What Grinder???

Flippopotamus · June 05, 2009, 05:24:27 PM

Hi All,
I want a grinder!!! I make a mixture of leaded panels and fused glass (usually combining the two), and have been playing with dichro cabochons and small fused bowls as well, so it looks like a combo of classic glass grinder and flat lap would be best. I have a gathering pile of pieces needing 'tweaking'!!!

So the options look like either Inland Swaptop or Twinspin. The swaptop looks the more versatile, and comes with a full set of discs right down to polishing, though the twinspin is cheaper (& Warm Glass have the conversion kit on special at the mo') and has the advantage of having both disk and grinder available at the same time.....

So I'm hoping you lovely forum people will throw in your experiences and opinions!! I've seen a few references to swaptops, but they mostly seem to consist of 'it's in the box and I haven't tested it yet...'!!! Has anyone used these? What do you think? Any problems? etc... etc....

Or does anyone out there want to sell me one of these?? ?? (Can't help but ask...)

All help & suggestions gratefully received
Flip

(PS Can you believe I've run up 28 hours' lurking on FH, with only about 14 posts - what a shocking average! I promise to post some piccies of my work soon - for someone who works in IT I'm a chronic technophobe & haven't yet tackled photobucket...)

bluefairy · June 05, 2009, 05:41:11 PM

I've got the swaptop and I love it!! Only got the grinder at the mo but am planning on getting the flat lap etc at some point. I've also got the flex shaft to go with it, it's brilliant

Sulis (Hazel) · June 05, 2009, 06:04:54 PM

Wish I had a swap top!! I have a standard Inland grinder - I think it's a diamond star. It's very good at what it does, but it's not as versatile as a swap top. I have a hankering to flat lap stuff.

Zeldazog · June 05, 2009, 06:17:13 PM

I've got the inland flat lap 6", with the grinder conversion kit, so far I have only used the roughest grit (I'm the one that had it 6 months before I had time to open the box)

- but I am impressed so far. For performance, it certainly matches the £400 lap that the college had (although that was a much bigger disc).

I've not used the Twinspin model though, to be honest, I didn't know they did the lap disc for that.

I got my flat lap when it was on offer, £50 discount - that was October/November - I have noticed that Warm glass regularly put things up for sale quite regularly, I only had to wait about six months for it to come back on offer, so might be due to come on sale again.

Don't know much about the Twinspin, what I can tell you about the Swaptop is that the speed is adjustable, something I didn't realise when I bought it. AND, if you do get the 6" machine, you can upgrade to 8" discs later if you want to - its the same base unit, again something I never realised.

And of course, you can also buy the trim-saw top for it too.

Where abouts are you? You're welcome to come have a play if you're near the midlands (well up to you how far you come from, but that is where I am!)

Pat from Canvey · June 05, 2009, 07:00:10 PM

I've got the 8 inch swap top but using it as a flat lap at the moment. I've encountered problems when using the polishing pad since it seems to put a few grazes into the flat surface. I've posted on the Torch Forum of Silicon folly for advice and been told that sometimes the 1200 disc might have a few diamonds that need to be worn down a bit before giving a better finish. I'll persevere and have consulted the guide on the Inland Site. I've used Di East's 12 inch flat lap and had a really good finish with it on a number of beads. I've also been advised to wet down the felt lap then turn off the water flow before loading the pad with the polishing compound. I'll try it and see if it improves matters.

Zeldazog · June 05, 2009, 07:02:20 PM

Was wondering how you'd got on Pat, still not had a chance to use the polishing pad, but to be honest, I have nothing to compare it with as we didn't have that facility at college anyway.

Pat from Canvey · June 06, 2009, 03:13:14 PM

I've finally taken a picture of the bead I've now ground on both sides. It still has minute scratches on both surfaces. It's 45 mm long and was originally about 25 mm wide.

You can see through to the central core which I've kept rough to add a bit of interest.

Lloki · June 07, 2009, 12:38:30 AM

I've got a Galstar super star II grinder and I would highly recommend it for a hobby grinder.
I've had it for approaching two years (moderate use), it's easy to use and simple to maintain (just scrape out any glass debris from the cooling "tray" when necessary and you're ready to go again). I always use a coolant with the water and have the "brush system" recommended from Tempsford. It's easy to swap grinding bits and basically I think it's bloody brilliant

About 8 months ago I got an Inland 8inch Flat Lap, thinking I could save myself a fire polishing. I'm quite a fastidious person and followed the instructions to the letter. I was quite disappointed with the results - 6 hours to achieve "average" results? (believe me, once you get a minute scratch in there, I've found it almost impossible to get rid of it without going back to 400 grit) sounds OK? Not, if you've got multiple pieces to do - changing the disks will drive you mad, you'll have to wash down every piece between grit changes and it just takes to long

I really thought getting the Inland would save time and be more adaptable - for me and my type of pieces it just doesn't work

I think what I'm trying to say is - get the tool for the job!
I really though I'd made a mistake getting the Galstar grinder when I could have got a Swaptop and have the option of doing many jobs, now, for me, I realise that if I need to polish I'm going to stick it in the kiln (yes, I know I'll have a dull side - but believe me it beats 6 hours polishing any day!)

Standing back for incoming

Pat from Canvey · June 07, 2009, 07:13:46 AM

No incoming from me. I've been very disappointed. I must also add that the screw that regulates the flow of water to the laps became loose after about 30 minutes of use.It refuses to reseat itself in the plastic surround.

Lloki · June 07, 2009, 08:29:44 AM

I know what you mean Pat, I really thought the Flat Lap was going to be huge asset, but I just can't get the finish I want, so I just don't use it any more

My grinder however is going to get a huge work out today. Lovely Sulis took me to Reading Stained Glass yesterday (I spent a small fortune!) so I've got the glass for my splash back project

I explained to the experts what I was planning on doing and they recommended sealing the back and sides of the MDF with watered down PVA as well, a bit like counter enamelling, so I'll give that a go.

Zeldazog · June 07, 2009, 09:17:24 AM

I have to say, I didn't buy the flat lap for its polishing capabilities - I was really looking for its grinding capabilities, which so far I am happy with (still not had much time to play).

With the college and uni grinders, I have tended to just reshape pieces and full fire, or bevelled edges and fire polish. Even on the lowest grade, my Inland gave a nicer finish than the linisher at Uni. It was a satin effect, rather than the milky white that leaves. So I am hoping that the higher grades might give a good enough finish (so long as I don't want mirror shine!)

Whilst it would be nice to get a highly polished surface, perhaps its too much to expect of a £200 hobby machine. Sam, who I did glass casting with, used to work for Stuart Ackroyd, and got lumbered with his cold-working - she used to spend hours and hours and hours grinding and polishing, and that's with pieces of kit dedicated for the job costing many hundreds of pounds each. And I think our lovely Becky (Chameleon) spend days (weeks?) cold-working her degree show work.

I've used models like the Glastar, and that grinder design is excellent for inside curves, and with the guides, straight edges on pendant size pieces (hence why I asked for the grinder/shaper swaptop for last Xmas) - but I found the flat discs easier to get straight edges or bevels on bigger pieces.

Whilst it would be nice to not have to change the discs, or swap the top, I work in my kitchen (which currently looks more like a glass workshop), so space is at a premium. I do think I will find myself buying an extra brass arbor or three to save that bit of messing around. Putting the assembled disk and arbor onto the machine is quick and easy enough, so if I already had the other disks assembled and ready to go, it would make things less of p.i.t.a.

This was the sort of thing they had at college

http://www.creativeglassshop.co.uk/product_details_1552.htm

With magnetic disks that take seconds to change (in theory, lol, when you can get them off!), a constant water feed, and a full disk area top to use - but, I can't afford over £1000 for the unit, and between £60 and £220 per disk, for the luxury of it.

I've still got to use mine some more, so my opinion of my Inland swap top might change, but I have to say, for under £200 for the whole kit, I am very happy.

Flippopotamus · June 09, 2009, 06:13:28 PM

Thanks everyone for such useful comments & suggestions. I'm still undecided!!! I might have to hang out and hope Warm Glass do a sale, though they have advised that if they do, it will be later in the year....

Good points about polishing - maybe I just hope too much! One of the projects waiting to happen is this bowl (and yes, I've finally sussed photobucket!! Though perhaps this image will appear too large....

) Somehow it stuck to the mould when slumping - this could be because I've crammed an oversized mould into my SC2 by filing off some of the base, so the heating is probably a bit uneven...

Advice seems to be against attempting to fire polish a previously slumped piece. But as you can see I'll either need to do a good polishing job on this, or else risk the firepolish route...

Anyone have any other suggestions?

Flip

Flyingcheesetoastie · June 09, 2009, 06:39:23 PM

I have a 12 inch crystal master with 60, 170, 220, 320 & felt pad which I bought from the states. It's amazing, I can smooth off a square of glass in 45 seconds! It was £2K incl shipping & VAT but well worth it if you plan on doing a lot of polishing!

Lloki · June 09, 2009, 07:15:53 PM

Sounds amazing, just goes to show, you get what you pay for!
If you ever want to sell it? ...........

No ideas for the bowl, sorry! (It's very Christmassy - lovely green)

Zeldazog · June 09, 2009, 07:55:16 PM

Quote from: Lloki on June 09, 2009, 07:15:53 PM
Sounds amazing, just goes to show, you get what you pay for!

I think that's exactly the point, isn't really, Cerri - I really, really, really don't expect my sub £200 inland to be able to do anything like as good a job as Rachel's crystal master. Why would it?

Flip, what temperature did you take your slump firing to, and do you know your kiln well enough to know if it runs hotter than it reads, where the hotspots are, etc?

(Nice colours BTW! I'm guessing that's aventurine....)

I'd probably grind the uneveness away, but also grind the rim all way round - then put back in the kiln, in the mold and take it to the lowest possible fire polish temperature - I've achieved a fire polish at 700 C, but it doesn't soften the glass enough to reshape the edges, so if you DON'T grind the full rim, you'll get different angles (if any of that makes sense!) - you'll get soft edges from original firing, and angular edges from the grind/fire polish.

And don't forget to check whether you might need to slow your firing schedule down, and increase anneal soak as i will be, what third visit to the kiln?