Frit-Happens !

Technical Forum => Studio/workspace/setup/equipment => Topic started by: richardnash666 on April 12, 2015, 02:51:29 PM



Title: Dual Fuel Newbie daft question of the day
Post by: richardnash666 on April 12, 2015, 02:51:29 PM
Bought a Bethlehem Alpha Torch and one of Martin's reconditioned Oxy Cons at flame off yesterday

Have managed to get it all plumbed together.

Martin has already told me about POOP

I have managed to get a flame lit but am having issues getting a good stable neutral flame.

I think that my propane regulator is set OK basically set quite low.

I suspect oxygen as the torch is louder than expected and close to the nozzles keep getting what looks like a reduction flame.

Have tried some instruction about getting a 6 inch (ish) propane flame and then feed in the oxy. Flame looks like it is going to settle but then little reduction flames come and go randomly around the flame.

Do I have the oxycon valve too open as have nearly it all the way open....with the idea that the torch would then control the flow. Should this be set less.

Any help would be gratefully accepted as have managed to get a little frustrated and am sure there is nothing wrong other than the balance of the setup

Cheers

R


Title: Re: Dual Fuel Newbie daft question of the day
Post by: bearyboo on April 12, 2015, 02:56:35 PM
I am sure someone more knowledgeable will be along shortly but it sounds like you have too much oxygen. The little black ball inside the oxycon which shows the pressure should be between 4 - 5.

Danielle


Title: Re: Dual Fuel Newbie daft question of the day
Post by: richardnash666 on April 12, 2015, 03:02:07 PM
Right that sounds like it. That is just above 5.

Will have a look and a slight adjustment tomorrow when have propane attached again.

Also read something about having the oxycon on with the torch valve open for 20 mins beforehand to let it settle. Am happy to do that but not sure it is needed.

Will turn the oxycon valve down to get the ball somewhere around 4 or 5.

Thanks for the speedy reply


Title: Re: Dual Fuel Newbie daft question of the day
Post by: Calico Cat on April 12, 2015, 03:05:22 PM
The propane regulator is usually about 3.5 Bar if that helps - although the Bethlehem torches work on lower pressures than Nortel or GTT.


Title: Re: Dual Fuel Newbie daft question of the day
Post by: Shirley on April 12, 2015, 03:08:15 PM
If you think everything is set ok then turn on your oxycon and let it run for a bit. 10 minutes or so at least, with the knob on the torch open to allow the oxygen through so it doesn't back up in the system. Then turn the oxygen knob on the torch, light the torch and gradually open the oxygen until the ball on the oxycon comes up to around five.

The little flames around the main flame usually settle down, but if you are still having a problem after a few minutes you might be wise to contact Martin. My first oxycon did this and never settled, and I waited far too long before I accepted there was a problem. It turned out there was a fault and Martin swapped it.


Title: Re: Dual Fuel Newbie daft question of the day
Post by: Steampunkglass on April 12, 2015, 03:13:41 PM
I'd do as Shirley suggests, the oxygen stores up a little in a tank inside, so if you leave it open for 20mins all you are doing is emptying this tank before it can fill. Better to let it run for at least 5 mins to charge it up, after that you may get a bit of air for 30sec-2mins as it pushes any air out of the torch pipes.

Also if you close the taps on the torch, then turn off the oxycon the black ball should drop to the bottom. If it doesn't hit the bottom of the indicator then you have a leak in your oxygen pipes, (the indicator is showing it's still supplying oxygen from the storage tank inside the oxycon) and you will need to check the connections again.

Hope that helps


Title: Re: Dual Fuel Newbie daft question of the day
Post by: richardnash666 on April 12, 2015, 03:45:58 PM
Sounds like I will be busy after work tomorrow.

So if I have this straight this is what I will be doing

1) Adjust oxycon valve so ball floats between 4 and 5
2) Let it run for 10 mins to stabilise
3) Close the oxy valve on torch
4) Light torch and gently feed in the oxy
5) Make many beads

If this doesn't resolve the issue I will give Tuffnells a ring to see what they advise.

But am still feeling excited about using my shiny new equipment. Fingers crossed the above will sort this out


Title: Re: Dual Fuel Newbie daft question of the day
Post by: babyshoes on April 12, 2015, 03:56:07 PM
For what it's worth, it takes my oxy a while to settle at the start of a session, and it did take a while to figure out the new equipment when I first got it - frustrating when all you want to do is play!!

I'm sure you will get it figured out before long with all the advice you've had so far, and if not, well, you've met Martin & know how friendly he is - just give him a ring. I'd offer to pop round if I thought I could be any help, but I'm rubbish at the technical side I'm afraid... :-\



Title: Re: Dual Fuel Newbie daft question of the day
Post by: Shirley on April 12, 2015, 04:08:30 PM
Sounds like I will be busy after work tomorrow.

So if I have this straight this is what I will be doing

1) Adjust oxycon valve so ball floats between 4 and 5
2) Let it run for 10 mins to stabilise
3) Close the oxy valve on torch
4) Light torch and gently feed in the oxy
5) Make many beads

If this doesn't resolve the issue I will give Tuffnells a ring to see what they advise.

But am still feeling excited about using my shiny new equipment. Fingers crossed the above will sort this out

yep, although step 1) is where you want to be at the end of step 4) :D


Title: Re: Dual Fuel Newbie daft question of the day
Post by: Trudi on April 12, 2015, 04:21:53 PM
I have an alpha ..... I do find that when I light it I need have the propane on for a minute or two before I sloawly turn on the oxygen. Maybe it's a thing with my torch but it might help!


Title: Re: Dual Fuel Newbie daft question of the day
Post by: garishglobes on April 12, 2015, 04:48:59 PM
I would always leave the oxygen knob on the torch open, at least a small bit, to avoid pressure building up in the Oxycon and blowing it - I am sure I remember reading that this was sensible....  So I wouldn't close the oxy valve on the torch completely. Unless I misread!


Title: Re: Dual Fuel Newbie daft question of the day
Post by: Shirley on April 12, 2015, 04:56:01 PM
I close mine completely for a couple of seconds while I light the flame. That is all.


Title: Re: Dual Fuel Newbie daft question of the day
Post by: flame n fuse on April 12, 2015, 06:06:45 PM
I do what Shirley does.


Title: Re: Dual Fuel Newbie daft question of the day
Post by: Jellybean on April 13, 2015, 04:41:29 AM
I leave my oxy open all the time...


Title: Re: Dual Fuel Newbie daft question of the day
Post by: fionaess on April 13, 2015, 06:22:02 AM
I three leave my oxygen open all the time


Title: Re: Dual Fuel Newbie daft question of the day
Post by: MangoBeads on April 13, 2015, 08:52:54 AM
My two pence worth .....

Always leave Oxygen valve open.

If you only have a 5 litre oxycon you need to get the best output from it that you can to get the best flame for the Alpha - IMO they run better on bigger oxycons although they will run on 5 litres.

SO if that is what you have heres a little tip from David.....

 ... cut the nozzle on your Christmas tree attachment back so that you have a bigger outlet hole therefore more oxygen can leave the concentrator and fuel your flame.... makes a huge difference everyone that we suggest it to at the workshop has done it and been amazed at the results.

PS The Alpha is the best torch in the world !


Title: Re: Dual Fuel Newbie daft question of the day
Post by: Calico Cat on April 13, 2015, 02:03:43 PM
Quote from: MangoBeads link=topic=46061.msg693975#msg693975

PS The Alpha is the best torch in the world !

Except for the Bravo 😉


Title: Re: Dual Fuel Newbie daft question of the day
Post by: richardnash666 on April 13, 2015, 02:43:25 PM
Yay and success. Flame now a happy flame and me a happy me...now can no longer blame the tools for the dodgy beads that happen.

Thank you all for your advice and guidance.

And here is my Alpha in all its glory including arm rest

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7621/17137157525_8cca0cf2c3_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/s7mpTc)DSC_0085 (https://flic.kr/p/s7mpTc) by Richard Nash (https://www.flickr.com/people/8765253@N04/), on Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7631/16950934919_70f5ce3498_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/rPTYoB)DSC_0084 (https://flic.kr/p/rPTYoB) by Richard Nash (https://www.flickr.com/people/8765253@N04/), on Flickr

And also should mention I removed the Fireblanket and metal try I have under the flame for the photo.

I am now a very happy person ;D


Title: Re: Dual Fuel Newbie daft question of the day
Post by: Nicknack on April 13, 2015, 02:45:36 PM
So you should be, with a torch like that!  There'll be no holding you now. :D  Looking forward to seeing some of your beads.

Nick


Title: Re: Dual Fuel Newbie daft question of the day
Post by: richardnash666 on April 13, 2015, 03:03:33 PM
Now it is working as it should with a few minor tweaks as suggested. Have already made some pleasing beads using techniques learnt on Saturday (Gravity Waves mostly) but am now enjoying lampwork even more. Couldnt wait to get home from work today and play.


Title: Re: Dual Fuel Newbie daft question of the day
Post by: cbeadies on April 13, 2015, 04:20:38 PM

SO if that is what you have heres a little tip from David.....

 ... cut the nozzle on your Christmas tree attachment back so that you have a bigger outlet hole therefore more oxygen can leave the concentrator and fuel your flame.... makes a huge difference everyone that we suggest it to at the workshop has done it and been amazed at the results.


Hi-jacking this thread for a moment, sorry...just wanted to ask if people do this for working with the Minor torch too or just for the more powerful ones? Thanks!  :)


Title: Re: Dual Fuel Newbie daft question of the day
Post by: MangoBeads on April 13, 2015, 05:18:01 PM
We do it with all our torches in the workshop and have done for years ;) minors, crickets , alphas ......


Title: Re: Dual Fuel Newbie daft question of the day
Post by: fionaess on April 13, 2015, 05:37:33 PM
Can I do this with a new 10 litre from Martin?


Title: Re: Dual Fuel Newbie daft question of the day
Post by: MangoBeads on April 13, 2015, 05:49:55 PM
The 10'litre from Martin doesn't have a Christmas Tree on it the pipe fits straight onto a metal fitting so the maximum flow is coming out of the machine anyway :)


Title: Re: Dual Fuel Newbie daft question of the day
Post by: fionaess on April 13, 2015, 07:35:19 PM
well thats good to know manda.. so I wont be taking my hacksaw to it then  ;D ;D