Advice on buying a kiln

[DonnaMarie2805]

Hi my name is Donna,

I am wanting to get started fusing glass and would like some advise on which is the best kiln to go for as I'm a beginner.  I hope to do panels and plates, and decorative items using moulds etc.  I don't want to go for anything too small as I am hoping to do larger items as I progress!  I have been looking at a few different models and wondered if anyone can help guide me as to which is the best buy.  The Skutt Firebox 14 14.5" x 6.5", Skutt HotStart Pro 15" x 6.5" and the Kilncare Hobbyfuser 420 x 420 x 200mm (although its a lot more money, but thought it might be better buy, as larger interior) and the Paragon Fusion 8 17.5" x 9" are the ones I have been viewing.  I also saw a Paragon Pearl 18, but didn't see the internal measurements on the sellers website.  As I am hoping to set up in my utility room or garage I will just be running it on a normal household plug.  What maximum temperature is recommended for a fusing kiln, to have a decent model that will perform for many years and which is best for even temperature top or front opening?

Any advice will be greatly appreciated!


Thank you.


Donna

[Zeldazog]

Hi Donna

Welcome to FHF.

Firstly, if you're running off household plug, you can discount the Pearl is it needs a seperate power supply.

According to here, the normal Fusion 8 needs a 30A supply, (so I think that means hardwired in like a cooker) - they don't recommend the "lightweight" 13amp version, but I don't know about it.

I personally have a Hotstart Pro, and I am very happy it.  However, I wish the Firebox 14 had been out when I bought it as, although you can get loads of smaller pieces in, you're a bit restricted on larger square shapes.  Although they're around the same dimension at the widest point, the largest square you can get in a Hotstart Pro is about 10" inside the heptagonal shape.  Where as the new Firebox 14 you can get a full 13" in it.

I was confident in buying the Hotstart, as I got it from Warm Glass, and trust their back up.  However, had I been able to afford it, and had the space, I would definitely have bought the Hobbyfuser.  It may be more money, but you get the back up of it being made in the UK.  Also, the Hobbyfuser is clamshell design.  Easier to load. 

I would definitely recommend top loading over front loading if you're planning on just or mainly fusing.  There is more chance of uneven firing with a front loader, as they tend to have elements only on three sides, and of course, is the door as well insulated as the other three sides?  Most dedicated fusing kilns have elements in the lid, giving even firing, although top loading ceramics kilns can be used too, you just have to be more careful about firing speeds due to more heat coming from the sides than the middle. You can get more in though, as you can usually stack shelves in a side firing, something you can't do in a top firing kiln.

Any of those you mention are okay for fusing - recommendations are that you have a kiln that can fire well above the usual temperature you want it for - you don't really want to be running your kiln at full whack every time. 

You need to consider whether you might want to do anything else in your kiln - pot melts for instance need higher temperatures, and some casting techniques.  My Hotstart is supposed to go to 870C according to Warm Glass site - but the Skutt site says 925 - so that's probably down to not running at max temperature.  So, its not quite hot enough for a few techniques I might want to try.  So that's something worth checking too (not sure what the Hobbyfuser goes too, is it 1000C?).

If you browse the threads on here, you'll see many that have discussed the merits and downfalls of kiln selection. 

The conclusion I came to long ago, as that there is no ONE kiln that will do everything you want to do.  I started as a fuser, want to do lampwork, but my kiln, whilst will batch anneal, would be no good for annealing as I go.  Also, although its very efficient, and only uses about 50p per firing, its a biggie for doing just small samples.  Oh, and not much use for things like enamelling.  Not sure if any good for silver clay either!

In all honesty, I would recommend finding more about the subject of fusing before you invest a few hundred pounds in a kiln, so you know more about what you need.

[dinah46]

Absolutely what Dawn said - what a good answer

I would only emphasize that you definitely need to consider everything that want to do in it and check the inner dimensions and depth.  I have an evenheat that I got several years ago from Pearsons Glass with top elements 500mm x 400mm x 17mm and can do all but the larger plate moulds.

A pot melt of any decent size would be tricky in my kiln as it lacks enough depth

[Zeldazog]

Absolutely what Dawn said - what a good answer


A pot melt of any decent size would be tricky in my kiln as it lacks enough depth

Thanks Di!

That's a very good point about the depth of the kiln too - I wouldn't be able to do a much of a pot melt in mine either - be a very shallow pot!

And I also encountered a problem when I wanted to slump into a large stainless bowl that I had from Ikea (used it before, great shape) - the bowl fits in, but glass is too close to the elements.

[Diane]

Hi -

A pot melt of any decent size would be tricky in my kiln as it lacks enough depth

As I'm not a fuser would you please tell me what one of these is?  I think I have an idea but not sure.

Diane x

[Zeldazog]

http://www.kiloalphatango.com/latest_pot_melt

http://www.kiloalphatango.com/pot_melts

http://www.clearwaterglass.com/Tutorials/TutorialAperturePour.html

Here's a few examples/tutorials, Diane.

Basically, you fill a pot with bits of glass, assorted colours (not too much dark or black, as it will dominate), which has a hole in the bottom.  Different shape holes will result in a different flow pattern.

Underneath the pot, something to catch the glass - as it melts, it will drip through the hole and form a flat disk of random and interesting patterns - this can then be cut up and used for smaller bits, or if its an even pour you can use them as panels, or bowls, etc.

Sometimes called an Aperture Pour.

[dinah46]

Pot melts are still on my list of things to do, but that list just keeps getting longer

Also on the list is the paperweight - I bought a mould for this yonks ago but chickened out when I realised how long it had to anneal

[Diane]

Here's a few examples/tutorials, Diane.

Thanks Dawn - that looks really interesting - but for now I'll have to stick to beadmaking - too many things to do - too little time

Diane x

[Zeldazog]

Pot melts are still on my list of things to do, but that list just keeps getting longer

Yup, add pot melts to my list too. Along with lamp working. Pate de Verre.  Frit casting.  Silver clay. Enameling.  Oh, printing on glass....

endless.

[dinah46]

Pot melts are still on my list of things to do, but that list just keeps getting longer

Yup, add pot melts to my list too. Along with lamp working. Pate de Verre.  Frit casting.  Silver clay. Enameling.  Oh, printing on glass....

endless.

Is that all

[Zeldazog]

Pot melts are still on my list of things to do, but that list just keeps getting longer

Yup, add pot melts to my list too. Along with lamp working. Pate de Verre.  Frit casting.  Silver clay. Enameling.  Oh, printing on glass....

endless.

Is that all

Of course not       (just all I could think about right now, seeing as I should be doing homework for assessment tomorrow....)

[Pat from Canvey]

Dawn, you could use a plant terracotta saucer for a pot melt if you drill a hole in the bottom. The small ones are only about an inch high. You could get a melt about 4 inches accross for starters to see if you like doing them. Then you could experiment with different sizes and placement of holes. Terracotta is fine. I do all melts in those and the small pots are really cheap from the garden centre. No batt wash as it contaminates the melt. Ideally don't re-use the pot, just throw away.

[Zeldazog]

Thanks for that info Pat, I am just not sure my kiln can get hot enough anyway  - what temperature to you fire your pot melts to and what glass do you use?

[Pat from Canvey]

Hi Dawn, I used to use 930 degrees centigrade and made the melts in my old ceramic kiln which is fairly large. As long as you keep the COE's apart you can use any glass you like. Spectrum fusible or waterglass has similar COE's and all the 104 COE's can go in together. Just don't put in too much black as it overwhelms the other colours. One tip is to make sure the shelf you are melting onto is level or you will get the melt spilling one way and not get a circle. Maybe if your kiln will not get hot enough you can try it at Uni in one of the ceramic kilns. I also used to weigh my glass in order to determine what weight would give what circumference of melt. You don't want too much glass as it will spill off the shelf. Let me know if you want more info. As my kiln was large, when all the glass had melted from the pot, I just turned the kiln off and left it to cool naturally overnight. Don't forget to wear protective glasses when looking into the kiln and only keep the door open for a few seconds at a time.

[Zeldazog]

Thanks for that Pat, that's useful.

I only have Bullseye anyway, well apart from float glass, as I don't do lamp-working (yet  ), so I have no 104 (yet   )

In theory, I think my kiln can go to 925, but that it's absolute top temp, it's listed as an 870 deg C top temp.


Good tip about shelf levelling!  I wouldn't have thought of that TBH.

But of course I can do it at Uni!!  Summer project here were come.....I know the technician will let me have a go, he likes any experiments, and he's rather partial to a bit of glass work himself.