boro questions

[saffie]

it has been in the back of my mind for a little while to give boro a go but I have a few questions and for the life of me I can find answers searching through the forum or the wiki if I have missed a thread please point me in the direction but can someone answer the following
1) I only have 1 oxycon and can;t afford another right now so can i even hope to do boro on one oxy!
2) what about annealing range in kiln can I use the same anneal as my soft glass (thinking the answer is a resounding no here!!!)
3) are there any resources about how to achieve the fantastic effects you get from boro.
4) didys not enough what eye protection do I need?

thank you off to try to do more research
cheers
Sam

[saffie]

ok some answers here for peeps that are also interested!!!
Would be fab to hear from those that use boro for any helpful hints

http://www.sundanceglass.com/glass-bead.htm

xx

[Chameleon]

I have worked boro on a minor with one oxy, slow but not a huge problem. Pipyr does a good tutorial for getting you started with boro on an oxycon, and this has info on how colours develop/ haze too

Mike Aurelius is a great source of health and safety type info for boro (safety glasses etc) and has annealing info here

there is a booklet of boro recipies for colours and effects someone is selling but there is a lot of info in the boro room over on LE about that too 

HTH and look forward to seeing what you make 

[garishglobes]

I 'did' boro on one oxy with a Bobcat for 6 months and it was fine. I definitely, definitely appreciate having 2 now but one was fine to start with. I know Glenn has a minor and did boro on it with one oxy too, but to be honest I think the bobcat is capable of a bit more heat, which I'm sure helped me to start with. Actually, it isn't the heat exactly, more the ability to get a good oxidising/neutral flame and enough heat to melt the boro within a reasonable time frame that is the issue.
I'd suggest aiming at central colours encased with clear - the clear melts quicker, and it is less critical to have an oxidising flame once the bead is encased.
You need green shades over the didys - pref. shade 3 or higher, you can get Uvex clip-ons which are quite cool, or an over-pair. It is welders shade 3 green you're after.
I have an annealing schedule if you want, but you will find that while most boro schedules are different from the soft glass ones, they are also different from each other!!!
When I started, I found the Glass Alchemy guides very, very helpful - and they have lots of working tips on their website, partic. if you compare glasses. You don't need to use the GA glass to find the working tips helpful, the glass types definitely run across from one manufacturer to another. Having said that I love GA glass 
Sorry, that was an essay!!!

[Hamilton Taylor]

Trautman Art Glass also have a set of working notes for their boro line - let me know if you would like a copy.
The GA notes are an excellent resource, for all sorts of info on working boro.

Have fun,

Sean

[Steampunkglass]

Yep, I did a minor with one oxy for a while, I found the Pipyr tutorial a nice starting point, more to help me get up the nerve to start playing with it, although it was a little limited for technical info. Do spend some time reading all the free literature that the coloured boro people supply - lots and lots on line. Northstar and Glass alchemy have very good (and complicated!) downloadable manuals, TAG also (their range is smaller but very easy to work.)

The one thing you will find is you'll have a lot better time if you learn each colour's requirements first - hardly any colour you pick up will be the same colour when it's melted. Label everything!!!!! I have half a dozen 'blue black' rods, when they are melted they can turn into anything from green, blue, cream, indigo, and various shade of grot when I get it wrong! It's a different way of working than soft glass where you are 95% of time picking up a rod that looks green, that will be same shade of green when you finish. Learn what the rod is supposed to do first, does it strike?, need reducing? or oxidising? etc before you start and you're halfway there already 

You will probably find that the colours don't always do what you expect anyway, I had problems recently with working too quickly because I'd got more confident, which meant I wasn't heating my purples long enough for them to go purple later on. Back to the manuals and swotting and asking (annoying!  ) other people before I realised what a daft mistake I was making.

I do find that some colours I find fantastic others hate and can't get a decent colour out of- and visa versa!    You will definetely find that too!!!! It's as much your way of working as the glass I think.

The good news is a little will go a long way, use lots of clear 

I did have to get a second oxycon (and I will get a bigger torch too sometime) mostly because I had problems not just with melting speed but over-reduction. When a solid black turned cream I knew I had to get a second one.

I hope that is helpful and hasn't put anyone off! These are just a few random things that I found when I went over to boro. It's a lot more to learn to get more out of the glass, but once you get into it you won't look back. I tried some soft glass again a few weeks ago and got fed up of if spitting glass at me everytime I stuck a rod in the flame! 

[Trudi]

LOL

It will be just beads - but I was looking on off-mandrel and they have some great colours, just no clear!


Am I right in thinking that you don't have to worry about keeping the bead as warm as you do with softer glass?

[garishglobes]

You definitely get a lot more working time, but there are other considerations that come into play. Also you do still need to remember to add some heat every now and then. Many of the silver glasses seem to like being kept hot and then cooled and reheated. Too many cool down/reheat cycles throws them right off and they go muddy or stop wanting to play. Having said that, I can make an implosion, lay it on the table and go and make an end, come back to the implosion and just join the two together without any problems. There is also a lot less shocky glass.
The TAG colours are lovely, Elvis is my favourite red ever. (sorry Glenn! )

Everyone needs a dark side!

[Steampunkglass]

 Appart from warming up large sized clear rods (and some opaque colours that are temperamental) most stuff goes straight into the flame. Physically cut ends of large rods (rather than flame cut) sometimes will crack and spit a little, especially larger diameters. (Martin stocks clear)

I still prefer to let stuff cool a little slowly, especially if it's a bit larger or has a lot of work in it, as I've had some larger marbles crack when cooling   so will garage stuff in the kiln as I work. However I often will do a few small 20-25mm marbles in the evenings now and leave to cool in a cold kiln and (touch wood) don't have many of those crack, just leave then in there then anneal properly when the kiln next comes on to warm up with the kiln.

Modifided to say; wot Emma just said when I was typing this! She gets better colours than me so I will bow to her superior knowledge (even if she likes that Communist Elvis !)

[Forester18]

Love using boro and agree with all that has been said. I find it OK with one oxycon providing the rods are small diameter. However it does take longer to melt. I have a large stock of clear boro from when I used to make small sculptures some years ago so at some stage I intend getting a 2nd oxycon. I think the one question which hasn't been answered yet is about annealing. The size of the object will determine the soaking time, for small beads say about 30mins. Both soaking temps and annealing are the same. Annealing temp is 1050F - 566C.
Frederick

[garishglobes]

Oh, another thing - don't use thin, thin (ie 1.6mm) mandrels! They'll just melt too often to be fun. Go for 2mm at least.

[saffie]

I assume the hold and cool down for an anneal can be borrowed from my 104 annealing schedule just make the temp higher to 566. I did read that long holds at annealing temp can affect some of the glasses and kiln striking and getting muddy grey colours Is there a max time for a hold?

Sam
x

[garishglobes]

I don't think it is quite as straightforward as that. I garage at 505, then ramp up to 565 at 80 degrees to anneal for an hour. I then ramp down at 90 to 510 to let the glass "rest" for 10 mins and then down to 370 and switch off. I think this last bit is conservative. However, if you want to strike the glass in the kiln, you can take it up a lot higher than 565 for a few minutes. I have seen schedules where people do this twice, cooling between, presumably to strike more. I prefer to strike in the flame so I know what I'm getting but some glasses do prefer kiln striking. I also garage cooler than a lot of schedules I've seen.
I'd say an hour is plenty to anneal at for beads. I've never added extra mud in the kiln. My mud has always come at the torch! 

[Steampunkglass]

I read elsewhere there are as many boro annealing shedules as boro workers!

Now bear in mind I am ultra conservative, plus I am annealing much thicker items;

I garage a bit higher, about 540, but I am starting to garage at a low temp (about same as Emma) as I think that was a bit excessive.

I ramp up to about 582 for 1/2hr - this is to kiln strike any transparents reds, then down to 567 for one hour. I then do a 45deg hour drop to about 525 and hold for another 2hrs, then ramp down at 55deg hour to 370.

This is a very, very slow program, you probably don't need the second hold, but like I say I am annealing thick objects and I want to play it safe. I have been experimenting with an even higher initial strike to about 605 deg for 20mins to strike some of the purples and the reds, as I personally find I get deeper purples that way.

This is all personal way of doing it, I am more than open to better shedules!

[Forester18]

566C should be fine. Boro is very sympathetic. Have worked it over 25mm dia and held at low temp without it cracking when making dolphins then annealed at 566C held for about 1 hr and ramped down with no problemo.
Frederick