Having finally acquired a house with a craft room I'm hoping to run a bobcat on natural gas. I've finally found a plumber willing to do anything slightly unusual who will put a gas line to the room I want.. but... he can't work out how to connect to the torch. My bobcat, and minors, and any other small torch i can find pictures of- just have a fitting that a flexi hose pushes onto. Unfortunately doing this doesn't seem to be allowed in the English Building Regs, as interpreted by my plumber. Can anyone tell me how they connect their torch to the copper gas line?
I have quarter-turn isolators on the line, and a firecheck/flash-back arrestor for natural gas.. just can't work out the last tiny detail of how to attach to the torch!
Thanks for your help!
Charli
I don't know anyone who runs their torch from a gas line in this country. There might well be people but I think you are more likely to get a response if you ask on Lampwork Etc. I believe it's a more common practice there.
I have spoken with GTT and some other folks in the US- but their gas regulations are very different- its perfectly fine in most of the US to use a push-on flexi hose and a hose clip, seems you can't do that in the UK though (unless I can convince the plumber otherwise?)
I know Carole McAllister uses natural gas. She lives in Barnstaple. I'll PM you her email address.
Nick
I wonder if it would be similar to how laboratories use gas for bunsun burners? ??? ??? ??? I do remember at school just having taps stuck up out of the bench you could push a hose onto, but that was quite a number of years ago now ::) ::) ::) and regulations might have changed
There are different regulations for commercial buildings, and schools- so you can use push-on hoses there, but not in houses :( apparently.
It's so annoying as the gas line is right there, handily by the torch... i just can't join them together! At least not in a way that both building regs will sign off!
We used to run our torches on natural gas in our Tavistock shop. There was no difference at the torch end.
The only difference was the type of flashback arrestor used where the pipe was attached to the mains, I think. We had shut off valves for each torch, and have them still, now we are on propane in Okehampton.
I can try to find out a bit more about the flashback arrestor if you haven't already solved your problem. Our plumber managed to find the right thing, albeit VERY reluctantly.
So the torch end looks like:
(http://charli.ellyll.net/photos/bobcat.jpg)
But I'm not allowed to connect like I would with propane- using a hose and a jubilee clips
(http://charli.ellyll.net/photos/hose.jpg)
Even a hose meant for natural gas. I already have the flashback arrestor (natural gas version, its called 'firecheck'), but i just can't connect it up because I'm not allowed to use hosing.
And now 11 plumbers have told me they can't do it... I've ran out of local plumbers to ask. I'm not sure if I should tell them less/more, or how anyone else has ever managed it? If they have... what did they tell the plumber!
Yep, our plumber used normal hoses, no change at the torch end. He was very reluctant and only did it after speaking to an older colleague who assured him it would be fine. The official body who should have reassured and advised him just wouldn't do either. I will hunt for the guy's phone number, he might be willing to offer advice to a plumber local to you, who knows!!!! Sounds like we were VERY lucky to find such a brave plumber!!!!
Thanks Donna! It completely maddening! And if they were truly doing it for safetys sake then I could kind of understand- but when gas engineers are advising me to bring propane tanks indoors, or to run 50-ft rubber hoses from propane tanks outside through windows... well that doesn't seem any safer than having a properly plumbed in gas line to me... it just means they don't have to research something new.
Have a last idea for tomorrow- how about if i had a quick-connect-esque thing on the end? That would be a valve so that I couldn't leak gas when the torch was unconnected! A long shot, but it might be worth it!
I've even phoned the gas-safe certification people, who were utterly useless- they could only tell me if a plumber was on the gas-safe register or not, nothing else.
Quote from: Charli on February 24, 2013, 09:31:14 PM
Have a last idea for tomorrow- how about if i had a quick-connect-esque thing on the end? That would be a valve so that I couldn't leak gas when the torch was unconnected! A long shot, but it might be worth it!
The quick release connectors I have seen don't include a valve - they are just a way of disconnecting the tube - for example when I worked indoors and the tank was outside I could put the tubing out of the window when in use then disconnect and brong it back indoors. (I now have a garden studio and the gas tubing goes out through the wall.)
We had/have jubilee clips at the torch end and an on/off tap on the wall, between the torch and the flashback arrestor thingy and the mains gas connection.
Quote from: Calico Cat on February 24, 2013, 09:48:33 PM
The quick release connectors I have seen don't include a valve - they are just a way of disconnecting the tube - for example when I worked indoors and the tank was outside I could put the tubing out of the window when in use then disconnect and brong it back indoors. (I now have a garden studio and the gas tubing goes out through the wall.)
Hmm, my quick-connects (admittedly for propane, only ones I have used before- I don't purpose to be any kind of expert!) don't let the gas out if the hosing isn't connected- as in if the other part of the quick-connect isn't in place, so they must have some sort of valve in them.
Anyway a twelfth plumber has now said he won't install my bobcat because it isn't in regulations to do so. And a plumbers-parts store took one look at my torch and said 'No'. So after 6 months and what feels like a million phones calls to plumbers/gas safe/anyone else I could think of! I now give up! I think you need a friendly/brave plumber, and I don't know anyone who is gas-safe certified.
There'll be a brand new still-in-the-box oxycon up for sale shortly... And I might try setting my hot head up at the allotment shed for occasional use, not sure if the tanks would get stolen rather quickly but I'll try it once.
Thanks everyone for your help!
at the risk of being shot down in flames, why do you have to sell it, why can't you just use it on propane in your craft room and take the bottle out when not in use? that works for me, you can use propane indoors just can't store it
Quote from: Pauline on February 25, 2013, 05:43:02 PM
at the risk of being shot down in flames, why do you have to sell it, why can't you just use it on propane in your craft room and take the bottle out when not in use? that works for me, you can use propane indoors just can't store it
Hmm, the insurance people said that I wouldn't be insured if the propane was indoors- which I guess just made me think I shouldn't have it indoors ever. Wander if they'd insure me using smaller bottles- like camping-gas size or mapp bottles? I only specifically asked about 6kg propane tanks (as thats what i have!). Or if they'd be happy so long as it wasn't stored there (it was like 8 months ago i spoke to them- can't remember the specifics now!)
I shall phone them tomorrow... thanks for the idea... *ponders*
Quote from: Charli on February 25, 2013, 06:07:13 PM
Quote from: Pauline on February 25, 2013, 05:43:02 PM
at the risk of being shot down in flames, why do you have to sell it, why can't you just use it on propane in your craft room and take the bottle out when not in use? that works for me, you can use propane indoors just can't store it
Hmm, the insurance people said that I wouldn't be insured if the propane was indoors- which I guess just made me think I shouldn't have it indoors ever. Wander if they'd insure me using smaller bottles- like camping-gas size or mapp bottles? I only specifically asked about 6kg propane tanks (as thats what i have!). Or if they'd be happy so long as it wasn't stored there (it was like 8 months ago i spoke to them- can't remember the specifics now!)
I shall phone them tomorrow... thanks for the idea... *ponders*
You should be able to have at least up to a 13kg bottle.
I don't know if this will help; if it's the hose and fittings that are the problem, might it help to use stainless steel braid covered hose? Perhaps a gas fitter would be happier with this, as it's very damage-proof. Here's the company I used, for a project at work.
http://www.swagelok.com/search/find_products_home.aspx?part=SS-CT12AS12AS12-36&item=14b5dc8d-75c3-4718-aa92-528180632eed
Good luck!
I know this is an old thread but as im a Gas engineer i thought i would a add little bit to it. Should other people read in the future.
All gas engineers have to be registered on the gas safe register.
There are 3 categories of gas work
1. Domestic
2. Commercial
3. Catering
You need a specific qualification/ticket to work in each category.
The problem i believe in this case is that 90% of registered gas engineers in the uk only have the ticket to work on domestic gas appliances.
This type of work comes under the commercial ticket.
The penalties if caught working out of your categories Are punishable under criminal law by prosecution by the HSE.
Its just not worth a gas engineers career to risk unless he has specific knowledge and the ticket needed.
The second problem, as it is in a domestic property a commercial engineer may not want to do the work.
thankyou for that insight
Is it commercial even if you're not selling beads? I don't, I make beads but I don't sell them and I don't have a business.
I did get it done in the end, describing my bobcat as 'like a bunsen burner' and someone fitted it no problem. But describe it as a blowtorch and say it was for melting glass was a no-go. So I can do chemistry in my spare room, but not crafts!
I get it inspected every year with the boiler and no other plumber has ever mentioned anything (same company who installed it, but different people), and the insurance don't care so long as it gets inspected.
Hi Charli,
it generally down to the type of installation rather than if your working as a business.
gas appliances as classed as either domestic, commercial or catering hence the 3 categories gas engineers can work can work on.
sometimes there are grey area's where things can cross over between categories and sometimes common sense but if an engineers has no experience of it they will not risk it.
glad you got it sorted though.