Seems an odd selection. I would like a kiln that does bead annealing and fusing and maybe enamelling. Could a little beadcube do all that or should I just go large and get a Hobbyfuser? Alternatively should I plump for a SC2 as a kiln a bit bigger than the Beadcube but not the size of a Hobbyfuser? If I choose a Beadcube how many beads does it hold? I've read on here as many as 300 but I assume that is just piling them in as a batch anneal. Isn't there a risk of them all sticking together?
If I go for a Hobbyfuser I know that I will have to batch anneal rather than popping beads into the kiln straight from the flame. Does that cause problems?
I'm leaning towards a Kilncare kiln because of the great customer service and my fear that I may need a bit of hand holding to start with.
Must admit, I'd not use a hobbyfuser for beads, but I prefer to pop my beads in the kiln as I go. Less chance of breakage that way.
I use an SC2 for my beads, and can do also small scale fusing/slumping. eg 1 coaster at a time and slump a small beer bottle.
I'm looking to buy a hobbyfuser to do more fusing, but would keep my SC2 for my beads.
Do you ever make 300 beads in one sitting? If you want to be able to anneal as you go, think about how many you would normally make. And as far as I know, whether you anneal as you go or batch anneal, if you put them in the kiln when they're too hot, they might get kiss marks anyway (not a beader so can't say that with any authority)
You'd struggle to do enamelling in a Hobbyfuser - in fact in any top loader. You need to be able to pop things in and out of the kiln quickly - hard to do with a big lid at 800 centigrade. Oh, and of course different colours of enamel fire best at different temperatures. And for different lengths of time. Ideally you need to be able to peek in regularly to see how its going (I've boiled red enamel, it's not a good look).
Of course, you won't get much more than a single coaster in a Bead cube.
You have to decide what your priority is. What do you want it for *most*? Go with that.
I bought my first kiln 8 years ago, dithered, went for a Caldera, as theoretically that covers more bases - hot enough for ceramics, can have a window option, a bead door option and is four sided heating, so more even than a front opening door for fusing glass. But in the end, I decided fusing was my priority, and it wasn't for me.
The SC2 covers a lot of things, but I think the Bead cube does too, on a slightly smaller basis. And with the Bead Cube, you get the reassurance of buying from Kilncare. Aftersales service is second to none.
Just to complicate matters - I noticed this morning that Tuffnells are selling a new style of dual purpose kiln http://www.tuffnellglass.com/contents/en-uk/d33.html#p3863 Pricier, though! :)
I got a SC2 with bead door and window so that I could do the same as you: bead anneal, fuse and enamel.
I must say I have never used it to anneal as I refuse to part with my maxine. I has been absolutely fab to enamel and fuse in.
However, I am now (a year down the line) getting frustrated with the size of it to fuse in. I am now looking at a hobbyfuser 3 for fusing whilst keeping my SC2 for enameling.
Going with what Zeldazog said, decide what your priority is. For me when I bought my SC2, mine was enameling, however now my priority has changed and it is fusing because my work is becoming less and less jewellery and more home wares.
Thanks for your replies. I was leaning towards the Beadcube or SC2 when someone said to me that I should get the biggest kiln I can afford. As my original intention was to get a kiln for bead annealing I think I should focus on that. I've got a bit swayed recently by looking at all the things you can do with glass fusing. Realistically my focus initially will be on lampwork and small fused glass jewellery, both of which I should be able to do in the Beadcube or SC2. If I later decide I want to do more fusing then I have the space to get something larger (getting a shedio at the end of the garden this summer, I can't wait!). Looks like I now need to decide between a Beadcube and SC2 so at least my selection has narrowed a bit.
I've got an SC2, which I use to anneal my beads and to fuse smaller things. I can get one coaster and 4 or 5 pendants/earrings in at once (why waste space!), and you can also fuse and slump slightly larger dishes. I haven't tried enameling in it, as I have a kiln I bought back in the 70s for that, which I've used with the kids at school, so there's spilled enamel on the bottom. I'm not sure I'd like to risk getting spilled enamel in my SC2............
Nick
Quote from: Nicknack on May 26, 2015, 02:01:32 PM
I'm not sure I'd like to risk getting spilled enamel in my SC2............
Nick
I got a spare shelf for mine and it is covered in enamel and bits but it stops the inside getting messy :) and then I have a nice smooth one for fusing.
Quote from: MelanieO on May 26, 2015, 11:50:17 AM
Thanks for your replies. I was leaning towards the Beadcube or SC2 when someone said to me that I should get the biggest kiln I can afford.
That's a quote I read often, and actually, I think it should be "get the biggest kiln you can afford for the purpose you want it for". Yes, I'd totally agree, I got a Skutt Hot Start Pro, it wasn't long before I wanted bigger. That said, at the time I was fusing at home, and it was the biggest I could fit in the kitchen. Once I got my studio space, I went up to a Hobbyfuser - it didn't take long before I thought "hey, that's not big enough!"
However, whilst I think it's a good sentiment, it probably only applies if you're looking for a specific purpose.
All too often I see people who want to "have a go at fusing" go straight out and buy a Hobbyfuser without having taken a class, then spend all their time asking questions and being afraid to fire it because they might ruin a large piece of glass if they get it wrong.
You can learn lots about fusing in a small kiln, there's bound to be someone not too far willing to rent out kiln space if you want to make something larger - I'd advise a class if you do decide to go for a bit of fusing (of course I would, I teach it :D) - it might seem expensive, but you've only got to bu99er up a couple of large sheets of glass trying it on your own and you've almost spent the same amount as the class would cost (which you would have made and brought something away from anyway)
I'm looking to upgrade, my next kiln will be too big really to consider samples, so I will probably at some point have both a large fusing kiln and a Bead Cube for samples and
playing. experimenting
And actually, had the Kilncare Bead Cube been around when I did buy my first kiln, that's what I would have got, as I already knew of their reputation and it did (does) everything I wanted to try.
Not tried enamelling yet, but bought my SC2 because I knew I would want to try fusing. I always garage my beads. I got frustrated with my SC2 only fitting in one coaster at a time, made things seem laborious so looked for a small kiln for fusing and luckily was offered one by a FH'er so now have a Skutt Hot Start. Anyway, that's my 2 penneth. I looked at a Bead Cube when I started and decided it was too small and, I thought I understood, no good for fusing?
Quote from: Blue Box Studio on May 26, 2015, 04:22:06 PM
I looked at a Bead Cube when I started and decided it was too small and, I thought I understood, no good for fusing?
Goes up to 920 deg C - main issue is that with it being a muffle kiln, it may be slightly cooler at the front near the door, but I know some people also have that issue with SC2 anyway. Less of an issue if using for jewellery pieces though.
I have an SC3 which gives a bit of extra headroom so you can try sightly higher fusing / slumping
with the original solid door I got pretty even heat for 2 shelves of cabs but with the bead door it is definitely cooler in that area so not as good for fusing with the bead door, though I have obtained a piece of ceramic fibre to try bunging the hole with
Thank you for all your replies. Am I correct in understanding that a kiln with a bead door won't be much good for fusing? If I want to do some fusing am I better off getting a kiln without a bead door and doing batch annealing?
I'm going on a fused glass jewellery course next month at Creative Glass which will be helpful. I'm sure that I will want to be able to make cabs as well as annealing beads as I've enjoyed using bought dichroic glass cabs in the silver jewellery I've made.
Quote from: MelanieO on May 27, 2015, 08:45:25 AM
Thank you for all your replies. Am I correct in understanding that a kiln with a bead door won't be much good for fusing? If I want to do some fusing am I better off getting a kiln without a bead door and doing batch annealing?
I'm going on a fused glass jewellery course next month at Creative Glass which will be helpful. I'm sure that I will want to be able to make cabs as well as annealing beads as I've enjoyed using bought dichroic glass cabs in the silver jewellery I've made.
My SC2 has a bead door and a window. I have had the very odd firing where things at the front haven't melted quite enough and I just turn it around and re-fire. In my experience the door doesn't affect or prevent you from fusing :)
My SC2 has a bead door, I didn't have any fusing failures, but I did push my self back a bit. Because I didn't stuff the bead door with fibre to keep the heat in, I lost some around the edges and it burned the paint away a bit, was looking quite smart until then. I had it running double shifts before I got a bigger fusing kiln, as soon as the beads were cold enough to come out, they fusing went in, next morning fusing out beads in; I just worried I was over working it a bit.
I put the smaller things (earrings) at the front, near the bead door, and haven't really had any problems.
Nick
Looks like it will be a SC2 with a bead door. If I get to the stage like Sue of using it 24 hours a day I'll know that's the time to trade up to something bigger. All I've got to do now is wait for the shed to arrive and I'll be back with questions about ventilation :)
Quote from: MelanieO on May 27, 2015, 08:45:25 AM
Thank you for all your replies. Am I correct in understanding that a kiln with a bead door won't be much good for fusing? If I want to do some fusing am I better off getting a kiln without a bead door and doing batch annealing?
I'm going on a fused glass jewellery course next month at Creative Glass which will be helpful. I'm sure that I will want to be able to make cabs as well as annealing beads as I've enjoyed using bought dichroic glass cabs in the silver jewellery I've made.
If you're only fusing jewellery sized pieces for pendants, cufflinks, cabs, etc it wouldn't be an issue. In fact, it could work to your advantage if it was slightly cooler at the door end as you might want a slightly lower temperature firing occasionally for a different effect.
When I first did fusing as student and the following year taught it at the same course, we used a ceramics kiln with several shelves. The temperature can vary greatly from top to bottom, but we worked with that and would put tack fuse and full fuse items all in together, rather than having to do two separate firings.
I think I'm with most others on here. I initially went with an SC2 which I use to batch anneal, garage and fuse small items. It's got a bead door and window and I haven't noticed any fuse failures.
After about a year I decided (and persuaded my DW) that a bigger kiln would be useful and went for a Kilncare Hobbyfuser. It's a superb kiln, as others have said, and is actually just as efficient to run as the smaller SC2 because it is so much better insulated.
Would I get rid of one of the kilns now - no definitely not. The SC2 is perfect for beads and small fused pieces and the Hobbyfuser is superb for anything else fusing related.
Anyway that's my penny worth.
Mark
if you only batch anneal, you'll only ever be able to make smaller beads because you'll have to use either vermiculite or cooling bubbles to let your beads cool down. These latter methods are not suitable for larger beads like lentils as you'[ll lose them through cracking.
Thanks. Think I'm going to go with a SC3 on the basis that the extra internal height will give a few extra options for fusing.
From a bit of googling I discovered the Kilncare Ace. I spoke to Lee at Kilncare today to find out if they still did them and if not whether they are planning something similar. He explained that they are considering it and would have a better idea in a couple of months of whether they would fit it into their schedule. It is the same size as the SC2 but the price point would be slightly higher. I'm really hoping he does as I'd love to buy a Kilncare kiln that is a bit bigger than the Beadcube but still has a bead door and I'd be happy to pay a bit extra for the reassurance of such great customer service.
The Prometheus that Martin sells is a good price
I didn't think the Prometheus was manufactured in the UK?
I think I will end up with a bead cube unless Kilncare do reintroduce the Ace. I'm a complete technophobe and I worry about Paragon being based in the USA and not always being that helpful when it comes to customer service.
I have the SC2 and have recently bought a secondhand Bead Cube. If you are wanting to do fusing and enamelling I wouldn't go with the bead cube, it is too small and really hard to lift things in and out of. I would go with the SC2 or wait until Kilncare have theirs sorted.
I wish that Lee would come up with a SC2 size but with a door like on the bead cube but goes all the way down to the bottom.
The prometheus is built in Turkey, that doesn't mean it is good or bad, it simply means it is built in Turkey.
I should have a good idea on the possible re-emergence of The Ace (our SC2 equivalent) once I has finished with our new fusing kiln. A few weeks I think.