Hi guys,
This is the the schedule I use for batch annealing my beads in my SC2 kiln.? I cool my beads in vermiculite straight from the flame, then take them off the mandrels when cold (leaving the bead release on), and make bead kebabs on old mandrels cut down to fit in my kiln.? Make sure the beads aren't touching, just in case the glass gets tacky and sticks together whilst annealing.? I place a piece of fibre board on the floor of my kiln to protect it from any mishaps, then I either support the kebabs on kiln shelf posts or use a steel wire mesh cradle to hold the mandrels.? I got the steel mesh from B+Q, and cut and bent it to fit inside my kiln.? There are many other ways of doing this, these are just the ways I've tried.
Anyway, here's the schedule:
PRO1 (or another free slot)
Ramp1 149C
Temp1 520C
Hold1 60mins
Ramp2 50C
Temp2 371C
Hold2 0000mins
Ramp3 0000
It's basically the schedule Lorna (Pixiewillow - thanks again Lorna :)) posted on GH a while ago, with a longer hold at 520C that will anneal beads up to about an inch in size.? If you are wanting to batch anneal larger beads, you will want to add more time to this hold segment to allow the glass stresses to be fully evened out before cooling.
Here are the kebab images - 1. kiln shelf post set up:
(https://i.ibb.co/BytXvBm/Kebabstand-L.jpg)
2. Wire mesh cradle set up:
(https://i.ibb.co/pjbNs0K/Meshmandrelstand-L.jpg)
If anyone has any other suggestions or schedules, please feel free to add them.
Cheers! ;D? HP x
Hi,
This is a great looking tutorial, and nice clear photos.
I have a general question which has always made me wonder. I always make big ole beads, so batch annealing is not really an option for me, but why do folks with table top kilns choose to batch anneal their beads instead of going straight from the torch to the hot kiln?
Hi Shannon,
Thanks :) - I thought I should post one, as I realized we didn't have one when Cathryn (Funky cow) mentioned it.
I batch anneal, cos I don't have a bead door, as I wanted to do fusing in my kiln too. Also, where I bead, there isn't really the room or facilities for a kiln anyway, so it seemed like the best option.
HP x
Just a quick question, i have had my kiln (SC2) for months but have not had the guts to use it, i find the instructions confusing and get put off but will definately give it a go now i have seen your helpful tips.I also want to batch anneal as i dont have a bead door and don't get very long to make beads so don't want to turn it on for a few beads at a time, But what do you do if you make a large bead as sometimes my larger beads crack after coming out of the flame & going in the Vermiculite? any ideas
cheers
Em ;D
Hi Em,
Awww go on - turn it on - it's not as scary as it sounds, honest. ;D? It took me a while to pluck up the courage to turn mine on, but once you've done it, you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.? I was lucky because a few of us on here got kilns at the same time, and after much girly panicking we finally did it. ;D
I couldn't get my head around the instructions either, and I'm usually good with technical stuff, some info appeared to be woefully out of date, and didn't even seem to relate to my kiln. ???? If it's of any help, I've got a fusing tutorial on my site, which I've nicked this text from and inserted the bead annealing schedule in to.? It walks you through turning the kiln on, and which buttons to press.? And tells you how to programme your kiln for batch annealing moretti beads up to an inch in size - here you go:
Things to remember:
1. Positioning of your kiln. Place it on a level, stable, fire proof surface at least 12 inches away from any other objects, as the outside of the kiln can get hot.
2. Check the inside of the kiln is clean and dust free.
3.? You should really do an empty test firing of a new kiln before using it, to burn off any impurities in the kiln walls.? I just ran one of the preprogrammed SPEED firings - but I'm not sure this is as vital if you are just annealing???? So you can probably skip this.? Anyway - on to button pressing. ;)
Programming your kiln:
1. Stick the plaster cone bung in the hole in the top of the SC2 if you have one.
2. Then put the fibreboard and bead kebabs into your kiln as mentioned above.
3. Shut the door carefully and you are ready to go!
4. Flip the power switch to ON. (It?ll beep very loudly then flash ?idle?.) (If it's not showing 'idle' on the display press START/STOP once and it should do.)
5. Press START/STOP and then press UP til you get to Pr01 (or pick another ?Pr? if this is already programmed and in use.)
6. Then press START again and enter the following numbers by using the UP and DOWN arrow keys (Press START/STOP after each entry to move onto the next):
Ramp1 149C
Temp1 520C
Hold1 60mins
Ramp2 50C
Temp2 371C
Hold2 0000mins
Ramp3 0000
7. Press START again and ?Strt? will show on the screen, then press START once more to actually begin the schedule. There will then be a lot of loud clicking until the programme has finished, but this is absolutely normal.? My what a lot of starts! ;D
If you panic at this point and want to turn the kiln off (which is what I did ;D), you can press the START button again, and it will stop the kiln.? Or alternatively you can just flip the power switch off, and go and have medicinal glass of wine and a lie down.? :-\? The programme will be now be stored in the slot or 'Pr' where you just put it, so when you come to run it again, all you do is press the START button several times to scroll through it, til the 'Strt' message appears on the screen.? This also means you can scroll through and check you've entered the correct numbers, and change any if needs be.
If you are at all worried about running the kiln, do it during the day, or at a time you can keep an eye on it.? I have a smoke alarm positioned over mine, for extra peace of mind, as I tend to run mine over night, and it's in the room next to where I sleep.? So if anything goes wrong hopefully I'd know about it. :o
And finally after all that waffle from me - about your cracking big beads.? It is much less likely to happen if you put your beads straight into the kiln through a bead door, than it is if you use vermiculite. Big beads and sculpturals are much more unpredictable and stressy, so are more prone to cracking. :(? I have to admit to thinking about buying a separate bead door for my kiln (which is possible), when I get a better studio set up.? Other than trying to even out the heat in the bead before it gets dunked in the vermiculite, I don't know what else to suggest?
Ooops - sorry for the HUGE essay and my not-so-quick answer to your quick question - I hope it's been some help and not confused you more. ;D
Good luck Em, and get it switched on!!!!!? If you get stuck - you know where we are. :)
HP x
Cor !!
HP
You really are the kiln guru, aren't you !!!
Thanks on behalf of all newbie kiln operators.. :)
Hehehe! I know - it's laughable isn't it really. ;D 8 months ago, me and Helene were a pair of jibbering wrecks too scared to turn ours on!!! LOL! I don't know much really, but if it encourages a few more beaders into the throng I'm willing to share. ;D
HP x
Thank you sooo much for your valuable advice, it is very much appreciated! I will definately have a go. I wish i had bought one with a bead door but Martin wasn't selling them when i bought mine off him, i wonder if i was to ask nicely if i could change mine for one with a door as i haven't used it yet? maybe a bit cheeky though!
Anyhow thanks again i dont feel so stupid now.
Em ;)
thanks too I'll be getting my kiln this week! i have a lot of beads waiting for it too! trying not to make any more till their done!
Good luck Alice - you can fit heck of a lot in if you use the wire mesh version. :D I hope Em had a go too? ;D
HP x
Helen....you put the beads in the kiln cold??? :-\
does this mean all the beads i made from my early days ;) can go in the kiln?
a bit confused here lol
Yes I do. I cool them in the vermiculite, then pull them off the mandrels and make the kebabs. Doesn't matter when you made them, they can still be annealed using the batch anneal schedule. It means you can do all the ones you've made whilst you've been learning. ;)
HP x
WOW :o i never knew that Helen!!!!
thats exellent i thought i had to throw them all away!
Hey guys, sorry to pull up an old thread again !
I want to batch anneal a load of beads i have, they are still on their mandrels as they were made, would i be able to do this schedule buy putting all the beads in as they are through the bead door rather than making kebabs as i dont have kiln posts ?
Nicky, do you have anything to put on the bottom of your kiln?
i use a tile left over from doing my kitchen, pop the beads on that and away i go, you are suppost to get a kiln shelf with your kiln (i didn't, boo hiss) if you did you can use that
Oh ive got a kiln shelf, so i can just put that on the floor of the kiln and then place the unmandreled beads on to that ?
yeah, thats it ;D
cool - ill do that now !
Great this helps me - I've been making beads too - I've ordered my kiln and it's due next week - and I can't wait. But I find a lot of talk about shelves etc a bit confusing - but I guess when I have it in front of me and I can picture things it will make more sense!!
Is a shelf just a flat thing that covers the base of the kiln?
I have made some beads - taken them off the mandrels and cleaned them a bit - with a pipe cleaner - not a reamer (waiting for that) does this mean that these are more likely to break if I put them in the kiln - am I better off leaving them be!
If they are going to break with cleaning, it will happen while you are doing it. The ones that survived are fine to anneal. In future, better to leave them till after they are annealed, it's too easy to break them in half with a reamer!
Hi
So these should be ok to anneal then?
Thanks
T
Yep - they sound like they'll be fine to be annealed Trudi. Have fun with your kiln. :)
Hp x
OH MY GOD – please help me
Have just got my kiln and no wonder people are scared stiff to turn them on!! Why don't they write these things in plain English!
Nb – I have a paragon SC2 – with bead door
Do I need to do some sort of empty firing before I start on the beads?
Ok I need to batch anneal first as I have loads of beads!!
I don't understand all this talk of kiln wash / glass separator – if this was really necessary wouldn't this be supplied when I bought it – or wouldn't this have been advised to buy when I ordered – I ordered it direct from Cherry Heaven (but looked like the Paragon site when I logged in!)
I do have a shelf (It's at the parents house right now – wish I'd bought it round with me) – how do I know if it's a fiber or fireclay shelf – I think it's the fireclay one I need?? How do I tell what type I have? (I have ordered some ceramic blocks but they haven't arrived yet)
I thought that I'd need to put the beads onto the shelf – resting on the floor and then start the process? (I know that you can't put bead etc directly on the floor)
Venting – do I just need to leave the ceramic bung off – in the manual it says to remove it – but when the venting is complete – to put it back in to conserve energy for the rest of the firing! – when is that? (Helen's post earlier says to remove it completely)
I'm just wondering if there are different ways of doing things
Going from the schedule that Helen kindly posted – I just want to see if I understand this (daren't even look that the controller book yet – head hurts!)
PRO1 (or another free slot) _ I guess this is for pre-programming?
Ramp1 149C – not really sure what ramp means!
Temp1 520C – ok get this
Hold1 60mins – for 1 hour
Ramp2 78C - ?
Temp2 371C – ok temp
Hold2 0000mins – don't know why this is zero?
Ramp3 0000 – is this to turn it off / stop it?
After it stops – how long does it take to come down to room temp so that you can open it up?
After I've mastered this bit – I'll look at annealing using the bead door – but I can't figure out where the beads will rest inside the kiln yet – I'll figure out the batch process first!
Now where is my Jack Daniels ..........
Okay Trudi, step away from the bottle! Lol!
Kiln wash etc is for fusing and ceramics. Basically so melted glass and glaze won't stick. It's still a good idea to use thin bead release to coat the floor of the kiln, because kilns do go wrong and melt things into puddles, which would ruin the kiln floor.
Otherwise you don't really need anything in your kiln. Your ceramic shelf would be heavy, like a thick tile. You might have a fibre shelf which is good for laying directly on the floor, but won't bear weight if it's propped on supports.
Yes, do an empty firing, it burns off manufacture residue. It will smell and might smoke, leave the cone out so it escapes. Other firings leave the cone in. The hole is to let gases out, beads don't create any, you'll just let heat out.
Ramp is the speed the temp is changing, in degrees per hour. So on that schedule it climbs slowly, holds, then drops slowly. You don't need a second hold before the fast cool phase, after the second ramp. Ramp 3 isn't switching it off, it's just telling it there is no next segment, because you have the option of programming several (4 I think?) segments.
Wait till the displayed temp is room temp or thereabouts before opening it (be patient!). This will take maybe another hour or more.
Have I missed anything? Best of luck!
you sound just like I did a month & a half ago Trudi :D
Hehehe! What are you like - I was just as bad! Right - I'll attempt to answer all this - VERY LONG POST WARNING!!! Sorry!:
Do I need to do some sort of empty firing before I start on the beads? Yes - Turn kiln on and select SPD3 and then start it and let it run. This will crank the kiln up to a temp, then cool it down, which should burn off some of the impurities in the kiln lining. For this stage leave the BUNG OUT so any fumes can escape.
Ok I need to batch anneal first as I have loads of beads!!
I don't understand all this talk of kiln wash / glass separator – if this was really necessary wouldn't this be supplied when I bought it – or wouldn't this have been advised to buy when I ordered – I ordered it direct from Cherry Heaven (but looked like the Paragon site when I logged in!) Kiln wash is used to protect the bottom of the kiln just in case the kiln over heats and melts your beads. They are easier to remove from the bottom of the kiln, and will cause less damage if there is a barrier there - ie kiln wash, or fibre paper or board. I use the fibreboard square that came with my kiln. You should have one in a cardboard sandwich with your kiln. If not contact Rob or Petra. A spare ceramic kitchen or bathroom tile will do the job too.
I do have a shelf (It's at the parents house right now – wish I'd bought it round with me) – how do I know if it's a fiber or fireclay shelf – I think it's the fireclay one I need?? How do I tell what type I have? (I have ordered some ceramic blocks but they haven't arrived yet) You could use either type of shelf to line the bottom of your kiln for annealing, doesn't matter, both would do the job (but ONLY use a plaster one for fusing!!). A fibreboard shelf is just that, a thinnish, light weight square of cream coloured fibrous board about 5mm thick. A plaster (fireclay?) kiln shelf on the other hand is about 1/2 and inch thick, just fits in the kiln, and is hard and very heavy. As far as I know, you would use the ceramic fibre blocks for firing silverclay/PMC with a blow torch primarily, but they can also be used in a kiln for all sorts of stuff, not sure you need them really at the mo though if you've got a flat shelf?
I thought that I'd need to put the beads onto the shelf – resting on the floor and then start the process? (I know that you can't put bead etc directly on the floor) Technically you can just rest the beads on a shelf on the floor of your kiln if you want to, I tend to use the wire mesh mandrel kebab set up though. Simply because at 520C beads are in the zone where the glass can slump, or become sticky (although I've never had any do this when using this schedule). Everyone uses a different method, some people place their beads on an ceramic bathroom tile, a terracotta garden type dish with or without vermiculite, there are loads of ways of doing it.
Venting – do I just need to leave the ceramic bung off – in the manual it says to remove it – but when the venting is complete – to put it back in to conserve energy for the rest of the firing! – when is that? (Helen's post earlier says to remove it completely) Nope - you don't need to vent (open the door or remove the bung) at any point when annealing or fusing in an SC2. The only time I'd recommend you leave the bung out is when you do the first dry run, incase there is any smoke or fumes that would be better off escaping. The rest of the time, the bung stays in the 'ole. ;D
I'm just wondering if there are different ways of doing things Yep - lots of them
Going from the schedule that Helen kindly posted – I just want to see if I understand this (daren't even look that the controller book yet – head hurts!) Mine did to at this point - honestly once you've had a go you'll be fine.
PRO1 (or another free slot) _ I guess this is for pre-programming? There are 5 (I think?) empty slots in the controller for you to program your schedules into. If you program this schedule into slot 1 (Pr01) it will stay there, til you decide to change it. You can then enter other schedules into the other slots. There are 5 pre-programmed SPD (speed) schedules too, which simply heat up the kiln then cool it down. You probably won't use them again, just once for your dry run as stated above.
Ramp1 149C – not really sure what ramp means! It means the amount of degrees per hour by which your kiln will heat up or cool down
Temp1 520C – ok get this
Hold1 60mins – for 1 hour
Ramp2 78C - ?
Temp2 371C – ok temp
Hold2 0000mins – don't know why this is zero? Cos you don't hold at this temp, you go straight to Ramp 3
Ramp3 0000 – is this to turn it off / stop it? Yes - at this point it will beep for a few seconds to let you know it's finished the schedule.
After it stops – how long does it take to come down to room temp so that you can open it up? About 2-3 hours
After I've mastered this bit – I'll look at annealing using the bead door – but I can't figure out where the beads will rest inside the kiln yet – I'll figure out the batch process first! Some people have a metal rack - I think Mary posted a pic somewhere. Some people just rest the beads on the piece of fibre board in the bottom of the kiln.
And if you aren't completely comatose after all that....with a liberal splashing of Jack Daniels - I hope it goes ok trudi! Good Luck! ;D
HP x
Ooo gosh! Sorry Mary - just spotted your post - cheers. :) I think I just lost a couple of days whilst writing that! LOL! ;D
HP xxx
Well done Helen! Hopefully we covered the lot between us! ;D
Hehehe - thanks Mary! ;) That's if I haven't confused the poor girl more! I think I need a JD too now!
HP x
Hey - thank you so much for the info - I really have to say that there are sooo many very helpful peeps in here - and so many of us would be so lost without your help.
And it has helped me so much - when I started to read the instuction booklet it really made my head spin. And hopefully this post will help others to!
I'll be firing up at the weekend!
Trudi
I am soooo pleased Trudi asked all of this before I bought my kiln - I'm off to ring Cherry Heaven now! :D
Shirely - your turn to ask the next question!! :-*
Just another quick question about programming the kiln
is this set if you're making beads for 1 hour - so say if I'm gonna be making for 2 hours to I chnge Hold 1 to 120mins.
Also - if i progrmme it for 2 hours and finish in an hour & half can I get it to go to the next stage (or is it best to leave it?)
PRO1 (or another free slot)
Ramp1 149C –
Temp1 520C –
Hold1 60mins –
Ramp2 78C -
Temp2 371C –
Hold2 0000mins
Ramp3 0000 –
Cheers
Trudi,
That's a batch anneal, with a slow warm-up. For annealing as you go, I do
ramp 1 full (you might prefer a slower rate to avoid overshooting, maybe 500)
temp 1 500
hold 6 hours (or anything longer than you will work)
ramp 2 100
temp 510 (I anneal cooler than 520, use 520 if you prefer)
hold 30 mins
ramp 3 100
temp 3 370
hold 000
So it hots up quickly, and holds a long time before another half hour hold, and the slow cool. That way I can work as long as I like. When I finish I press "higher" twice, and it skips on to the next step, the half hour hold. That way the beads I have just finished get a hold too, rather than skipping straight to the cool phase.
But you're asking them so well, Trudi! :D And you've got a pic out of Vicki now too! ;D
Ha Shirley - no excuse there!
Mary that's great - so if I finish before the 6 hours (or whatever I programme) I just press higher twice and it skips to the next step!
Great!
Cheers!
(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/shine-on2/Moving%20Pics/dalmations.gif)
I think you guys just wanted to see what was in my kiln ;D
Shirley .......
............... we've been rumbled!
;D ;D ;D ;)
Hi
Well I did my empty firing last night and nothing went bang - so taking that as a good sign. I have my programme all worked out - will probably have a go at annealing as I go first - wish me luck.
But a question for batch - if I didn't want to cut down my mandrels - can you use any wire - I have some silver coloured copper wire would that do or would it melt?
Thanks Tx
Ah, but she fell for it, Trudi :D
Have you been using your kiln yet Shirley?
lol only got it on Thursday, and was at work yesterday, so it's still packaged up. Got to rearrange things in the garage to make proper space for it. At least it's the end of term so I've got a couple of weeks to play. :D
Quote from: Mary on March 29, 2007, 01:22:55 PM
Trudi,
That's a batch anneal, with a slow warm-up. For annealing as you go, I do
ramp 1 full (you might prefer a slower rate to avoid overshooting, maybe 500)
temp 1 500
hold 6 hours (or anything longer than you will work)
ramp 2 100
temp 510 (I anneal cooler than 520, use 520 if you prefer)
hold 30 mins
ramp 3 100
temp 3 370
hold 000
So it hots up quickly, and holds a long time before another half hour hold, and the slow cool. That way I can work as long as I like. When I finish I press "higher" twice, and it skips on to the next step, the half hour hold. That way the beads I have just finished get a hold too, rather than skipping straight to the cool phase.
Well I managed to get the annealing as you go programmed into PrO1 just fine - but when I wanted to skip to RAMP2 got a bit confused as your instructions said press up arrow twice - but the instruction manual said up arrow (SStP appears) - press start current segment appears - press start again
But I manged to to do a mixture of both and it started to go though the programme stage again ;D ;D christ I was ging mad - but I somehow managed to sort it and get it onto the second ramp - phew - I was getting quite annoyed as I wasn't really happy with the beads - but I guess you live * learn!!
I've tried to make some posts for the batch annealing method - I got from fibre blocks from cherry heaven and hav cut them down to size with a couple of grooves to hold madrles - they look a bit rough - will they be ok rock & roll or do I need to empty fire these too before using?
Cheers
T
Trudi, do you have an Orton Sentry Express 3.0? Did you get a separate sheet with bead annealing instructions? My instructions told me to press "up" arrow twice. Pressing "start" switches it off! You can get back to where you were by cycling round to "On" again, as you found.
Your blocks might stink first firing, might be safer not to risk contaminating beads. You could run one of the pre-programmed quick fire sections, then switch off, it doesn't need the slow cool.
Not sure which programmer it is from memory - I think it was just my fault for panking!! But I got there in the end and the temp didn't change more than a degree or 2. I've just been out to check and it has finished the run so just need to leave them to cool to room temp.
Even though I got in a bit of a panic - I really don't feel so wary of it now (she says till the next time!!
I'll give the posts a fire - I take it I should vent it when I do that!! I did look in Focus to see if I could see any of the wire mesh to make my own holder but they didn't have any!! Never mind!
Thanks again Mary for your input - really appreciated by Shirley & I!! ;D
Seconded!
Well, I've test run my kiln, have made a wire cradle and have my bead kebabs ready to go. Just remembered I hadn't written down the firing schedule so have now got that and am about to fire up! Wish me luck :D
Good luck!
hello,
I'm new to the forum just starting out in beads,can i ask Mary to go over the schedule for beads you put into the bead door as you go,i have no kiln at the moment the one you mentioned SC2 seems OK so i will most prob get this,by the way were can i purchase this kiln,its the 100 deg at stage 2 what does this do and also 100 at stage 3,would this kiln be suitable for boro annealing,no sure of the max temp,thanks for any help ck
Chris, the 100 ramp is degrees per hour of temperature change. I do some large beads and vessels, so I take it slow, if you are doing smaller round beads you could go much faster. If they are about 10-15mm you could get away with as much as 200.
THe SC2 will go plenty hot enough for boro. If you are seeing the scarily big temps quoted on American forums, remember they are using Fahrenheit not C. I got mine at paragonkilns.co.uk they have details of all the max temps for their kilns. Tuffnellglass.com sells them, and Petra at silverclay too.
Hi Mary
If I'm just making the smaller beads - can I change my settings - if so which ones please
Batch
PRO1
Ramp1 149C
Temp1 520C
Hold1 60mins
Ramp2 78C
Temp2 371C
Hold2 0000mins
Ramp3 0000
AS you go
ramp 1 full (you might prefer a slower rate to avoid overshooting, maybe 500) - what is full?
temp 1 500
hold 6 hours (or anything longer than you will work)
ramp 2 100
temp 510
hold 30 mins
ramp 3 100
temp 3 370
hold 000
Thanks
Trudi
lol Trudi, you're just impatient to see what comes out of the kiln! :D (Aren't we all ;D)
Trudi Full is 999, or as high as it will go. Just click down once. I got that out my manual, have you tried re-reading your manual against these settings? It might make it clearer.
Jim Kervin quotes 2.37 degrees per minute for cooling 14mm beads, that's 142 degrees per hour, 200 for 10mm beads, but it goes down to 100 for 16mm beads. The kiln manual quotes 220 but I think that's awful fast. 100 is a fairly safe setting for average beads. If you do want to speed yours up, it's the ramp 2 on batch, ramp 3 on garage anneal.
Of course I'm impatient Shirley!!!
Mary - I'll take the instructions out again - they scared me last time!! But my beads tend to be 14mm or less so I should be able to change the settings slightly!!
Thanks!
Trudi
The manual should make more sense now you've tried it, less like gobbledeygook!
Ha ha - you sure about that!! But I'll give it a go tomorrow when I'm less tired!! It scared the living daylights out of me last tiem I looked at it!
I just wanted to say thank goodness for this thread. I have had my SC2 sitting in my shed since June & have been terrified at the thought of switching it on. I followed Helen's instructions & it worked perfectly....although only a test run to clear the fumes I now feel confident to batch anneal :)
Thanks Helen & all of the helpful peeps on FHF.....this forum rocks!!!!
It's a pleasure Maria, and thanks to everyone who helped from me too. ;D
Happy annealing - hope it goes ok - and you know where we all are if you need owt. ;D
HP x
Quote from: mariag on September 11, 2007, 03:38:41 PM
Thanks Helen & all of the helpful peeps on FHF.....this forum rocks!!!!
I'd like to second this :) I did my first batch anneal on Friday - and it was a success :)
Don't know where I'd have been if it wasn't for all the help from this thread and others - many, many thanks and hugs to all of ya :-*
Cheers,
Janie
I did my first batch anneal a couple of days ago, I am now on my 4th!
I would not have found it so easy or been as confident if it had not been for you lovelies on here.
Thank you so much you are a truly great lot.
;D ;D ;D
Sorry for being really thick but what do you do if you don't have a kiln and are not likely to be able to afford one in the very near future.
You ask if someone will anneal your beads for you ;) :D
So you don't have to anneal them as soon as you've made them then, how long can you leave them for until they're done, as I do have a friend with a kiln.
Basically, any time as long as they're not cracked! I have some of my first un-annealed beads 2 years later. But they might develop cracks even weeks after you made them. There is a thread on here with offers to anneal by post, maybe take a look there?
I have an efco 110 kiln which has no controller how long do I leave beads in to anneal properly?
You need a controller, as annealing is a temperature-controlled process. It is important to hold the temperature in the right range for the glass you are using, and equally important to control the cooling rate appropriately, and for that you need a programmable controller. If your kiln does not have one, you can convert it by plugging it into a separate controller such as the KilnCare KCR1 (http://off-mandrel.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=80_85&products_id=675).
For Moretti ( and most 104 glass), an accepted annealing range is 516 - 520C. Hold at this temp for about 30mins (this will anneal anything up to quite large beads), and then cool slowly (50C/hour) to around 450C (just below the strain point), after which the kiln can cool at its natural rate as long as you don't peek, and artificially speed up cooling, which could still cause beads to crack.
I've posted this in a bit of a hurry, but if you want more details on annealing and schedules, pm me or drop me an email from the website.
Sean
Sorry I am going to resurrect this thread as my kiln arrived today and I am scared to switch it on. I have loads of beads to anneal but the numbers are confusing. Any chance of simpler terms for a dunce like me please. :-\
I have the paragon Sc2 with bead door.
check the wiki http://www.frit-happens.co.uk/wiki/Annealing
thanks I have read it and still confused :-\. I will have to go and experiment with what was on the first page thank you.
Enjoy - there is also a lot of info like this on the Wiki (link on the main page) as it's information that tends to get buried on teh forum, so it's easier to find it there!
Hello, This is my first post!!
I have been a member for a while and i have made several lots of beads. I have been bought a mini kiln for my birthday which says its suitable for all sorts of enamel, PMC and glass work. It heats to 900c but has a maximum heating time at that temp of 90 minutes, you then have to switch it off and allow it to cool.
So my question is , is it suitable for annealing beads which is what I would like to be able to do with it.
It does have a temp controller knob. But I am not sure if 90 minutes is too fast too slow or what having read the instructions on here. The blurb says it takes 40 minutes to get to 850c .
Sorry confused of Welwyn Garden City!!!!
PS I have read all of the forum about annealing I am still not sure.
Does it have a maximum heating time at 500-520C? That's the temperature you need for annealing. You also need very fine control over the cool down rate - you can't just switch it off. Does it have a digital controller with stages, or do you have to set every temperature yourself? You *can* anneal in a kiln that needs babysitting, but that means you have to sit next to it for hours on end adjusting it.
You'd probably get better advice if you told us what model it is.
You definately need to control the temperature down to 371°C
Thank you for the reply, I am not sure if it will work, the shame is that it was bought for me by very well meaning friends and I may well have been better saving their money for a better kiln. (I don't want to sound ungrateful!!)
There is one like it on ebay
http://www.technicalsupermarket.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=1634&category_id=386&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=4&vmcchk=1&Itemid=4
Is that the kiln you have had bought or one you think is better than yours?
Quote from: Lee - Kilncare on February 22, 2011, 11:05:18 AM
Is that the kiln you have had bought or one you think is better than yours?
Hello missed your reply!! My friends have bought me that kiln, I have done a few bits in it manly PMC I am not sure it gets hot enough to anneal glass.
Well I took the plunge and bought myself a paragon sc with bead door kiln. I am so confused, I have read the manual and I simply don't get what it means, I am going to read this thread and attempt the first trial run. Its really scary as the most prominant part of the instructions is all about how dangerous it is!!!
I have the same kiln - it took me six months and the purchase of a metal table before I felt brave enough to use it. And I feel proper daft about it now ::) If it really worries you, I bought my table at Ikea, it was only about £30 and has some handy shelving too.
I have thrown caution to the wind and I have hoovered it out and put it on a test firing, I have followed the instructions given on here earlier in the thread. Ceramic tiles are my friends, I have a load left over from my kitchen floor revamp, so I have stood the kiln on double thickness ceramic tiles!! now trying to become acustomed to the clicking it makes heating up!!
Good luck, you'll soon ignore the clicks
Well that has gone off with no problems. I picked spd3 as suggested earlier in the thread and the temp on there says single speed 3/ 1000f/555c rate per hour in the booklett. So I was expecting it to go to 555c and then stop heating. It eventually reached the completed beeping at 600c.
So is that something I should be aware of??
My SC2 overshoots if I use 'full' in the programme so I just come down a few degrees instead and it works fine. Someone else mentioned this on the forum as a workaround and it seems to work. Mine sits on a slate tile and aheat resistant sheet I had when I did a lot of soldering, that seems to keep the heat off the worktop underneath. I fire overnight so the clicking doesn't bother me, but might scare off a few hedgehogs at the end of the garden I suppose.
Thanks to everyone that contributed to this thread. It's been very useful for me this weekend.
SC2 arrived on Thursday and I empty fired it Friday and did my batch annealing of beads already made last week and both pairs (my first ever) at Flame Off, 9 April.
Happy to say that all went well with no casualties.
I did my first 'hot bead' firing tonight through the bead door, and the first bead in must have been quite heavy. I did wait utill it had lost its glow, but when I took all the beads out, this one must still have been too hot. At first I thought it has cracked and broken, but on closer inspection, it was flat, so more cooling time for big beads before they go in. I made quite a few spacers to go with 2 sets I have already made, and apart from the flattened one, 2 other larger beads for the other set. These were both ok, but, c'est la vie!
Will have to wait now till my batch of orange effetre arrives to complete one of the sets, and must also get on to Warm glass, as the small square of fibre board they sent with my kiln was broken when I removed it from the cardboard 'sandwich'.
I patched the board together today for my firing, but as a bead shelf came with it, can I use that while I'm waiting to contact Warm Glass, or in fact can i use it anyway?
I will put up some pics of my first beads fully annealed tomorrow, but meanwhile, here is my completed Loungio
(http://i755.photobucket.com/albums/xx196/a_perfectly_pretty_poppy/My%20Lampworking%20History/CompleteLoungio.jpg)
I have half a rod rest inside my kiln that I use to rest the mandrels on for new beads. And after they've been in there a while and have firmed up, I move them along and stack them!
Thanks for all the help, I have got up early this morning and set off my kiln on a batch annealing run, It took me a few times to get it set up because once I lost where I was and while I was trying to figure that out it bounced me back to the beginnng!! But its clicking away now.
Thank goodness I bought a kiln that everyone seems to have!!!
Quote from: Trudi on May 01, 2011, 07:26:19 AM
I have half a rod rest inside my kiln that I use to rest the mandrels on for new beads. And after they've been in there a while and have firmed up, I move them along and stack them!
Thanks, Trudi. It makes sense to keep them off a surface at first, I guess
Helen
Can you tell me where you got the information from or how you came up with the schedule, its nothing like the manual?
Do you or any one else reading know where I can find the facts, what is the science behind the annealing process?
Mart
Quote from: Helen P on January 21, 2007, 01:46:39 PM
Hi guys,
This is the the schedule I use for batch annealing my beads in my SC2 kiln.? I cool my beads in vermiculite straight from the flame, then take them off the mandrels when cold (leaving the bead release on), and make bead kebabs on old mandrels cut down to fit in my kiln.? Make sure the beads aren't touching, just in case the glass gets tacky and sticks together whilst annealing.? I place a piece of fibre board on the floor of my kiln to protect it from any mishaps, then I either support the kebabs on kiln shelf posts or use a steel wire mesh cradle to hold the mandrels.? I got the steel mesh from B+Q, and cut and bent it to fit inside my kiln.? There are many other ways of doing this, these are just the ways I've tried.
Anyway, here's the schedule:
PRO1 (or another free slot)
Ramp1 149C
Temp1 520C
Hold1 60mins
Ramp2 50C
Temp2 371C
Hold2 0000mins
Ramp3 0000
It's basically the schedule Lorna (Pixiewillow - thanks again Lorna :)) posted on GH a while ago, with a longer hold at 520C that will anneal beads up to about an inch in size.? If you are wanting to batch anneal larger beads, you will want to add more time to this hold segment to allow the glass stresses to be fully evened out before cooling.
Here are the kebab images - 1. kiln shelf post set up:
(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s250/BeadyBugs/FH%20images/KebabstandL.jpg)
2. Wire mesh cradle set up:
(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s250/BeadyBugs/FH%20images/MeshmandrelstandL.jpg)
If anyone has any other suggestions or schedules, please feel free to add them.
Cheers! ;D? HP x
Try the Wiki first.....http://www.frit-happens.co.uk/wiki/Annealing
Then you might want to do a search on the general forum using "annealing" as a possible search word.
Not trying to give you short shrift but a search will reveal LOTS of information which has already been written about annealing so there's little point in writing it all again.
The Paragon kiln is a general kiln - it wasn't made with annealing beads in mind, particularly, so why should the manual (which I've never seen) be any more accurate than a forum dedicated to bead making?
In a nutshell annealing is the process which eradicates mechanical stress within your glass which is caused by the glass cooling too quickly. Glass is a good thermal insulator so a hot bead tends to cool too quickly on the outside while the inside is still too hot. The outside contracts around the hotter expanded inside and mechanical stress is introduced. You can see this stress in transparent glass with polarising filters. It's basically where the molecules of glass have bunched up more resulting in a slightly higher refractive index to the material. This shows up as dark lines on a polariser. This is usually where the glass fractures. It is a weak point in the glass.
Annealing takes the glass up to a temperature where molecular movement starts and if you bathe glass at this temperature for sufficient time it gives the molecules enough opportunity to basically go to an equilibrium - i.e. there is no stress. It is then CRITICAL that you cool the glass in such a way that the outside and the inside cool at the same rate. For normal beads this usually means a drop in temperature at a rate of 60C/hour or thereabouts. For big lumps of glass this rate is slower because you have to give the glass time for the heat to perculate through. Therefore - some big glass pieces like paperweights or cast pieces need to be annealed for DAYS not hours, like beads.
For Effetre a reasonable anneal temperature is 520C though this is different for different types of glass. Lauscha, for example needs a higher temperature. There is a point where molecular movement is slow enough not to make a difference to the stress. This is called the strain point and for Effetre this is around 549C. Under this temperature, you've basically "locked" any stress in. So you need to go above the strain point to successfully anneal.. The anneal temperature is much lower than the temperature needed to actually melt the glass so annealing should never slump the glass, merely change its molecular structure, so to speak.
That's a little simplistic - but for our purposes it's probably good enough. So, there is no specific annealing schedule - it's really dependent on the glass you use, the size and shape of the object you want to anneal and whether you batch anneal a cold piece of glass or hot anneal an already hot piece.
Bit like how long is a piece of string.
And "annealing bubbles" do NOT anneal glass - they merely slow down the rate of cooling. They're handy for objects which are to be annealed later but the temperature drop in annealing bubbles is usually too quick and stress is almost certainly introduced into all but very small and very thin pieces, thus necessitating annealing (batch annealing) at a later date. It is preferable to put your hot bead into a hot kiln and hold it there until you begin the cooling process. You cannot over anneal a bead but you can certainly under anneal a bead.
Hope this helps. Going to bed. ;)
Quote from: Redhotsal on November 06, 2011, 11:24:09 PM
For big lumps of glass this rate is slower because you have to give the glass time for the heat to perculate through. Therefore - some big glass pieces like paperweights or cast pieces need to be annealed for DAYS not hours, like beads.
If you go to the observatory at Herstmonceaux, East (?) Sussex they have on display a lens from a massive telescope, a bit cracked and battered now, but they cooled it over a period of 9 MONTHS! :o
Thanks for asking the question as I was totally stumped with my new kiln too. Had to get a mathematician to help and your advice was just sitting there. Great!
Ali :)
What a helpful thread! So glad this is here. Thank you.
Hi Shirley
Thanks for the link but I really want to try and find the manufactures spec rather than someone else's interpretation of it.
I'm sure the details are sound but you never know what allowances have already been added etc. If it had been extended when that person got it and they added extra 'safety time' well you could see how things get corrupted.
Bullseye glass is well technically documented but this Effetre is a b it elusive.
By the way it's for a kiln I've built for myself.
But again thank you for taking the time to get the link.
Kind Regards ... Andy
Paragon, who produce the SC2 have the following schedule, http://www.paragonweb.com/files/manuals/IM227_Annealing_Beads_v2.pdf but each kiln behaves slightly differently so the schedule needs to be modified to suit how the kiln behaves and also the size of the items being annealed. If the kiln runs hot for example, you will need to lower the top temperature in the schedule. Anathema to someone used to precise measurements but there is no one schedule for annealing beads that fits all kilns.
I don't remember seeing anything from Effetre about annealing. Certainly not on paper. The glass is pretty well-behaved and compatible and the schedule given here should be fine. I guess the real point is that kilns vary enormously, even within themselves, and this necessitates working within a range of acceptable values rather than with precision.
Some types of glass can be more temperamental. Silver glass and some of the CIM range, for example. There are threads on here about experimenting with different temperatures and holding times to get the best out of the glass.
Something that might appeal to you. I remember Sally Carver (Redhotsal) using UV filters to inspect the beads to check that they were properly annealed. Could be one to look into.
Thanks' Pat Thanks Shirley.
I just wanted to get a better handle on issue, but it looks like they suggest ramping down from a three hour 'hold' at 537°C at a rate of 222°C per hour down to 371°C
And Shirley, do you mean 'UV' filters or do you think that might have been 'polarizing' filters?
I've got some polarizing filters here that I use but I'm always interested in, and distracted by, anything new or different.
... Andy
Quote from: Pat from Canvey on January 12, 2014, 09:34:02 AM
Paragon, who produce the SC2 have the following schedule, http://www.paragonweb.com/files/manuals/IM227_Annealing_Beads_v2.pdf but each kiln behaves slightly differently so the schedule needs to be modified to suit how the kiln behaves and also the size of the items being annealed. If the kiln runs hot for example, you will need to lower the top temperature in the schedule. Anathema to someone used to precise measurements but there is no one schedule for annealing beads that fits all kilns.
I used that schedule when I first got my SC2 earlier this year, but found that I kept getting 'kiss marks' on the beads, even when I played around with the top temp. I found the best one for me was the garaging schedule from the "Moretti bead annealing schedule as-you-go - SC2 with bead door" thread.
My kiln overshoots on full ramp so I ramp at 700 as in the edit to the thread, which has been so useful to me as a resource.
I don't know what I'd do without Frit Happens, (well I do but hitting one's kiln with a large hammer may make you feel better at the time, but leads to dismay later).
Jane
Quote from: Andy Davies on January 12, 2014, 12:02:13 PM
Thanks' Pat Thanks Shirley.
I just wanted to get a better handle on issue, but it looks like they suggest ramping down from a three hour 'hold' at 537°C at a rate of 222°C per hour down to 371°C
And Shirley, do you mean 'UV' filters or do you think that might have been 'polarizing' filters?
I've got some polarizing filters here that I use but I'm always interested in, and distracted by, anything new or different.
... Andy
Sorry, yes, polarising. Not something I'm into myself.
I also use the SC2, but find that a top temperature of 482 is better - at 537 the beads are too soft. Never had any problems with the resulting beads when annealed on our amended programme. We let the kiln cool naturally from 371, and don't open the door until the temp is less than 100. Presumably the calibration of the kiln is 'out'.
We have similar problems with another kiln which is used for fusing Bullseye glass. We run a cooler program than BE recommend for it, and get a better finish (less devit, better edges) as a result.
I also have an SC2 and have to use temps of 20c less to stop my beads going tacky!
Quote from: Andy Davies on January 12, 2014, 12:02:13 PM
I just wanted to get a better handle on issue, but it looks like they suggest ramping down from a three hour 'hold' at 537°C at a rate of 222°C per hour down to 371°C
... Andy
That sounds like a very fast ramp down to me Andy. I've always believed - and no matter how much I rack my poor old brain I can't remember where the figure comes from - that you need to ramp down at about 1 c per hour till you've passed the strain point. Once you've passed that you can cool more quickly but still need to be wary of thermal stress. From a quick search it's also the conventional wisdom - doesn't mean it's right of course!
A three hour hold at the annealing point is probably longer than you need but, as you can't over anneal glass, won't cause any stress in the bead. Some colours don't like a long anneal especially some of the silver glasses (although some like pandora need a long hold) and I think some runs of rubino have issues too.
I think you're going to have run some beads through your kiln a few times and work out your schedule from there. Both of my kilns run hot but I have got to know them well and cope with their individuality. I've just started casting and have been able to apply adjustments to the standard schedules before the first run with some success but have still adjusted according to results.
Bullseye have some downloadable kiln sheets which enable you to track what you're doing on each run and what your results are. They are designed for fusing but will help with annealing too. And they'll help with colour combos that do/ don't work or which come out of the kiln looking entirely different to how they go in.
Bullseye are far better about making technical info available than the Italian manufacturers. It's a pain but I've always assumed that this is partly cultural and partly because Bullseye's business is art glass whereas the Italians make all sorts of glass for lighting etc.
Apologies for my verbosity
Sarah
xxx
Thanks Sarah, that's why I questioned it, how would you interpret what's said in the link?
http://www.paragonweb.com/files/manuals/IM227_Annealing_Beads_v2.pdf
Regards ... Andy
Andy, that extract from the manual is not a batch annealing schedule, it's a garaging programme where you make a bead and then put it in the kiln immediately rather than popping it into vermiculite and annealing later. That explains where the 3 hour hold comes from, but in this case it is 3 hours of working time before the kiln is programmed to move on to the next segment. If you wanted a different amount of working time you could increase or decrease the hold time. On my kiln I have an 8 hour hold to allow me two work sessions per day if I need it. It isn't saying that on a batch anneal you would hold the beads at the annealing temperature for 3 hours.
On my garaging programme I hold at 510C, then up it to 520C for an hour to anneal, and then it ramps down to 371C, and then turns off. 537C seems rather high. Higher than I would think most people anneal at.
Thanks Shirley
At what rate do you ramp down at to the 371°C point?
Kind Regards ... Andy
Off the top of my head I can't remember. Couple of years since I programmed the kiln. Probably the 50C in the programme at the beginning of this thread. It's not too quick. Works fine.
Hi Andy
Shirley's right but I wouldn't use this program for a garaging schedule either. Mine is set to about 25c below the annealing point while I'm working. When I'm done for the day I take them up to annealing point for 90 minutes then down to strain point at 60c/hour.
I don't hold them at the annealing point while I'm working as this can affect some colours. And I make some large (2") beads which need a little longer.
The link you sent also doesn't say what CoE glass it is. I wouldn't use a program without knowing what it's designed for.
Sarah
xxx
Thanks Sarah, this is the problem all along, the information is too sketchy, Pat kindly gave me the link but unfortunately it doesn't really help.
I'm specifically looking for the manufactures guidance on Effetre CoE100 annealing.
But I'd also like to know the fusing temperature, the satin point the annealing temperature etc I'd like everything helpful that Bullseye publish.
Wheatear or not I'll push the limits is another thing but at least I'd like to know what the notional limits should be.
It's probably from having too many years in 'Process engineering' but if you make the artwork it'd be a shame to wreck it because you don't know how to control the process.
I guess there's a lot of just playing safe and hoping for the best. (Victor Meldrew moment)
All the best . . . Andy
You may need to contact Effetre http://www.effetremurano.com (http://www.effetremurano.com) direct and ask them?
Good luck with that! ;D
But it's 104 COE not 100 if you want to be precise!
It's not a matter of us playing safe and hoping for the best; it's years of practical experience and a vast collective knowledge that is shared through this forum.
Kazx
You could have a look at http://www.isgb.org/forum/showthread.php?2904-Moretti-glass-strain-point-temperature, though it appears that even when Effetre *has* provided tech specs, it hasn't always been correct...
Thanks Kaz you're right it's the Coe104 I want, the CoE100 is the old glass I've being playing with, and hey, I'm not knocking it at all.
I always reckon if you want to know how to do something you need to find someone who 'knows how' but I'm getting conflicting answers and I'm frustrated that the Effetre information seems to be a secrete.
If I can get definitive information from the manufactures I'll share it here.
All the very best and please accept that no offence is intended and I hope none was taken.
Kind regards ... Andy
Quote from: garishglobes on January 13, 2014, 10:01:38 AM
You may need to contact Effetre http://www.effetremurano.com (http://www.effetremurano.com) direct and ask them?
Thanks garishglobes Thanks for the link I'll contact them now and see what happens.
... Andy
Page 2 of the effetre catalogue gives the annealing temp as 470C, coe as 104 +/- 1.5
I use 480 - 510C, depending on what other glass I have with it
I use 420C as the strain point, which works just fine in the work that I do.
HTH,
Sean
Thanks all
I've been to the website http://www.effetremurano.com/ that garishglobes gave me but I can't post an enquiry as I get an error message.
I've found another address for them . . . F3ind2@effetre.com but this turns out to be no longer in use.
This is the latest email address I have for them. . .
comm.murano@effetremurano.com
I've requested some technical information from them regarding annealing schedules etc. as I want to get there suggested ramp rates.
By the way the top website is interesting to look at; well it was for me, to see the range of millefiori they have. (I don't have their catalogue)
. . . Andy
I expect you realise that their ramp rates might not suit your kiln and will need to be adjusted. Before I bought my bead kiln, I used my old ceramic Fulham Pottery kiln. With that I can only dial a top temperature, a soak and a rate from 1-4 and full. After an hour soaking at 520deg C (or what the digital display was telling me was 520 deg C), I turned off the kiln and let it cool naturally, (about 12 hours) Beads were fine and still whole after about 8 years. I do realise the need for precision in some areas of life, (daughter is an aeronautical engineer and always demands precise measurements for any sculptural pieces I make) but glass is not precise.
I don't know about information being conflicting. I think it's rather that there are so many variables involved that things change a lot and people's experiences vary too.
As for Effetre keeping things secret, maybe, but more likely they are just being Italian! :D
Effetre catalogue link (rod) (http://www.effetremurano.com/bacchette.pdf)
Sean
Thanks Pat
I'm not moaning but oh boy I feel like I need to justify myself. . .
What I'm setting out to do is design a table top annealing kiln that will in fact perform in the similar fashion as your old ceramics kiln. Switch it off and walk away.
In order to design the kiln for a satisfactory 'uncontrolled ramp down' I need to know what the target ramp rate, from the stress-relief point down to the strain point, is for the glass in question and the type/size of beads I want to make. That's why I'm looking for the guidelines from the manufacture as a starting point.
It's only when I know the specifics that I can start the design and of course I can build in whatever safety margin I wish. The aim is to keep the physical size and cost to a minimum but importantly to remove the need for a programmed temperature controller.
As you know a single point temperature controller is cheap when compared with a munity point programmable controller and very simple to set.
Another bonus would be that the kiln could be unplugged and left to cool down with total confidence and in the same way, in the event of a power cut, the kiln simply assumes a safe ramp down. We get power cuts were I live.
I can understand some folk's resistance to me wanting to put a technical slant on the topic as it is after all Art not a science but there is a place I believe where a bit of science can help the artist. (having said that the topic title is batch annealing) I've designed several industrial glass heating systems including one for fusing two 10" diameter borosilicate thick-walled tubes together for the scientific glassware industry and several 100 KW units for producing industrial ceramics fired at over 3,000°C where the problems are horrendous. I've also made glass moulding equipment for making industrial valves (they're like the old radio valves but much bigger.) I haven't done much with annealing glass thought.
So I kind of have a bit of background with glass which I'll write about some day. What I don't have any experience with is hand lamp work. The major part of my work has been in heating and melting metals but where I have been involved with glass it's been in high volume production with precise production rates where you hardly ever get to see the glass it moves so fast.
If I do design such a kiln then my plan would be to freely publish the plans for anyone who wanted to build one. I'd design it with easily obtainable materials and for construction without special tools.
Anyway I just thought that might clear up why I want to have a specific answer to what should be a straightforward question.
By the way I wonder where your daughter works, I've made equipment for Boeing, British Aerospace, Rolls Royce Aviation etc so you never know, it's a small world.
Kind Regards . . . Andy
Andy,
I don't think there is a resistance to a technical slant - glass is a very technical material.
If you only want to anneal beads, design for a hold temp of 500C. That will be fine for garaging soft glass, be it effetre, vetrofond, lauscha, bullseye, or whatever. It will also work fine as an annealing temp for batch annealing if that is your wont. If so, make sure it heats at about 250C/hr or slower to avoid thermal shock, and cools with no power at 50C/hr or slower to avoid reintroducing stress, and hold it at 500C for as long as you like - I fancy an hour, for beads, and up to small marbles (3/4"). This will leave you with perfectly adequately annealed beads - but will become increasingly inappropriate as you get into sculpture, larger marbles, or other glasses, and may cause livering in striking glasses, or overstrike in silver glasses. This is probably why very few glass artists work without a multi-step digital controller on their kiln.
Interesting project - I look forward to seeing your results!
ETA: You may already know, but the Rakow library at the Corning Museum of Glass hold pretty much everything there is to know on the subject of glass. Its free to access their resources, even to borrow books via the inter-library loan service. I was stunned.
Sean
Hi Andy
My advice would be.....
If you're looking to design a kiln then follow Sean's advice. :)
If you want to bang your head off a brick wall trying to more get info out of a company that doesn't want to provide then carry on with your search ;)
Sometimes you have to work out what's important to you but you don't need to justify that to anyone.
Sarah
Xxx
"By the way I wonder where your daughter works"
She works for Rolls Royce at Filton doing design work but does go up to Derby about once a week.
Cheers Sean, and Sarah, I'll see if anything comes back from Effetre. Fingers crossed, might have to enquire in Italian but we'll see.
Thanks Pat, OK RR Filton and Derby I did some very interesting development work for them on the RB211 but as you'd expect it's all subject to confidentiality agreements but I don't think it's giving any secrets away to say it was to do with controlled weld stress annealing of critical engine components. And yes, everything there is done with great precision.
The last job was for Derby, I can't remember the names of the guys and girls I dealt with as that was probably about 6 or so years ago, my company was Cheltenham Induction Heating Ltd (still trading)
.... Andy