Moving from MAPP to bulk.

Carrie-Jane · October 18, 2007, 10:51:31 PM

I realise that there have been many threads on this subject for the new bead maker. However I am still a bit confused and unsure after reading through them all! Sorry all!

I have just started by second canister of MAPP gas and realise that it will be expensive and a pain in the bum using them long term. So on that thought husband decided to help me find a welding supplier on the way home from the shops.
The chap there was very helpful, looked slightly concerned I was doing all this in the garage and was muttering about house insurance etc. I was shown hoses and even went into their "shed" to look at the canisters of propane. I didn't have my HH torch head with me so we didn't know what connector I would need. Also I have seen different diameter size of propane hose available etc. The chap in the welding supplier kept saying "we are into the industrial stuff here" but offered to help if I came back with my torch head. Also he was trying to explain about "bar"?? and pressure? and the difference from the MAPP canisters I currently use.

Short story is I came away more confused with a propane canister sized headache.

I have looked at the bulk conversion kits on Tuffnell (where I got my starter kit). And know there's will work first time and fit Okay. I am currently a stay at home Mum, so we were trying to say a few pennies. Am I better off just saving a bit longer and getting the proper conversion kit?
Do I need the dearer one with the quick release connector?
Our garage is detached from the house, should I still keep the canister outside of the garage and drill in through the wall with the hose?

What I didn't want is to get loads of bits from the welders and have trouble getting it all together and working.

Also I am sure I read in one of my books that the propane does not burn as hot as the MAPP, would I notice a difference when trying to make a bead?

Sorry about all the questions but I am trying to get my mind clear on this!

Lush! · October 19, 2007, 06:58:17 AM

Hi Carrie-Jane

I bought the bulk connector kit from Martin, with the quick release bit. But that's cos I don't have a handy hubby at home and was happy to pay an all-in price and have the comforting knowledge that it was all the right equipment, put together properly and ready to plug-and-play! But I have read posts on here of others saving a bit by buying from welding suppliers.

I have just discovered that Countrywide Stores don't charge a deposit on the 11kg bottles of propane, and the connector on top is exactly the same as Calor. So that could save you about £20.

I work in the porch which is attached to the house, and keep my bottle outside with the hose poked through a window, although my dad has offered to drill through the door frame and fit an extractor fan so I can have the doors and windows closed in the winter. I know of another person who works in a detached garage, and I think she keeps her propane right by the open door.

HTH

dinah46 · October 19, 2007, 07:47:20 AM

After using less than 2 Mapp canisters I was definitely ready to go Bulk as it's not just the cost but the fact that the mapp only seems good for the first half hour or so.

I can recommend Tuffnell's kit and I use the quick release so I can keep the propane outside the garage tucked away and bring the hose out through the garage window so no need to drill. I know that's not what you want to hear and you want a cheaper alternative. There are posts on here from people who have done that but I was willing to pay for Martin's expertise and brilliant service and be safe in the knowledge that all I had to do was screw the connector to the propane.

Whichever you choose you will not regret ditching the Mapp!

sparrow · October 19, 2007, 08:41:20 AM

Hi Carrie-Jane,

I bought the connector kit from Martin as well, but I needed the splitter, so I could run both my HH and my silversmithing torch off it - so it still took DH and me a while to figure it out. It works great though. I work in a garage attached to the house (not through the house, just sharing a wall), and my bench is right by the door, with the propane tank there, no quick release, no drilling. That's survived two winters with silversmithing without any problems, so I think I'll stick with it. I too thought about buying the stuff separately, but I have a lot of respect for gas, so I decided it was maybe false economy trying to save there.....instead, I put the idea of an oxycon a bit further away in my mind. I worked out how much money I was going to spend on MAPP gas, and realised it would be two months before the kit would pay for itself...whatever you decide to do, good luck

Sarah · October 19, 2007, 09:07:50 AM

Hi Carrie-Jane

It is confusing isn't it?

I went to Martin as well and bought his kit. For me it was because of time, safety and expertise. I know that you can (and others have done successfully) put the kit together yourself and be safe. But I'm short on time in life generally so needed a quick route. And you will save a fortune after the initial investment so whichever way you go it is worth it.

If you have time to put into this I suggest you go back to the welding shop with your hothead and ask them to help you to put it together safely. Its probably one occasion when them thinking you're a daft female (stereotype I know but its often true) will help as they'll want to make sure you don't blow yourself up. Ask them to tell you what size hose you need. You can take some print offs from the web showing what you intend to do so that they can see you're not going to sit there and wave matches near the hoses for fun. But if you're at all nervous about what they suggest then don't buy from them.

As to the quick connector this is useful if you don't always want to have your propane canister in the same place. It means that you can easily detach it & move it somewhere else to store. But if you'll be using it in the same place as you store it you don't need it in my opinion.

Bar is the measurement of gas pressure - you'll need a regulator to keep the pressure right - mine is a 4 bar. Mapp does burn hotter than propane but you might not notice the difference - in fact many of us found the propane to give a hotter flame. I think this is because of the small size of the MAPP canister. As the pressure drops & the can gets cold the flame gets cooler.

I can't recommend going bulk highly enough - you will notice a major improvement and save lots of money. And for my part safety means that I would always recommend Martin's kit - he knows exactly what we're going to use it for and has a business interest in keeping us all in one piece!

Hope this helps

Shirley · October 19, 2007, 09:22:09 AM

Bulk is great.

I bought the kit with the quick release from Martin because I didn't want to muck about putting bits together. I work in my garage with the tank inside while I work and then store it outside afterwards. The hose isn't long enough to reach outside and it isn't possible to drill through the wall safely. I've no concern about having the tank there as I check for leaks each time I start. I also bleed the hose before I disconnect the tank.

Although it's more to get the kit from Martin it's worth it for the ease of setting up, and I know I've saved an absolute fortune already. No regrets.

GlassOcean · October 19, 2007, 08:54:35 PM

Hi Carrie-Jane,

I am now very happily bulked-up and it is sooooooo much better than MAPP! I have noticed that it is a little cooler but not as cool as the end of a MAPP cannister! So it is swings and roundabouts really. It does save a massive amount of money too!

I am set up in a workshop attached to my garage and have the hose jubilee clipped to my torch and to the regulator. I already had the regulator, hose and gas bottle so didn't need that part of the set up, that is the only reason I didn't go to Martin, I didn't realise he did it all as separates as well though!!

There are 2 schools of thought about the set up too, I went in to my local welding shop and so did a male friend separately and we were both told that you do not need a flashback arrestor with a propane only set up. If you had an acetylene only set-up you would need one. With a dual oxygen and propane set up you need one on both parts as the oxygen pressure is higher than the propane so can force heat back up the pipe.

I just nodded and grinned all the way through it and went home and fitted one anyway!!

Upshot is, for ease and guarentees that it all fits together and works together (I bought the wrong bits twice!!) Martins is definitely the way forward.

Anyway, there are people on here who know way more than me, I am only learning too, I think we started out at the same time.

Good luck,
Take care,
Kerensa.

Sal · October 19, 2007, 09:00:54 PM

I just bought the complete kit from Martin too (with the quick release thingy-whatsits). I was far too scared to try and buy bits separately! Martin is also incredibly helpful if you get rather confused (like me!) and will talk you through things until you get them sorted.

finks · October 19, 2007, 09:25:25 PM

I went to the welding shop and they sorted it all out for me a treat and it was really cheap!
I had to get a flash back arrestor from the local plumbing store and they fitted that to my tubing.
It is worth taking the hot head to the welders- otherwise they don't have a clue what you are talking about!
Take that the hot head to the welder and if they are anything like the guys I spoke to then you will be laughing!!

Funky Cow · October 19, 2007, 09:59:29 PM

Quote from: Bluebottle_25 on October 19, 2007, 06:58:17 AM

I have just discovered that Countrywide Stores don't charge a deposit on the 11kg bottles of propane, and the connector on top is exactly the same as Calor. So that could save you about £20.

The ba**ards - they charged me a deposite of £25, and I bet you went to the one by Malvern Morrison's like I did?

Carrie-Jane · October 19, 2007, 10:29:16 PM

Well my two year old daughter and I went to a local welding suppliers today. Actually they have a good website
http://www.rapidwelding.com/
I did my girly bit and I took a picture of what I wanted and a list. I didn't have my hothead with me as I can't safely unbolt it all with a two year old poking around! Anyways they quoted me approx £75 for the whole lot, including flashback arrestor and quick release connector. The only bit they were unsure about is the the connector to the hot head itself.
They said I could phone and order and they would get it all ready for me.
So I am thinking about it.
I still have one last canister of MAPP to use up that I have just plugged in, so when that goes that's it, bulk for me.
I can understand the convenience of getting it all one from one place and plugging it in and it working straight away, it very attractive to a busy Mum like me! I have spent the afternoon phoning around for car insurance quotes and can potentially save another £70 there too.
Why is it when I do an online quote they then phone me up afterwards to discuss it?

? I thought the whole point of doing it all online was so I don't have to speak to someone!

Lush! · October 19, 2007, 11:45:05 PM

Quote from: Funky Cow on October 19, 2007, 09:59:29 PMI bet you went to the one by Malvern Morrison's like I did?

Nope, Handy Man House on Spring Lane (for a bit of personal, old-fashioned service!). Apparently you pay a deposit on certain bottles (mainly the small ones I think) as there is a national shortage, but not the 11kg.

Carrie-Jane · October 23, 2007, 03:28:35 PM

Well I have been to the welding suppliers and have my 5m of hosing, regulator and flashback arrestor all screwed in together ready to go. I just need the hot head adapter and think I have found one in a local Plumb Center but my local store is out of stock and I'd have to drive to a further store to get one.

Gas canister is organised as the local tip does them for £10 for 13Kg one.
What size does everyone else use?
I thought the 6KG little one looked too small.?

I asked for a single stage 4 bar regulator from the welding store and the man assures me I don't need one and I have got a 2.0 bar one. I am not sure about this? will it work OKay? I am able to take it back if there is a problem.

My husband thinks shopping around is a great idea, but I am the one doing it!! I am thinking it is pain in the bum!
Don't you all tell me I told you so!! I can't complain as I am a stay at home Mum and not earning at the moment, so it's not my money.

Shirley · October 23, 2007, 04:05:49 PM

Don't know about all the bits, but a 6kg tank will give about 60 hours of torch time, and it's moveable. 13kg is pretty heavy, bearing in mind that you have also got the physical weight of the tank to add on top.

Carrie-Jane · October 23, 2007, 04:13:40 PM

Thanks for that Shirley, I was thinking it was 13kg altogether including tank!
I think the smaller one is the way to go, as I live right near Swanwick where all the boat yards and yacht chandlers are so its only a 5 minute drive to exchange the tank and get more gas. I am guessing people would be more likely to use a small one on their boat.

I am still extremely nervous about all the kit I have bought today. Buyers remorse!