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Technical Forum => Kilns => Topic started by: Donna@Rockin' Beads on July 24, 2012, 05:04:16 AM



Title: Paragon SC2 tCL error - Cherry Heaven unavailable
Post by: Donna@Rockin' Beads on July 24, 2012, 05:04:16 AM
Anyone know who else I can contact other than Cherry Heaven about parts for an SC2?

I phoned Cherry Heaven, who I bought it from, and the answerphone message is rather alarming in that the speaker states he is going into hospital and may be kept in overnight so it seems that no-one else is available to deal with problems.

My kiln is nearly 5 years old and appears to have a small hole in the kiln wall (it might be new, from a session last week when I wasn't in). I wonder if damage to the wall might be part of the problem or just a red herring.
Any advice most welcome  :)


Title: Re: Paragon SC2 tCL error - Cherry Heaven unavailable
Post by: Zeldazog on July 24, 2012, 05:22:15 AM
Warm Glass sell the SC2 Donna, might be worth contacting them?

My guess would be tCL is a thermocouple error, I had that code on my Hotstart a couple of years ago, but I spoke to Simon at Warm Glass who told me to check the wiring int he control box, and he was right, it was simply a loose wire and it was all sorted.


Title: Re: Paragon SC2 tCL error - Cherry Heaven unavailable
Post by: garishglobes on July 24, 2012, 05:34:58 AM
Try Hobby Ceramicraft. http://www.hobbyceramicraft.co.uk/kilns.php (http://www.hobbyceramicraft.co.uk/kilns.php)

They were brilliant when mine had a similar problem.

I should say that Lee at Kilncare was also very, very helpful and would normally have had the part necessary. I just phoned Hobby Ceramicraft when I knew what I needed and that he didn't have it - so it might be worth trying him first


Title: Re: Paragon SC2 tCL error - Cherry Heaven unavailable
Post by: Lee - Kilncare on July 24, 2012, 06:07:19 AM
Hi mate, well firstly let's hope that Robin is O.K.

TCL??? You sure about that????? I have no reference to TCL as a fault code, not in my copy of he instruction anyway.
However I would put my money on it being the thermocouple.

Take out the thermocouple wires from the back of the controller and replace them with a link so that it short circuits the connections.
Turn on the controller and it should read room temperarture, 18 degrees or whatever.
If it does, the thermocouple does indeed have a problem. If it still reads the error code then the problem may well be in the controller.

As for the damage in the side wall...complete red hearing as you suspected, however, do make sure the element is not now visible, it won't effect how the kiln works if the elements is visible but it will make your hair stand on end if you touch it when the kiln is on ;D


Title: Re: Paragon SC2 tCL error - Cherry Heaven unavailable
Post by: Steampunkglass on July 24, 2012, 06:28:30 AM
Ah, I've got instructions for a bluebird which uses the sentry4 programmer and it does list tCL as 'thermocouple lag' which it says is that the actual kiln temperature is 100f/56deg away from the programmed temperature  ??? ??? ??? ???  and it gives 4 options for whats wrong it lists;
 'thermocouple has fallen out'
 'worn or burned elements, low voltage or defective thermocouple'
'thermocouple has shorted out' and lastly
'you've programmed a cooling segment lower than room temperature

I hope that's some help, but it's as clear as mud to me  :-\


Title: Re: Paragon SC2 tCL error - Cherry Heaven unavailable
Post by: Donna@Rockin' Beads on July 24, 2012, 08:50:21 AM
Thanks everyone. The message on the answer phone was slightly alarming so I hope he's better soon.
I spoke to a chap at Hobby Ceramicraft and he thought the hole was the reason for the fault but that it has nothing to do with the thermocouple. He reckons a small break in the wall while it was on might have let the molten metal burn into the wall (my understanding of his description  :P).
Anyway, we have no tools in the shop just now so have various diagnostic processes to follow tomorrow and I have a call in with Paragon too.
I just hope it's the thermocouple and not the muffle  :( :( :(
As usual, thank you everybody for your help.
Donna


Title: Re: Paragon SC2 tCL error - Cherry Heaven unavailable
Post by: Lee - Kilncare on July 24, 2012, 10:33:13 AM
oooo TCL is lag, yes, I remember coming across that before.

I would like to readjust my diagnosis please class. :-\

The hole in the wall may not be damage caused from use, misuse or carelessness, it may well have been caused by the element failing, which inturn has "blown" the hole.
It is now very likely to be the muffle my friend....
However.....
most SC2s that have the TCL type problem usually have a failed relay so let's hope for that outcome eh.


Title: Re: Paragon SC2 tCL error - Cherry Heaven unavailable
Post by: Donna@Rockin' Beads on July 24, 2012, 10:50:30 AM
Thanks for that Lee. You're always allowed to re-diagnose  ;D ;D ;D
I'm hoping for the thermocouple, obviously  :), otherwise it's the muffle or maybe even a new kiln  :'( :'( :'(


Title: Re: Paragon SC2 tCL error - Cherry Heaven unavailable
Post by: Donna@Rockin' Beads on July 27, 2012, 02:57:17 AM
I've been in touch with Paragon as somebody recommended their support (well, they did manufacture it after all  :P). But I'm afraid I have not had very much help from them at all. I send off long emails, with photos and get single sentence replies back with no reference to my previous email. The reply doesn't come in 'til 1am and I thought the time difference might make it possible to get a reply mid afternoon but that doesn't seem to be the case.
Fortunately I am able to borrow my niece's paragon sc2 but I am still no closer to finding out what's really wrong, what might have caused it and what it's going to take to fix it.  >:( >:( >:(
I think I'd rather have support in this timezone for my next kiln  :), particularly if there is pink to be had  ;D ;D ;D


Title: Re: Paragon SC2 tCL error - Cherry Heaven unavailable
Post by: Lee - Kilncare on July 27, 2012, 05:41:37 AM
Hi mate, if you are struggling then you can always bring it here or send it too us. I try to avoid getting involved with the American stuff but if you are stuck then get in touch with me.


Title: Re: Paragon SC2 tCL error - Cherry Heaven unavailable
Post by: Trudi on July 27, 2012, 06:30:48 AM
If you need a relay you can get them from Pennine Components

Tel 017060815737 the part number is 4952343
T92 series, Flange Mounted, 30A, DP N/O

When I got mine last year it was £6.60 + VAT and delivery was £6.50


I have some instructions showing you how to change this but not on me at the moment (I'm at work) but if you send me a private message, it will remind me when I get home. It's easy to do, even a dummy like me managed it.

Hope that helps!

Trudi x


Title: Re: Paragon SC2 tCL error - Cherry Heaven unavailable
Post by: Trudi on July 27, 2012, 06:33:36 AM
Oh - I managed to get my phone connected to my PC to get the info!

Video link to show you how to change a relay
http://www.electrickilns.co.uk/fv07.htm
Paragon Manual
http://paragonweb.com/files/manuals/IM164_Paragon-SCSeries_
Manual_May2011.pdf


Title: Re: Paragon SC2 tCL error - Cherry Heaven unavailable
Post by: Donna@Rockin' Beads on July 27, 2012, 01:35:27 PM
Thanks everyone. I've told Paragon what I think of their support so it will either improve or go completely silent!!!
I'll see what they say then decide what to do but it does look like the muffle not anything cheap!!,
Meanwhile I do have the loan of a kiln indefinitely so tomorrow I'm making beads again  :)
Thanks again Trudi for your very kind offer but I don't think that's it, unfortunately.


Title: Re: Paragon SC2 tCL error - Cherry Heaven unavailable
Post by: Dragonfire Glass on August 05, 2012, 04:47:30 AM
My Bluebird is now showing a tCL error. It did the other day and I set the program off again and it was fine the next two times I used it and now it won't fire at all  :(



Title: Re: Paragon SC2 tCL error - Cherry Heaven unavailable
Post by: Donna@Rockin' Beads on August 05, 2012, 07:35:58 AM
Mine died completely with the first sign of the TCL error. Maybe yours is a loose connection.


Title: Re: Paragon SC2 tCL error - Cherry Heaven unavailable
Post by: Emma @ Tuffnell Glass on August 06, 2012, 06:28:59 AM
Hi ya guys, If I remember rightly this is a Thermocouple fail. In the manual it suggests the 'paper clip' test
One of our kilns is showing this at the moment. As soon as I figure out how to fix it I'll let you know  ;)

Em xx


Title: Re: Paragon SC2 tCL error - Cherry Heaven unavailable
Post by: TheJanie on August 06, 2012, 09:35:26 AM
This has happened twice to my SC2 (see this thread: http://www.frit-happens.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=31183.0 ) and as Trudi says, it was the relay both times.  I bought my replacement part from Pennine Components too - very quick service.


Title: Re: Paragon SC2 tCL error - Cherry Heaven unavailable
Post by: LampyLou on January 23, 2014, 12:15:05 PM
Without wanting to be repetitive this thread has saved my sanity.  I love Frit Happens!

I had his error, I read this thread, I called Lee who also referenced this thread.  I ordered the part from Pennine yesterday, it arrived today and I just briefly fired up the kiln and it started ramping up beautifully.  Phew.

I am very much looking forward to a very beady day tomorrow.

Julia


Title: Re: Paragon SC2 tCL error - Cherry Heaven unavailable
Post by: Trudi on January 23, 2014, 12:28:19 PM
Glad that this helped!


Title: Re: Paragon SC2 tCL error - Cherry Heaven unavailable
Post by: Shirley on January 23, 2014, 12:30:40 PM
Hmm.

Shame Cherry Heaven told me I needed a new thermocouple when I got this error. Tcl - thermocouple, get it? Spent ages unscrewing the back, removing old and installing new thermocouple and the beggar still didn't work. Gave up and bought a Maxi.

Still got the SC2, still not got around to sorting it out, even though it is probably just the relay :-/


Title: Re: Paragon SC2 tCL error - Cherry Heaven unavailable
Post by: Trudi on January 23, 2014, 12:39:18 PM
It's quite cheap and easy to sort out and you could use this kiln for fusing!


Title: Re: Paragon SC2 tCL error - Cherry Heaven unavailable
Post by: Shirley on January 23, 2014, 01:11:19 PM
Yep, that's why I've still got it. Not enough hours in my day at the moment :D


Title: Re: Paragon SC2 tCL error - Cherry Heaven unavailable
Post by: Blue Box Studio on January 23, 2014, 01:11:33 PM
Hmm.

Shame Cherry Heaven told me I needed a new thermocouple when I got this error. Tcl - thermocouple, get it? Spent ages unscrewing the back, removing old and installing new thermocouple and the beggar still didn't work. Gave up and bought a Maxi.

Still got the SC2, still not got around to sorting it out, even though it is probably just the relay :-/

They had me doing all sorts of tests, kept saying it was the thermocouple and they would post one to me if I paid up.  Then I couldn't get hold of them so I emailed Paragon who said not the thermocouple, but the relay.  Pennine are far cheaper than Cherry Heaven, and when I got confused between types, the lady in Paragon actually phoned me to talk me through the Pennine website.  


Title: Re: Paragon SC2 tCL error - Cherry Heaven unavailable
Post by: spexy on January 23, 2014, 02:54:19 PM
I got that error when my relay went, didn't know about Penine then and bought one from Cherry Heaven. Can't remember exactly how much but over £30  :(


Title: Re: Paragon SC2 tCL error - Cherry Heaven unavailable
Post by: Trudi on January 23, 2014, 03:33:49 PM
Ouch


Title: Re: Paragon SC2 tCL error - Cherry Heaven unavailable
Post by: TheJanie on January 23, 2014, 04:04:35 PM
I got that error when my relay went, didn't know about Penine then and bought one from Cherry Heaven. Can't remember exactly how much but over £30  :(

Eek!  But it doesn't surprise me.  I regret ever buying anything from Cherry Heaven :(  When I first had this problem with my kiln I got no replies whatsoever from them, despite sending numerous emails.  In the end I got tons of help from Lee at Kilncare and Sean Taylor (I'm still very grateful to both of you! :) ).



Title: Re: Paragon SC2 tCL error - Cherry Heaven unavailable
Post by: LampyLou on January 23, 2014, 04:56:25 PM
Wow. After hearing all that I have to say……..... Trudi - THANK YOU VERY MUCH!

J x


Title: Re: Paragon SC2 tCL error - Cherry Heaven unavailable
Post by: Lee - Kilncare on January 24, 2014, 04:16:01 AM
Glad it worked for you buddy :o)


Title: Re: Paragon SC2 tCL error - Cherry Heaven unavailable
Post by: Trudi on January 24, 2014, 06:42:26 AM
It's a pleasure .. glad it helped you!


Title: Re: Paragon SC2 tCL error - Cherry Heaven unavailable
Post by: Margram on May 09, 2014, 11:19:42 AM
I've now got this dreaded error in my SC3 - does anyone know if the relay Trudi recommends is the same in the SC2 and SC3? (Pargagon website is down for me)...


Title: Re: Paragon SC2 tCL error - Cherry Heaven unavailable
Post by: Lee - Kilncare on May 09, 2014, 12:04:11 PM
Hi Margram, the SC2 relay mentioned in this post will work your SC3 just fine.


Title: Re: Paragon SC2 tCL error - Cherry Heaven unavailable
Post by: Margram on May 09, 2014, 12:25:07 PM
Oh, thanks Lee! I went for it on spec, so that's a relief 8)


Title: Re: Paragon SC2 tCL error - Cherry Heaven unavailable
Post by: Margram on May 13, 2014, 08:22:53 AM
Eric has been on his back on the operating table and has had a successful procedure. His temperature is now rising to normal, WOOHOO! ;D 8) :-*


Title: Re: Paragon SC2 tCL error - Cherry Heaven unavailable
Post by: Lee - Kilncare on May 13, 2014, 08:30:27 AM
Eric has been on his back on the operating table and has had a successful procedure. His temperature is now rising to normal, WOOHOO! ;D 8) :-*
;D


Title: Re: Paragon SC2 tCL error - Cherry Heaven unavailable
Post by: Trudi on May 13, 2014, 10:03:15 AM
yay x


Title: Re: Paragon SC2 tCL error - Cherry Heaven unavailable
Post by: marklaird on September 16, 2015, 07:21:09 AM
If you need a relay you can get them from Pennine Components

Tel 017060815737 the part number is 4952343
T92 series, Flange Mounted, 30A, DP N/O

When I got mine last year it was £6.60 + VAT and delivery was £6.50


I have some instructions showing you how to change this but not on me at the moment (I'm at work) but if you send me a private message, it will remind me when I get home. It's easy to do, even a dummy like me managed it.

Hope that helps!

Trudi x

Would just like to say how excellent the service from Pennine Components is. Ordered the part yesterday (well two actually) and it arrived today - less than 24 hours. The relay is still only 6.60 but as delivery was almost the same price I ordered two and will keep one on the shelf.


Title: Re: Paragon SC2 tCL error - Cherry Heaven unavailable
Post by: Rascal on September 16, 2015, 09:25:07 AM
Hope it fixes it Mark, it didn't for me so I ended up changing the thermocouple. But Cherry Heaven and KilnCare were both really helpful, especially as the thermocouple in the kiln instructions wasn't the one which was fitted to my kiln! We had to liaise with Paragon in the states for which one was the right thermocouple, but Cherry Heaven got the right part and instructions.

Fingers crossed yours in more straight forward but if not let me know and I can give you more information on we had to do.


Title: Re: Paragon SC2 tCL error - Cherry Heaven unavailable
Post by: Trudi on September 16, 2015, 02:05:59 PM
Hi Mark

Glad that you had good service from Pennine. Do you have the instructions to change it  ... I found it very easy but my tip would be to take a picture of the old one installed before you start and to change one wire at a time so that you get them on right!

Trudi


Title: Re: Paragon SC2 tCL error - Cherry Heaven unavailable
Post by: marklaird on September 17, 2015, 03:25:47 AM
All working now - I did as the Paragon instructions said and transferred one wire at a time. Took at total of about 15 minutes and that included getting the bottom off the kiln.
Must say that the information on this forum proved to be so useful again.


Title: Re: Paragon SC2 tCL error - Cherry Heaven unavailable
Post by: Trudi on September 17, 2015, 03:50:06 AM
Great stuff!