Has anyone got a Bullseye bead annealling schedule they would share with me? I have a rough idea from looking at the Jim Kervin book, but would like to hear what other people use as annealling schedules so differ from person to person and book to book.
I got these rods through today and I am excited about using them, but its pricey stuff so I want them properly annealed :D
(ooooh purples.... hmmmm pinks....)
Claire - as far as I'm aware it's the same schedule as Moretti. Most people seem to soak for an hour at 520C, then ramp down at about 60C per hour to 371C, but I have read that some people will soak as high as 1000F (537C)?
Someone might have a more specific, tried and tested schedule. Good luck chuck - looking forward to seeing those bullseye beadies. ;D
HP x
The Jim Kervin & Bandhu books says it has a different annealing temp and strain point to effetre so i dont wanna risk it...
The down side is - each one of the books gives a different strain point and annealing temp! aaaaaaargh! >:( I've searched LE and couldnt find a definitive temp either....
More research I think!
I just looked around the web, wet canvas etc - and the annealing & strain temps change from page to page from anything from 990f to 935f! erk! and the strains from 820f to 500f!
Is there no information on the Bullseye website?
I know their tech notes are usually quite comprehensive.
I tried looking and couldnt find :-( theres lots of stuff for fusing but not beadmaking....
Maybe its just me being thick I dunno, my M.e. isnt good and I have slight dyslexia when its bad and I dont read things properly etc. So high chance I am missing it! I will get hubby to look for me I think!
http://www.chockadoo.com/Annealbullseye.html
Here is a link to a schedule Claire. I haven't used it so I can't vouch for it. I have had a quick go with bullseye and had no problem using my usual schedule which I use for effetre etc and spectrum.
Hi Claire.
On the Bullseye site, there's loads of info here:
http://www.bullseyeglass.com/education/
The Technotes 4 PDF is probably the one you want, it gives the annealing temp of 516C, strain point of 493C and in the schedule (albeit for fusing) shows the kiln being allowed to cool naturally from 371C onwards.
Good luck!
HP x
Thanks so much! my brain aches far less now :-)
if the anneal temp is 516 then, i may as well do it at 520 with my effetre, I ramp down to 371 at 50c an hour so that seems that would work well then. I'll double check with polarising filters though :D
Sorry to bring up an old topic but... I have found a supplier of art clay near me and low and behold they are creative glass and they sell bullseye! silly me I bought some!!! I am researching annealing schedules so looking through old topics and wondered if the schedule you suggested Claire worked?
It fits with what I have worked out!!!
Sam
Hi Sam
I use the same annealing schedule for Bullseye and Effetre. As long as you ramp down very slowly to around the strain point - I go to 450 and hold for 40 minutes - they should be fine. Transparents and opaques have different annealing and strain points anyway so it's never going to be an exact science.
Yup, the effetre schedule was fine for bullseye. That reminds me really to play more with bullseye, its a much neglected glass is my shed!
thanks guys. I have done more research and am going to refine my annealing schedule accordingly! I know some of the CIM glasses like a slightly higher temp despite being a CoE 104!!! and stuff so for those who might be interested and i guess to check it would work here is my proposed schedule for effetre, CIM and Bullseye!!!
Seg 1 ramp rate 93, temp 540C hold (as long as you need min 1hour depending on size of beads I am making!)
Seg 2 ramp rate 60 temp 371 hold 40
Seg 3 ramp rate 168 temp 21
What do ya think???
Cheers for this!
sam
Hi Saffie, only just seen this.
I've always annealed my Bullseye with my Effetre schedule, actually my old kiln I only had space for 1 schedule anyway and I tweaked it to do everything. ;D
I'm wondering why you're taking so long to ramp up for batch annealing (I never understood why everyone uses such slow ramp ups for batch annealing, I've always just turned on my kiln and let it get to temp in 20 mins, nothing has ever broken, although you may want to slow it down as you get nearer the anneal temp so the kiln doesn't overshoot).
Also why do you need to hold it for 40 mins at 371 and then set a ramp down rate after this?
I'd just turn the kiln off at 371 and let the kiln cool itself, it tends to slow down its cooling rate anyway as the heat goes. If you're unhappy about turning off at 371 then keep the rate until you get to say 340 deg then turn it off and let it do its thing.
I don't know about annealing CIM specifically so can't comment on this schedule in relation to that.
Hope this helps :)
Sam - personally I would be uncomfortable going as high as 540. I would think it's better to go lower but soak for longer. I'm no expert on annealing but from what I understand of it, stresses in the glass are relieved between the annealing temp and the strain point which is around 440 - 460. So it is most important to cool slowly between these temps and hold/soak at around the strain point for at leat 30 mins to let everything even out. After that, internal stresses should be relieved and you can cool down quicker to room temp. I ramp down to 250 then turn off the kiln.
As Sarah said, if you're batch annealing you don't really need to ramp up that slowly although I don't think I'd be brave enough to go Sarah style and do it in 20 mins ;D When I batch annealed I went up to temp over 2 hours - so 260 per hour.
Hth :)
Mmm...ok will check out my schedule on my kiln currently. this was the schedule (except for my high temp!!!) on bullseye website! I don't generally batch anneal anymore I work to the kiln. I ramp up over about 45 mins to garaging temp hold for however long and then control ramp down to 360 and then kiln goes off. So this should be completely fine for my bullseye cool!!!
BTW i go up to 540 cos i thought and I am sure i read somewhere that effetre strain point was 537??? Am I wrong where the blazes did i get that!
Going to play with bullseye tonight, Have got polarising lenses from Sal so can do the check anyway!!
Thanks for your input guys much appreciated
Sam
Quote from: saffie on November 10, 2008, 08:30:00 AM
BTW i go up to 540 cos i thought and I am sure i read somewhere that effetre strain point was 537??? Am I wrong where the blazes did i get that!
Hi Sam
I think the problem is that there seems to be no definitive answer out there - however this is a good piece on annealing by Mike Aurelius
http://mikeaurelius.wordpress.com/2008/01/30/garaging-and-annealing-two-different-aspects-of-the-same-beast/ (http://mikeaurelius.wordpress.com/2008/01/30/garaging-and-annealing-two-different-aspects-of-the-same-beast/)
:)
Quote from: Rachel on November 09, 2008, 11:20:39 PM
although I don't think I'd be brave enough to go Sarah style and do it in 20 mins ;D
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
I've been doing all this again this week cos I just got my grubby mitts on a Maxine the other week and have been checking facts and figures and doing programmes myself too.
I found this really useful website by Kim Osibin who's been lucky enough to visit the Effetre factory, so I hope her information is correct. There seems to be so much bogus stuff about.
Here's
Johnny...sorry, here's the link http://www.flameworkedbeads.com/WorkingwithEffetreGlass.html
The strain point is 840 deg F which equates to 448.9 deg C.
The softening point is 1050 deg F which is 565.5 deg C.
I too wouldn't programme in 540 for annealing as it's close to the softening point and it''s really important to remember that just cos your kiln says it's a particular temperature, doesn't mean it is that temp everywhere. All kilns have hotter and cooler spots by virtue of their design and the characteristics of the elements. So while it may say 540, this may be the cooler spot.
My old kiln had the thermocouple at the hot end (fortunately) and I had a drop of 30 degs across the length, so I knew where to put my bead if I wanted a higher temp.
If you're working into your kiln as you go, why not just wack it on full blast to reach garaging temp and leave it to settle before you start work?
HTH :D
Hmmm, interesting.
Just had a look at Rachels link.
It's funny how there's so much conflicting information.
I thought that actually there was no annealing temperature as such, but an annealing range, the same as the coe of Effetre is not actually 104 but in the range eg. Effetre transparent and pastel are 104 to 106 with some exceptions in these groups being 109 to 113 (explains why red isn't very comaptible...ahhhh). Special colours and opals are 109 to 113...again...ahhhhhh.... ;D
So how can there be a set temp for annealing?
and actually why not garage at the annealing temp?
I've actually always set my kiln at a lower garaging temp, about 60 deg C less, but only so the kiln didn't overshoot the annealing temp when I opened the door.
Lots to think about
Actually it's really helpful that there's an annealing range (this is what I go by anyways) because if you do have a temp gradient across your kiln you can have one end of the kiln at one temp, and the other end at the other temp. woohoo.
I can't help but think the reason everyone uses different schedules isn't actually because they're annealing at different temps, but because their kilns have different charcteristics and they're compensating for that.
I'm waffling now.....must go and do some work.....but it's yukky out there and I have to cross the garden :(
OMG what a minefield! I am not sure where I got my kiln schedule from but it was on here i think some time ago! Yes i upped the temp to compensate for CIM but just reading the thread on LE and this is tricky, annealing temp for one glass in CIM can be slump temp for another the range is vast!!!
So.....what i have decided i to reduce the temp i garage at and extend the time my beads are in the kiln for! I generally leave a hour or so at the end of my session before the kiln begins to ramp down. I will reduce the bottom end temp down to 300 or so and then let the kiln cool naturally.
Quote from: silverlemon on November 09, 2008, 10:51:32 PM
I'm wondering why you're taking so long to ramp up for batch annealing (I never understood why everyone uses such slow ramp ups for batch annealing, I've always just turned on my kiln and let it get to temp in 20 mins, nothing has ever broken, although you may want to slow it down as you get nearer the anneal temp so the kiln doesn't overshoot).
I've always done this too in my bead kiln and have never had any problems with breakage. The only times I've used a slow ramp up is when I've been firing clay to bisque in my big kiln.