Kiln Options

[kevie192]

Hi all,

Just thinking about which type of kiln to get and wondered if anyone had any recommendations?

I would primarily use it for beads BUT I also like the thought of being able to do some fusing and flattening wine bottles. How much would it cost for this size? If it's too much maybe I'll forget the wine bottle idea 

If I just wanted one for beads, how much am I looking at for that? Are there any advantages of using a smaller kiln?

Thanks for any help or advice,

Kevin x

[glassworks]

anyone making slumped pieces got advice here?... i seem to remember a thread about using the caldera with a bead collar for both of these kinds of projects?.. was it billie that had a go?.. someone with a caldera anyway?..

there is a great new small bead kiln out there which folks on here have been trying?.. i know di east has seen it and played with it - i am sure others will chime in quick enough..

we only have experience on the paragon range, but there are other options out there... feel free to pm me if you like - and also check out the "kiln doctor" section on here for lots of info... break a leg with your projects! 

[Sherry Bellamy]

I've got a Caldera; it gets plenty hot enough for fusing, (even firing ceramics!) but I don't think the interior dimensions would be large enough for a wine bottle. It's a dandy kiln though, can't recommend it highly enough.

[dinah46]

The caldera is great for fusing small cabs or coasters but it's interior usable space is about 7"x7" and you'd definitely need more than that even for small wine bottles.

I do my wine bottles in a evenheat kiln which has dimensions of about 50X40, not exact cos I'm in work and can't go and look. This sort of size is definitely a good one for general fusing of plates, bottles, coasters etc and also useful for batch annealing beads.

[kevie192]

Thanks for the answers so far

OK, so maybe I should get something like the Caldera to start small. I can always sell it and buy something bigger if needed.

I presume that larger kilns will batch anneal once I've got enough beads to fill the kiln. How does the "anneal as you go" thing work? Will a Caldera do that?

Sorry for all the questions...

Kevin x

[glassworks]

batch annealing is the same regardless of the kiln you go for... most of our "production" customers use it as it results in significant cost savings by only running the kiln once a day or once every two days or so.... for those who only have the chance to torcher on the weekends etc - but who then spend the whole day doing so - it would make sense to run the kiln continuously while working..

basically, you lump all your beads into the kiln, fire up the annealing schedule and off you go.. this requires a bit of planning to fit them all in, and a small metal rack does wonders to provide "hanging" space for all the mandrels that seem to build up!..

the "anneal as you go thing" i suspect means that you "garage" all your beads as you work (the caldera has a bead collar with a door in it for this) and then right at the end you programme the kiln to pop up to the annealing temp and then ramp down overnight... if you like i can email you the 3 basic annealing schedules we have found work best?.. it gives some outlines and is hopefully self evident as to how each one works?..

just checked our caldera's here and they will not take a wine bottle - but i made a slightly funky cheese board out of a stylish belgian beer bottle!... 

[kevie192]

In a complete u-turn I'm now thinking that perhaps I should go for the bead cube because that's nice and small, fairly cheap and goes up to fusing temperature. That way, in 6 months time, I can always sell it if I want to get into fusing. What do you think?

If I understand this correctly, with the bead cube you fire it up when you start and add the beads when they're done instead of putting them in vermiculite to keep them hot and then at the end, increase the temperature and anneal them all? Is that right?

Thanks again,

Kevin x

[Josephine]

Sounds like a good idea Kevin. If you do get into fusing I can recommend a kilncare hobbyfuser, big enough for 16 coasters or a wine bottle (maybe 2, can't remember). I have been using mine for batch annealing beads for the last 4 months while I waited for the new Maxi to be ready. I could have carried on batch annealing in the hobbyfuser ( I produce a lot of beads every week) but I prefer to anneal as I go along. You could fit an awful lot of beads in it if you had time to store them up and it gives a really good even heat for using. I think it is what Steph uses, could be wrong though.

[kevie192]

Sounds like a good idea Kevin. If you do get into fusing I can recommend a kilncare hobbyfuser, big enough for 16 coasters or a wine bottle (maybe 2, can't remember). I have been using mine for batch annealing beads for the last 4 months while I waited for the new Maxi to be ready. I could have carried on batch annealing in the hobbyfuser ( I produce a lot of beads every week) but I prefer to anneal as I go along. You could fit an awful lot of beads in it if you had time to store them up and it gives a really good even heat for using. I think it is what Steph uses, could be wrong though.

So you now use the method in the maxi that I described earlier for the bead cube?

Thanks,

Kevin x

[Josephine]

yes I put the beads in the hot kiln and start ramping down an hour or so after I finish for the day.

[Zeldazog]

The answer Kevin, is that there is almost certainly no ONE kiln for all your needs or future needs - I got a Skutt Hot Start Pro, which is fab for fusing, but I could only batch anneal if I were to get into bead making, and its not really suitable for silver clay, or enamelling, being a top heating, top loader.  I don't think it will do a pot melt - but as a top heater, it's extremely even heating, great for fusing.  As it is round, the biggest square I can do is not big as the biggest circle I can do (where as a big square kiln would take a circle the same diameter as the size of a square, if you get what I mean!!!)

I nearly had a caldera, a useful option because of its high heat (right up to stoneware), addable bead collar for if you want to anneal as you go, but as already pointed out, you'll only get a small beer bottle or a single coaster in there.  In theory, its portable, but that was an issue I had with it really.  More shortly on that.

New bead cube, looks fab, hot enough, full digital control, lightweight - you won't get much fusing in it though.

SC2/3 are always very popular, have a look through previous threads on here, there have been many discussions about kilns.


A few things to consider (which you don't always think about it, until the heavy lump of firebrick is sitting in your kitchen....


How much space to you have?  Will it have a permanent home?  Or do you need to put it away?  (This is where I struggled with Caldera - I needed to be able to put it away as I fuse in my kitchen, and although it wasn't too heavy, it was awkward to move and left kiln brick dust every where).

If money is an issue, consider one without a digital controller - harder work as you have to kiln sit, BUT you can save quite a bit of money, as that is a good proportion of costs.  Look at Kitiki/Prometheus, or there's a Bluebird's Caldera and Firefly, and Skutt's Hotbox.  Personally, I knew that I could be too easily distracted to kiln sit, but people manage quite well.

You said use mainly for beads, a maybe a bit of fusing and wine bottles - is that just something you'd like to have a go at?  Don't buy a kiln based on something you want to just have a go at - you might try it a couple of times, and that might be it, so it might not have been necessary to get that particular "extra".

Ideally, I would have probably three kilns.  My Hotstart, although I would love a Hobbyfuser to be able to do larger square panels and peices.  A bead cube, great for portability, can do the other things I want to have a go at, and if and when I get into bead making, so I could anneal on the go.  A caldera, because I have started to get into doing ceramic jewellery pieces - currently I hijack the corner of somebody else's firing at Uni, but would be nice to be able to fire small batches myself.

However, back to real life!  One thing that you will notice, is how well kilns hold their prices.  I have seen SC2s go for the same, even more than new prices, and recently somebody off the forums sold a nearly new Kitiki for not much less than new price.

So, if you do buy a kiln and think about changing it later, you will probably get a good price back - if you can bear to part with it!

Have a browse through the other kiln threads, there's loads of feedback and useful information.

[GoodMonkey]

Good advice there from Dawn

[Pat from Canvey]

One thing I picked up on in your post was that while beading and putting hot beads into the kiln, the kiln should be at the anneaing temperature, i.e.520 or so. Everyone seems to have their own preferences. Once you have finished beading for the day, you let the kiln anneal the beads at that temperature for at least an hour before you start the cooling phase. You don't bring the kiln up to annealing temperature once you've finished beading. It's aleady at that temperature. If you buy a kiln with a digital controller, you program the kiln and it does the necessary for you, changing cycles I mean.

[kevie192]

One thing I picked up on in your post was that while beading and putting hot beads into the kiln, the kiln should be at the anneaing temperature, i.e.520 or so. Everyone seems to have their own preferences. Once you have finished beading for the day, you let the kiln anneal the beads at that temperature for at least an hour before you start the cooling phase. You don't bring the kiln up to annealing temperature once you've finished beading. It's aleady at that temperature. If you buy a kiln with a digital controller, you program the kiln and it does the necessary for you, changing cycles I mean.

I see. Thanks for that

[Rachel]

Kevin

I may be selling my SC2 soon as I'm thinking of treating myself to a large pink thing!!

I anneal as I go although it doesn't have a bead door - I just have my mandrels cut to 7 1/2" and they fit in nicley.  I just thought as you're not far away from me it was worth mentioning - save all the hassle of posting it if you're interested.