MAPP gas??

[Redhotsal]

You CAN get propane in the same size cylinders as the Mapp gas cylinders. They're blue.
They WILL work with your hothead but they're not nearly as good as getting a large cylinder because of the problems with pressure drop. They also don't seem to burn as efficiently (in my opinion) as the bigger cylinders.

Mapp gas is propadiene, which is basically pimped up propane - it will burn hotter and more efficiently. It makes better use of the air that the hothead sucks in through that nosy airhole system at the bottom of the torch head. You need to have air in your gas mix or your glass colours will turn sludgy and grey/brown. The little propnae cylinders don't seem to make the best use of the air going in - but they will work. However, you will get more sludgy beads because you haven't got enough air in the system. Bulk propane seems to make the torch work better as it doesn't suffer from the annoying pressure drop problem that you get with the little cylinders, hence the burn temperature stays up and the flame doesn't shrink in size over a period of time.

Get a bulk propane hose from Martin Tuffnelll and then go and get a 3.9kg bottle of propane (or 6kg if you have the room as 6 costs the same as 3.9kg). The total cost of hoses, reg, flashback arrestor (all part of the bulk propnae kit) will be £110 and the cost of a cylinder will be about £15, although if you are buying one for te first time they'll rush you for a £25 "Contract". See if you can blag an old one from somewhere - try the dump - and you'll save yourself £25.

I've said you need "air" but in fact "oxygen" is really what you need. Although you don't require oxygen for the hothead. If you go for a bigger torch you'll need a separate propane supply and a separate oxygen supply. This is where the oxycon comes in - but you won't require it for the hothead.

If you are really confused by all this you might want to save up and have a lesson with someone? A decent teacher should be able to talk you through all of this. It IS a struggle when you are trying to find all this out by yourself. I teach gas and equipment set up as a standard part of my basic lesson.

[lorrainelee]

If you are really confused by all this you might want to save up and have a lesson with someone? A decent teacher should be able to talk you through all of this. It IS a struggle when you are trying to find all this out by yourself. I teach gas and equipment set up as a standard part of my basic lesson.

Having had a lesson with Sally I can confirm that her advice on setting up your equipment is very thorough and very, very useful.  I'd done all the reading up prior to my lesson but, having someone who knows what they are talking about showing you what to do is priceless.
Lorraine

[julieHB]

I am totally with Sal!

Our local recycling centre offers the orange propane gas cylinders for £10 (important, they must be of the orange type, like the ones for gas BBQs). I got myself the 6kg ones, but you need to and see which ones they have. It cost £12-£15 to change it, but it lasts for about 60 hours. The math is easy, and even if you pay up for the connections it won't take long before you become more cost-efficient than keep buying Mapp (or similar) cylinders. I only bought 2, and then switched to bulk.

Another more important aspect with using bulk for me was that I didn't have to hurry before the canister froze up, and I didn't have to discard a half made bead!! So much less stressful 

[amewat]

thank you so much guys an sal u should write a book!!. lampworking for dummies lol cause that ws  the simple straight forward info i was looking for lol and i really wish i could get a lesson butt unfort i live in northern ireland and i dont no of anyone who does it here that wold be easy to get to. mayb ill b the first lol. thanks again.

[Rockpooljewels]

I got my Mapp gas last week in B&Q, it was £15!!! Got my hothead today, and I have to say..5 glass blobs later and the canister now only feels half full!!! I am going to have to go to bulk immediately, because I can't afford to teach myself this if I am paying £15 every few blobs..lol

Already after 1 day I can see that bulk is the only way. If you can do it then do, don't even waste the first £15.

Hope this helps,

Mandyx

[Sarah999]

Hi.

I have been looking for MAPP gas too as I have just bought a hot head. It is really expensive in B&Q (£15.00)

I found that on Tools4Trade it is only 8.99 for one canister, or if you can afford to buy 12 they do them for 7.99 each.

It is also only £3.99 postage, so if you buy say 3 (as I did) that only costs £30.50 ish -  About the same as 2 canisters from B&Q.
It is also next day delivery so you only have to hold out for a day!

So if like me you cant afford the connector then buying online will save you £15 each time you buy 3. (Pbvilusly the more you buy in one go the more you save though).

I was also told that using propane will not only make your beads go sludgey but will also damage your torch after a while, is this true?
xxx

[Redhotsal]

Well, they make a big thing of the hothead being designed to run on Mapp gas rather than propane, but I've had one of my hotheads for about five years and it's only ever been run on propane and is still going strong.

What they seriously don't like is being turned off too tightly - that'll damage them and being used upsidedown to get to a tricky pipe when doing the plumbing. Both of those techniques have been widely used by my other half and he successfully managed to muller my original hothead. Although - he took it all apart and cleaned it up and it does again work. But seriously - I wouldn't worry about any damage coming from propane.

[Redhotsal]

Meant to add - because the propane will burn at a lower temperature than the Mapp you will be more tempted to:
a) turn up the flame and b) work lower down in the flame. If you are not careful this WILL make the beads go sludgey. You will have to accept that you will be slightly slower working on propane than Mapp - i.e. you'll need to work further out in the flame and if things are going sludgy turn the flame down a little, but really and truly most people won't notice the change after a session or two. It's worth it when you look at the difference in cost.

Sorry - edited to say "lower down in the flame"

[Rockpooljewels]

I am taking your advice Sal, and going bulk...

My DH is a gas plumber so luckily he will set me up a little cheaper, he gets discount on the type of stuff needed to go bulk.
My canister of Mapp is officially empty after.....wait for it...3 hrs of torch time...it just isn't enough to justify even £8 I don't think. And the ice on the bottom after about 20 mins just made the flame sooooooo slow...nah can't be a***d with it.

Soo twiddling my thumbs today while I wait for the gas bits and bobs to arrive 

Looking at the standard of beads acheived by the hothead/propane set up I can see that it's not going to be a problem...well when I learn how to do it that is..lol

Anyhoo TTFN

Mandyx

[leisler]

If you're still looking for Mapp gas this firm is based in Bangor and is much cheaper than B&Q (both the Newtownabbey and Holywood branches stock it in the plumbing section).

http://www.gasproducts.co.uk/acatalog/Bullfinch_453gm_Mapp_Gas_Cartridge.html

[Katiequiggle]

Mandy, I only ever get a dirty bead when I first put a new cansiter on, sometimes it needs half an hour before it burns totally clean, and sometimes towards the very end of a canister.  All my beads have been made on a hothead with bulk propane.  You will really notice a difference especially in the time factor.  I turn my torch on about 10am and it doesn't got off apart from a loo/lunch break until the kids come home from school and this is about 3 times a week, a 3.5kg (the heaviest I can carry my self or I'd get a bigger one) last me at least a couple of months probably more, I must mark it on the calender to see.  Its fab not having to worry about running out and it only costs me £21 for a refil so its paid for itself already. I only ever had 2 mapp tins, though I do keep one for when I do the odd demo out and about.

Its not a lot slower well to be honest I can't remember what its like with mapp now and I know lots of us on Frit use bulk with no problems at all.  I actually think that a hothead for a beginner is better than a torch that uses propane and oxygen because it is slower and this gives you more time to think about what you are doing.

Good luck and please let us see your beads.

Kate x

[lemon kitten]

I can only agree with all Sal has to say.  I NEVER went down the Mapp Gas road when I first started, I just got the bulk hose from Martin and blagged a red 19kilo prophane cannister from a mate!  Mapp is C**p.

Janey x

[Zia]

been reading this and thinking of "upgrading" my little Rothenberger set up for ...well something thats not going to cost a fortune!

You all have mentioned things like more gas, oxygen and a hot head..

Setting up a good torch with oxygen etc is really exp here, and then I would really need a proper annealing oven first.

no point in making good beads that arent annealed properly...or so it seems

wonders where one gets a hothead via internet and if its on a pipe...how does it "stand" up... I have a fixture "homemade" that holds the bottle atm...but a pipe....
I am not ready to use oxygen yet ...

any suggestions would be welcome....

smiles

[squirsygirl]

Tufnell's your best bet:

www.tufnellglass.com

I think most of us with HH's have a way of securing the torch - I'll try and post a pikkie later.

But beware, you'll all too quickly become addicted!


Kirsty

[Katiequiggle]

My Father in law made a bracket thing that attatches to my workbench and then my  hothead attatches to that via a big jubilee clip.  Its very strong and stable and the torch doesn't move once its in place.