Lampworking from home / insurance

[ShinySnail]

Hi,
Does anybody know anything about the legalities of making glass beads from home?
I expect that it's a bit dodgy in rented accomodation, and I think I may have heard somewhere that you shouldn't be lampworking in a flat above ground floor, even if you own it?

It's difficult to know who to ask about this sort of thing, I have spoken to insurance compaines and estate agents but people cannot relate and often just say that no harm would be done if I just didn't tell anybody.
Surely if things are not above board then you could get in trouble with somebody or the insuarance will not pay out? I'm not really happy to ignore this without finding out a bit more.

I'd like to move soon and ideally buy a flat, so I want to do my research properly beforehand so I don't have any nasty suprises later on!

Any advice would be great,
Anna x

[helbels]

Well you are basically right in what you say.

You should be insured, because IF your propane tank were to blow up your house then the insurance company would not pay out.   That's the bottom line.  So I guess IF that happened you could go to prison for fraud etc etc.

As with all things though, it depends on your attitude to risk.  

For instance, if you are in a leasehold flat, then the management company is highly unlikely to agree to you lampworking if you tell them about it.     So, do you tell them, and then find they say "no you can't do it"... so you have to give up your dream? ..... or do you think "Actually the likelihood of my propane tank blowing the flat sky high is really quite remote, so what they don't know won't hurt them, particularly if I'm sensible with my propane and always store it outside after use"  (Incidentally, I  would STRONGLY advise against permanently storing propane indoors).     Add to the fact that for many, moving to somewhere bigger with a garden isn't always an option and you can start to see where it becomes a very grey area.

There's the legal "right" answer -  which is "don't do it without insurance".  But there are plenty of people doing it without insurance as well, despite what the "rules" say.   Some people are totally 100% above board, because they wouldn't feel comfortable operating any other way - whilst  others aren't, and they have chosen to take the risk.  It's totally up to you and your conscience really.

[ShinySnail]

Thanks Helen, yeah it is a bit of a tough call 

As it stands I live in a flat and I have contents and business insurance, but it does not cover any damage that may be caused by lampworking. I had the biggest nightmare trying to find somebody who would cover me at all, but I secretly worry that it's all in vain anyway because the flat is rented!

Just wanted to do things 'right' this time - if that's possible!

[Charli]

I'm currently doing some insurance-hunting, I found that NFU would cover me for all lampworking stuff (and they knew what it was!) but were rather expensive. Esure/Sheilas Wheels/various other insurance companies will cover my torch with flames indoors, but not for propane tanks bigger than the mapp-tanks (but piping it indoors is fine (if done by a gas-safe registered person), and using natural gas is fine too). They would cover gas tanks in the garage/shed. They also wouldn't cover me for business purposes without a massive jump in costs, and since i sell about £50 of beads a year, I think I'll give up on the selling part!

So, yes, thats my findings so far!

[Blue Box Studio]

I ended up going with NFU.  I spent months researching on line and either they would not cover anything with a flame (even in my shedio), any visitors to the property - husband runs retreats perhaps 3 weeks a year and I do arts week one week every 2 years, or they couldn't cope with more than one business being run from the house.  I was so worn down by the end of it that when NFU actually were helpful, managed to stick to the same set of facts more than once and knew what I did with a flame I nearly bit their hand off for cover.  I even managed to add on cover for my credit card terminal (part of the agreement, you pay up if you break it) for less than the merchant companies own policy because he considered the risk of me or a customer breaking it, it being pinched or anything else were, in reality, quite minimal.

[Redhotsal]

Ian Wallace offers insurance specifically for bead making although I now use GM Imber as they are cheaper. My previous experience in trying to get a "high street" insurer to have anything to do with your bead making was not a good one. They are not set up for craft/hobby type scenarios and you would be better off insuring your lampworking separately with a specialist. Yes, it's two lots of insurance to pay out, but better to be safe than sorry. Having said that I teach aswell so have to have Public Liability insurance too.

One thing I would advise you to consider is whether you are lampworking for a hobby or whether it will provide an income. If it's the latter you may well have to inform you normal insurance company and mortgage company as they may have specific views on "working from home".

The thing about working above ground floor is that if you have a propane leak the gas will have tendancy to float downwards (as it is heavier than air). Above the ground floor this can mean that the propane may seep into the space between your floor and the ceiling below. This is particularly risky because you may not notice the leak and also that the gas may well "pop out" somewhere entirely different in the building with disastrous consequences.

I do have a lot of sympathy with the point that if you don't tell people what you are doing then they won't have an opinion on it, and I do know that for many people it's not easy to find the right place to make beads however, I always ask myself this: If I thought I was living in the flat above some chick who had started melting glass and burning propane, how would I feel about it?

[Dickie]

It's important to remember that NOT telling an insurance company something, is pretty much a licence for them to get out of ANY obligations you may feel they have with you.

A worse case scenario could be that... You lampwork from home... decide not to tell them, then your house is damaged by say by a flood, fire, or some other natural disaster, but specifically not through lampworking.
The insurance assessor will turn up, see all your lampworking gear in the ashes/remains of your house and say that you are not insured as you did not inform them of your activities.
They are tricky like that and will find ANYTHING in order to get out of a claim.

It's not easy (or cheap) but unfortunately, I don't think there is a lot you can do.
Either we have to find companies that are happy for us to do it; and pay them. Or, unfortunately, perhaps not lampwork at all.

I know personally I found it quite tricky getting insurance. We now insure the house through Aviva, and they were happy that the studio was insured separately through another company under business terms, (they were the only household name I could find that were) but it took a bit of persuading to make them understand that they did not need to insure the studio in the garden at all (even though they actually insure it anyway via Ian Wallace  ).

When it comes to lampworking inside the house that's a different ball game though, as they are one and the same property, and it might be more difficult to "split" the insurance.

The bottom line is... I don't think the approach of not telling them will work. As in the event of a claim (for whatever reason) you may find yourself uninsured, and that's not nice