Midrange or minor torch?

[LittleHen]

 
I'm torn between getting a midrange torch with a minor burner on top (and two oxycons to run it) and just a minor (one Oxycon).  I'd like to try big things like door knobs and boro beads in the future.
Do you think I should splash out and learn on the big one or tread carefully and buy the minor with one oxycon, this is the cheaper option but do you think that I'd get frustrated trying to make the bigger things?
I've been having a few lessons and I'm really hooked but need to decide on a few big things like torch etc first. 
Also do you think it's a safe thing to do in a bedroom.  I can't decide on the attic room or the celler for a workshop.
Any opinions would be most welcome, also any other things I'll need - the kiln is on the way.
Cheers,
Jessie

[Redhotsal]

Go for a midrange straightaway if you want to work big or with boro in the future but be prepared to spend £££s. You can start with a minor and upgrade - I'm sure there's a healthy market for a second hand minor and you'll probably be able to use a lot of the fittings - regulator and so on. It's simply a matter of finance and space.
I really really wouldn't want to make beads in a bedroom. Too many things can go wrong. Too much flammable stuff - not enough ventilation. I would be wary of an attic room. If you (God forbid) have any sort of mishap it's an awful long escape route. Plus, beadmaking is fumey and messy - you don't want to have to sleep in the aftermath of a days torching.
Cellar - not great - propane is a heavy gas which will sink if it leaks. You need to make sure you have lots and lots of ventilation although if you can have your propane positioned outside and leading into the cellar this is not such a big risk. But make sure you can readily detect leaks and make sure you have good access and egress from the area. And a fire extinguisher.

[LittleHen]

Thanks for the tips.  Maybe I'll leave the attic room alone as it's our guest room at the moment... glass in the bed wouldn't be great!
What type of extraction do you think - I can't stand the noise of my cooker hood fan.  Down the cellar I could vent to the small window.
I do want the mid range but need to put a good case forward for all that expense!
Jessie

[Mary]

The problem with bedrooms is that glass is prone to shatter in the flame, and it pops everywhere! Hot fragments and soft furnishings are not a good mix.

I use a big extractor fan, but I've heard that hydroponics fans are quieter.

You can use a Minor on two oxy-cons for boro, if you don't want to jump right in to the mid-range. So you could start with one oxy, upgrade to two, then upgrade the torch if you want to do it in stages.

It's a lot of decisions to make, good luck with your choices!

[LittleHen]

 
Just googled Hydroponic fans and think I'll investigate further, I don't want to spend all my time in a really noisy environment. 
Jessie

[Redhotsal]

You ought to have some sort of "push-pull" ventilation in your cellar. In other words if you extract air via a fan you need to replace the incoming air. Ideally you want to "flush" the fumes  across continously. In this regard a window isn't an ideal situation because fresh air has to come in the same way it is expected to leave. Unless the window is very close to your work area it won't work efficiently, especially on a still/calm day. On the other hand on a windy day you will have loads of other problems with the flame blowing around.
Certainly if you are thinking of boro, enamels, fuming or silver vapour work you must have mechanical extraction. And it should go without saying that you should consult your doctor and probably stay away from this sort of work if you may be pregnant for the duration of the pregnancy (not saying you are, of course - that's just general info!  )
Mechanical extraction is noisy - mine is a kitchen hood and I'd sooner freeze to death with both doors of my shed wide open than put up with the noise on occasion, so I understand exactly where you're coming from! You might consider having a flange-type hood over your work area and running a wide bore hose (like a tumble dryer hose) to a fan mounted outside the cellar. This would be less noisy as the fan is further away but you'd have to make sure you got the "balance" right - air coming in relative to air being extracted.  You can check this with smoke tests - little incense sticks are great to see exactly where the smoke is going. No miracle answer though - extraction is noisy and if you want to do high end/mid range stuff extraction is a necessity not an option.

[glassworks]

excellent answer sal, i was not really aware of the "replacing air" issue with extraction until i read more about it in a book about marble making using boro..

the book also highlighted the possible side effects of the chemicals in the glass when heated and fumed..

excellent advice!!!

[Billie]

Kinda off-topic/in-topic... Do you have to stay away from lampworking in general if pregnant or just when using boro, enamels, fuming or silver vapour work?  Not that I am... but we're considering it... I have wondered if I'd need to 

[glassworks]

not sure about this at all - anyone?...

[Billie]

LOL... I guess I should just ask the doctor if the situation ever arises 

[Vicki]

I'm assuming as long as the ventilation is good, the baby is breathing what you do...just keep the air clean!

[beadysam]

My venting system is a huge hydroponics fan.  They can be noisy too, but simply for space reasons, the fan is in the shed next door to my Torcher Chamber which makes it quieter.  Its usually on the slowest (it is multi-speed via a dimmer) which is higher than recommended anyway, and I wack it up when using frits or metals.  I also pop it on when I'm measuring out frit, along with a respirator.  I usually have the door open for make up air but when we re-roofed we used corrugated roofing to allow air flow under the roof all around the building - gets windy sometimes LOL!  The air from the fan is vented out the back of the shed next door so doesn't get sucked into make up air at all. Better too much than too little....

[Redhotsal]

The general view is that "normal" lampworking i.e. just melting glass in a well ventilated situation is not hazardous to the baby. Bear in mind that there are fumes associated with the torch in the form of carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide and  nitrogen monoxide/dioxides. These can lead to respiratory problems if you are overexposed to them but as long as there is adequate efficient ventilation there should be no serious threat to the baby or yourself.

HOWEVER - I'm not a medical expert and you should always check and verify with your doctor. Tell them exactly what you're doing - what your procedures and safety precautions are and let THEM advise you. You may have a previous history of respiratory problems -asthma, for example which may be irritated or worsened by the fumes.

Higher end lampworking - where you may be using enamels, metal vapour (as in silver/gold leaf work and fuming, using some of the more exotic glasses like Double Helix (which contain a lot of silver), and Borosilicate work (which contains many heavy metal oxides) is a very questionable practise with regard to pregnancy. Frankly, I wouldn't consider any of this type of work if I thought there was a chance I was pregnant, however tempting it may be. The possibility of metal vapour poisoning to a fetus is not well known through beadmaking but you don't want to play Russian Roulette with your baby for the sake of a few months away from the torch.

In my experience it is much better to slink off to the garage/shed/studio  after the baby is born and you're through with breast feeding and then you can really enjoy this period of just you, the torch, your noisy extractor and the baby's intercom! (Ah - memories) 

Incidentally don't forget the non-torching aspects - vermiculite, fibre blankets and kiln dust are all potential hazards to your health. Silicosis is a nasty and irreversible disease which is a very real and present danger with regard to working with refractory material and glass dust (i.e. if you like to grind your glass make sure you keep your dust levels down).

[beadysam]

Incidentally don't forget the non-torching aspects - vermiculite, fibre blankets and kiln dust are all potential hazards to your health. Silicosis is a nasty and irreversible disease which is a very real and present danger with regard to working with refractory material and glass dust (i.e. if you like to grind your glass make sure you keep your dust levels down).

Fab advice Sal - and its easy to forget the balnkets, vermic etc....

[Mary]

Amy from Zoozii had her studio given a proper inspection when she got pregnant, tests and samples and everything, to assess risks. I think she posted the results on LE somewhere. But basically I think she was reassured.