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Author Topic: floral formers v stainless steel cups - To drape or Not To Drape?  (Read 3990 times)
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Lorac
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« on: July 24, 2014, 01:07:57 PM »

Having spent a fortune on moulds for slumping I am dying to try a stainless steel former type for making small tealight holders. I bought a cheap stainless steel mug/cup, probably for toothbrush storage or something and wondered if I can use as a budget 'floral former'?? like the ones Warm Glass sell?
The main difference I suspect is the shape at base - rather a gentle convex curve reaching the flat base part this 'cup' has a straight sided cylindrical shape with parallel sides meeting the base at a right angle [near enough!]
Any advice from anyone?
Yey! Thanks Tan [am I typing this in the right place to reply?Huh
It is great to hear from someone so resourceful!  How do I prepare the cup? With kilnwash as for a ceramic mould? Do I heat it up first and how many coats?  I think somewhere I read that you should put a piece of Thinfire shelf paper on top or cup and under glass?
What do you do?  THANKS so much Tan - any idea about likely schedule? 6mm bullseye?
cheers
« Last Edit: July 24, 2014, 04:38:22 PM by Lorac » Logged
♥♥Tan♥♥
cuntbuckets
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« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2014, 02:32:42 PM »

Use it, all of my stainless formers are cocktail shakers/ashtrays/cups/toilet roll holder. If it's stainless steel you can slump over it or into it if it's a big old mixing bowl.
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Margram
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« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2014, 03:31:13 AM »

Just replying to your question about where to type your reply - don't edit your original post: just click on Reply and you get a new blank box to fill in, hit Post and your reply appears below the last comment Smiley

PS the Reply choice appears in a row of blue choices below the last comment.
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Lorac
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« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2014, 06:20:08 AM »

Thanks! found it. Smiley
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Lorac
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« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2014, 05:30:35 PM »

Tan
thanks for your encouragement, have now found a few to experiment with. Can you help suggest a schedule to use for slumping over a stainless steel kitchen worktop mini bin, the kind with swing lid? I just want it about 6 to 8 deep and as container is about 20 it wont be anywhere near the shelf props. would you use thinfire paper and or batt wash??
Do I need to use full 6mm ? i would like them to be delicate rather than chunky!!
be glad for any advice!
when i bought the hobbyfuser somewhere it suggested using the shelf props for draping tealight holders but as they are ceramic and have holes in the top I wasnt sure if it would work!
cheers
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Nina A
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« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2014, 01:42:01 AM »

If I'm draping over a metal container I use thin fire paper first and then because the glass shrinks slightly when cooling I put 3mm Ceramic fibre paper to cover the Base (slightly larger to allow for the shrinkage shrinkage, which then stops it hugging the mold )  it sometimes gives not quite so smooth a finish where the Ceramic Fibre paper is  but I've always been able to release from the mold. I always keep a fusing log, note the colours I've used and what the result is,, so that I can adjust up or down a few degrees depending on the glass.  Like the Glass rods,  different colours react differently at the same temperature,  white will always drape earlier than black.
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Lorac
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« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2014, 07:14:38 AM »

thanks for that Nina
are the stainless steel things you have used a right angle between base and sides? the 'floral formers' I have seen for sale have gently sloping sides so I am wondering if right angles are to be avoided?!
Cheers
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Glyn Burton
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« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2014, 02:18:51 PM »

If you can find some with a sloping side I find them easier to remove and there is less chance of the glass shrinking onto the mould. I always use batt wash, abrade the surface slightly and you will find it easier and as long as all the metal is covered it should be ok with 1 coat. I sometimes spray the batt wash on, its a bit trickier to do but gives a lovely finish alternatively make a thick mix and use a coarse brush to give texture.
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Pat from Canvey
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« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2014, 02:37:25 PM »

If you want a textured finish, use a household paint roller with a slightly denser wash.
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Lorac
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« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2014, 10:33:51 AM »

think i am ready to have a go at draping over stainless steel but am still in need of a schedule?
can anyone point me towards one for bullseye - probably 4mm plus bits rather than 6 as i want them to be as light as possible.
I have a hobbyfuser 3.
has anyone draped over the circular shelf props?? warm glass suggested this but am worried about them sticking.
be glad for any pointers
many thanks

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Jane C ♫
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« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2014, 10:43:25 AM »

If you want to drape over shelf props, kilnwash them first, then wrap in fibre blanket (3mm ish), then a slightly larger circle on the top. You might want to put wire round too to stop it unwinding, and then put a piece of thinfire on top. That way as it shrinks it's covered in fibre blanket so your glass can compress that and not your ceramic post. Try it.
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Hand Painted Silk and Fused Glass Artist.
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Lorac
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« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2014, 01:20:41 PM »

is anyone prepared to suggest a draping schedule for tealight/candle holder to go over a stainless steel pot?
I have a hobbyfuser 3 but no idea where to start    650 degrees for 15 minutes is the Slumpy schedule for system 96 for draping but I use bullseye and am not sure how it compares. [this is referred to or linked from Warm Glass stainless steel Floral Former mould
Presumably I need to peak and watch til it looks right and then what?Huh change the schedule in the middle??
scary!  Do i need to use the PAUSE FEATURE? on the kiln to look in and see how far it has draped?
be really grateful for any ideas
Cheers
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Zeldazog
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« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2014, 02:41:39 PM »

As you already know, slumping can happen across a huge range of temperatures - depending on glass colour, thickness, decoration, how large/deep your slump/drape shape is.... and that's just within one range of glass!  Then, I have said it before on the forum, and I will say it again. Each kiln is different.

Take a look at a Bullseye schedule for a particular process, then the schedule for the same process for Spectrum 96.  You will get a rough idea of the temperature difference.  But remember it is NOT an exact science, and draping is probably even more variable than other processes as it's relying on gravity.

As a general rule, I think Spectrum fires a little bit cooler than Bullseye, but I can't recall how much as I have never used Spectrum.  And I've never used a stainless steel draping mould. 

What I personally would do is (after confirming if I am right that Spectrum fires lower than Bullseye) I would run the Spectrum program anyway.  What's the worst that can happen?  Your piece will be under-fired, in which case you can re-do it a little bit hotter.


As for looking in the kiln, please make sure you've got the correct safety eyewear for this, I think it's Welding level 3 or something (don't have any so/because I don't look in my kiln at high temperatures).  If it's slumped enough, the pause won't help - it will hold it at that temperature - you need to skip to the next segment.

I know you're looking for an exact answer, but sometimes, with glass, the only way to find out, is to have a go and see what happens.




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Lorac
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« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2014, 02:31:02 PM »

Thanks Zeldadog
You are so right!
But tricky is a challenge eh? It would be boring [but cheaper] if everything was predictable.
Someone said it was ok to 'peep' into the kiln without glasses! Do you not agree? I havent been able to get them and am waiting for them to be in stock. I thought pausing the kiln would switch off the infa red danger rays???
I am not sure how to skip to the next step with my hobbyfuser 3 - does anyone else out there know how this is done??
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Zeldazog
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« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2014, 02:44:37 PM »

How to skip will be in your program booklet - I can't look as mine is at the studio.

It's the hot glass that emits the IR rays that you need to be careful of, so even if the kiln is switched off, at slumping temperatures, the glass will still be aglow.

http://www.warmglass.com/Health_and_safety.htm

Is it safe to 'peep' into a kiln without glasses? Probably, but in all honesty, I don't know.  I cut my teeth on a kiln with a brick lid, where the advice is no venting as it makes the lid brittle - so I tend not to vent at high temperatures anyway.   

I am not sure I want to risk my eyesight to find out...
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