fused anything big in it, but it allows me to fused more smaller things, so less cost per item.
The Hobbyfuser was £1500 including stand and shelf from Warm Glass when they had their sale last month.
It also plugs into a standard socket so easier to install.
Hope that is of help, and doesn't add to the overall confusion.
Mark

[jackiesimmonds]

thanks so much everyone....really appreciated!   As I said in my other post, I made myself a cardboard kiln, same size at the Hobbyfuser, to see if my biggest bowl and biggest panel would do into it happily, and they did........so, thanks to you all, and to my experimental kiln, that is the one I plan to buy!   I hope I wont regret it.  When I read that the bigger Kilncare kiln could take 36 coasters, I nearly fell over...it would take me weeks to make that many, let alone sell them!

I do in fact have a small Paragon which I use for my enamelled copper work....I can make pendants and very small glass dishes and coasters, so this new one will give me a greater range for the occasional nice big piece ...which hopefully will sell, but who knows!  I do a couple of Open Studios in my home each year, I sell my enamels well, and perhaps glass will go too, it remains to be seen.

I do like to get these kinds of responses....I regularly post on WetCanvas, a forum for artists, and have done for years, it is so nice to get responses from real people rather than those trying to sell me stuff.

thanks again everyone.   Off to Warm Glass...they have a kiln sale tomorrow!

Jackie

[June]

I have a Skutt Firebox 14 and it's a great kiln. It is also square!