hi guys. most of you are far more experienced than myself, and therefore probably have upgraded from a hot head. considering the price of setting up an oxy/propane torch, is the cost worth the benefits? i am just wondering how much quicker you can work and whether its a lot easier to do detailed work with stringers?
also, if its worth upgrading, which torch is best? and is an oxygen cylinder a better option then won of those oxy-cons?
YES!!!
In my humble opinion anyway!
I love my Bobcat, so much more flame control, incredibly cheap to run once you've had the initial outlay. I'd suggest you try a dual fuel torch out if you can. If you're going to Flame Off, that would be a fabulous opportunity to try before you buy. Or there are several open studio type events advertised in Frit Happens which may help you.
Good luck with your decision.
Hazel x
Yss - yes - yes
Without a doubt it's worth it. You get a hotter, quieter flame, more control for stingers, the gas usage plummets, and you feel more well, professional.
It is worth it.
And even if you find it's not for you in the long run, everything holds it's price quite well.
Try a duel fuel if you can, I too love my bobcat.
Kirsty
yeah i am going to flame off. cant wait. does it speed your work up significantly?
It will speed up your work incredibly quickly!
I am personally in love with my HH, I like having the time to work on a bead, and some will say it is easier to make larger beads on the HH because it has so much surrounding heat (and I would agree!). The drawback on the HH is no pinpoint flame.....but I don't let that stop me ;D
It will definitely speed your work up, you also get more control. I adore my Bobcat, and would go for an oxycon.
Having said that, the HH is a great torch and you can make a lot of great beads with it.
Going to bottled oxy isnt recommended unless youve got $$ to 'burn', for softglass you dont need more than a single oxycon.
As for switching torches, could you imagine using nothing but candles to light your house now?
For general cheap bead making, go with a minor, for a torch which will HOLD its resale value, go with a cricket or bobcat.
you wont need anything bigger at all unless you sink into the madness, then its liquid oxy & Delta Mag's & real heat!
:D
I have a hot head but have used a number of different dual fuel torches quite a bit and i can honestly say for me i cant justify the cost of upgrading, i can work just as well on the hot head now! i guess it really depends on what you ultimately want to do, i'd say the best thing you can do is try out a dual fuel and see if it works better for you :)
thanks guys for your feed back. i read on tufnell that they can demonstrate a minor torch, but i dont want the hard sell, just honest opinions from those who use these items every day.
Quote from: dunkster on March 16, 2010, 07:05:07 PM
thanks guys for your feed back. i read on tufnell that they can demonstrate a minor torch, but i dont want the hard sell, just honest opinions from those who use these items every day.
You won't get "hard sell" from Tuffnells, they are brilliant and will really give you good, honest, advice! (and no, I'm not on commission!)
Lorraine
I'm someone who can't upgrade from a Hothead, as I have no room for an Oxycon in my wee flat.
I'm genuinely not bothered by the Hothead noise (I sing along to it!) and I don't find it too time consuming making nice beads.
For me its a hobby at the moment, and a Hothead is fine for what I need for the time being. I don't deny that if someone came along tomorrow and offered me a portable, small, Oxycon for a good price, I'd probably upgrade. But to be honest, I think thats largely down to the fact that loads of people are dismissive of Hotheads and insist that the bigger the torch the better - rather than a genuine NEED to upgrade on my part.
If you're going to Flame Off, there will be many opportunities to just sit and play with torches, - no sell at all, let alone the hard sell! If you want to, just ask around and you'll get loads of very honest opinions.
Martin doesn't do hard sell - well, never has to me anyway! There will be other sellers there too - for example Sean at Off Mandrel, so will also be able to provide advice.
I'd seriously wait until Flame Off to make a decision if I were you - gives you maximum opportunity to try a few beads on a few different torches and see how you go.
I'm not on commission either ;D
x
arg, im so impatient with my hothead, hardly have enough time to bead as it is...think i will upgrade eventually...have started saving up, rather than spending my money on more glass and going to try more dual fuels at the flame off (had a go on a minor and loved it ;D ).
quick question to llewennog though, why does a bobcat hold its sale value over a minor? thanks
I would say, if you feel the expense and extra kit associated with a dual-fuel torch is too much, or you're in a position where you just can't upgrade, then you can still improve to an excellent standard with your HH. Unless you're very determined, you will probably find yourself drawn towards some types of glass and techniques more than others, and there are certainly things you can't do at all, but you don't necessarily need to upgrade to progress and continue making gorgeous beads.
Having said that, the noise did get me down and as a hobbyist I got frustrated that I needed quite a long stretch at the torch to make a decent quantity of beads eg to make enough beads for a bracelet, I needed 2-3 evenings. I had a try of a dual-fuel torch and felt it was significantly "better" (ie quicker, easier to strike and reduce glass, more controllable flame size, quieter etc), so I bought a GTT Cricket and an oxy-con and haven't looked back or regretted a single penny. The main improvement from day 1 was in encasing. It really helps to be able to heat the top layer of glass quickly, so you can push it right up to the mandrel without effecting the base bead. I also love the effects you get from reducing silver glass, so it really helps to be able to adjust the flame using knobs rather than fddling around with tin foil.
As someone who upgraded ten 10 days ago - definitely. I learned on a mega-minor but then went for a hot head due to cost and in case my well known brief enthusiasm disappeared.......
11 months on (and having made beads in a freezing garage with extra socks on all winter) my lovely husband told me to go for it. I now have a bobcat (tracked down in California as there are none in this country at the moment), oxycon and SC2 kiln. I have a really controllable flame, I can encase thinly as the transparent actually goes soft now, ekho is not always poo (but still has its moments) and I can get colour out of magic and multicolour, as well as work on larger beads. It's much quicker, but am still going gently as I'm not great at handling droopy glass.....
Definitely try things at flame off - a great opportunity
Yup ;D ;D
I worked for a year with my hothead until I had enough money to buy a Bobcat and an oxycon... Encasing is much easier with a dual fuel, but I actually think you get better results from silver reduction glass with a hothead.
I look back on my hothead very fondly but have never looked back after upgrading to a Nortel Minor
I can get any Gtt torch, including Pythons or Cobras, if you need a Cricket or Bobcat (which are by far much higher quality than Minors) then please Pm me.
I can also get all the powder coated finishes done at source or if you need them done for an existing Gtt torch, again that can be arranged.
I also have a contact that custom paints Gtt torches, W's wife :D i think my Mirage will be going to her before It comes here!
(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa246/TghIII/customdeltamag.jpg)
sexy enough for ya?
i think i need to try out some of the dual-fuel torches at the flame off before i decide to buy one. thanks for all your help guys. ;D
the amount of money i have saved on propane since i got my minor burner and oxycon is really worth it for me. Ans its so quiet with a minor. I hardly ever change the gas tank compared to when i had the HH. just something to think about. x
Quote from: llewennog on March 18, 2010, 09:14:34 AM
(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa246/TghIII/customdeltamag.jpg)
sexy enough for ya?
:o :o :o It's making my eyes water :D :D :D
I'm on a HH, and just got a wee cheque from work for passing some exams, so as a memory of the pain I want to treat myself, but I can't afford both - so if you guys had the choice, would you upgrade torch to dual fuel, OR get a kiln?
No fear though, I will be trying trying trying at the Flame Off before I commit to a torch, but dont really know whether to prioritise the torch or kiln first.....
J
If you get a dual fuel torch you will also need to buy an oxycon :(
I was just thinking, I don't need dual fuel, I'd better pay for my camera first etc. etc
AND THEN I SAW IT, big girls torch and customised, dribble, dribble. Off to dream about what colour I will have, is it my birthday yet??
:)
Jo
Quoteis upgrading from a hot head worth it?
yes
I rather like the look of that purple spangly GTT torch...how many knobs does a torch need?!!!
Quote from: Redkite on March 16, 2010, 07:53:44 PM
I would say, if you feel the expense and extra kit associated with a dual-fuel torch is too much, or you're in a position where you just can't upgrade, then you can still improve to an excellent standard with your HH. Unless you're very determined, you will probably find yourself drawn towards some types of glass and techniques more than others, and there are certainly things you can't do at all, but you don't necessarily need to upgrade to progress and continue making gorgeous beads.
Hi Redkite - interested in your remark about there being things you can't do with a hot head. Being a newbie and only having a hot head and not in a position to change - what will I not be able to do? I ask before I try something that will prove to be impossible. I am avidly looking at lots of techniques and beads etc and keen to try lots out. But, don't want to get frustrated by not being able to achieve something unachievable - if you get my gist?
Terri
Quote from: theflyingbedstead on March 19, 2010, 10:56:56 PM
Quoteis upgrading from a hot head worth it?
yes
I rather like the look of that purple spangly GTT torch...how many knobs does a torch need?!!!
well the standard for a gtt is 3 knobs per face so that Delta Mag has 3 faces, so its a 3 stage torch and yes they throw a massive flame out thats (its not my torch its Scott Dieppe's).
Please also Note the Gtt LYNX Handtorch on the left side of the bench, you can find unicorns easier than those babys!
Quote from: Terri on March 20, 2010, 12:19:54 AM
Hi Redkite - interested in your remark about there being things you can't do with a hot head. Being a newbie and only having a hot head and not in a position to change - what will I not be able to do? I ask before I try something that will prove to be impossible. I am avidly looking at lots of techniques and beads etc and keen to try lots out. But, don't want to get frustrated by not being able to achieve something unachievable - if you get my gist?
Terri
Ditto ;D
Quote from: Miss Muffet on March 22, 2010, 08:00:56 PM
Quote from: Terri on March 20, 2010, 12:19:54 AM
Hi Redkite - interested in your remark about there being things you can't do with a hot head. Being a newbie and only having a hot head and not in a position to change - what will I not be able to do? I ask before I try something that will prove to be impossible. I am avidly looking at lots of techniques and beads etc and keen to try lots out. But, don't want to get frustrated by not being able to achieve something unachievable - if you get my gist?
Terri
Ditto ;D
In my opinion there is only one thing you can't do on a hothead and that's strike glass... for that you need more oxygen than a hot head can supply... Everything else you CAN do, albeit more slowly than a dual fuel torch,,, but you can still do it :) :)
I'm sure someone who knows more in practice will come along shortly, but basically you can't do anything that requires an oxygen-rich flame, simply because you can't get one! Also if you need to get glass really really hot, you're probably not going to be able to.
Mostly it's a problem with some of the striking silver glasses - if you have to repeatedly get them really hot *and* use an oxidising flame to get the best colours out of them, they just aren't going to work on a hothead. Reducing will work wonderfully, though ;)
I'm not sure about techniques that don't work, though. You're not going to get a pinpoint hot flame, but I don't know if that's insurmountable.
Quote from: fionaess on March 22, 2010, 08:30:26 PM
In my opinion there is only one thing you can't do on a hothead and that's strike glass... for that you need more oxygen than a hot head can supply... Everything else you CAN do, albeit more slowly than a dual fuel torch,,, but you can still do it :) :)
Doesn't that depend on the glass? I learned lampwork on a single fuel torch with Bullseye glass, and I got the pink and violet strikers to strike without even thinking about it. When I got my Minor and started working with Effetre glass, I couldn't get some colours to strike properly without considerable effort... :-)
I think maybe there's a difference between glasses that strike to make their colour (like reds, pinks etc...) and the silver glasses that "strike" to bring out the extra colours (where you are actually trying to grow silver crystals to produce different colour effects).
I used to be able to do the reds & pinks on a Hothead. Though some needed care not to liver and get grey streaks, some were lovely.
I could actually strike the silver glasses (at the time it was Terra......ahhhh, Terra.... :)) with effort, particularly on a small bead, but they were a lot easier with a duel fuel torch. To me, it wasn't just the heat but also the atmosphere - it is hard to get the striking silver glasses hot enough to strike on a HH without the reducing atmosphere that makes them go muddy. The duel fuel wins in this case because you can get hotter in an oxidising/neutral atmosphere.
There used to be a lady on Lampwork etc... a couple of years ago, don't know if she is still there, who claimed to be able to work boro on a HH :o
Thanks for explaining my explanation Emma :) I could get good colour from Rubino on my hothead... just look what Sara Hornik does in her 'Think Pink' tutorial.. but I could never get silver glass to strike for love nor money on my HH.. Mind you I did have it for over a year before I got my dual fuel and Im convinced that it taught me a lot about glass control, simply because I actually had time to think before I ended up with a puddle of molten glass :)
Yes, perhaps striking is just "very difficult", rather than "impossible" on a HH. The other thing I was thinking of was fuming gold & silver onto beads. I was given to understand that the HH wouldn't be able to do this.
Quote from: Redkite on March 23, 2010, 06:33:43 PM
Yes, perhaps striking is just "very difficult", rather than "impossible" on a HH. The other thing I was thinking of was fuming gold & silver onto beads. I was given to understand that the HH wouldn't be able to do this.
You should be ok on a cricket Cath :)
Quote from: llewennog on March 18, 2010, 09:14:34 AM
(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa246/TghIII/customdeltamag.jpg)
sexy enough for ya?
Porn for the lampworker,
that torch is the bomb (i have been practising the lingo, word)
at least it's not pink :P (but I guess purple is close enough)
I confess I am now getting to thinking about a more sophisticated torch. I will hopefully get a play at the flame off, but it's the idea of parting with the best of another £500 (including the oxycon) and then knowing that I can't sell anything is making me hold back.
(damn my lease)
Just a quick update, i have been told by my daughter to apologize for the sentence "its the bomb" or indeed "word"
apparently I'm too old to use such words and i had to promise not to do it again, so sorry about that. :'(
Quote from: madpup on March 24, 2010, 06:18:53 PM
Just a quick update, i have been told by my daughter to apologize for the sentence "its the bomb" or indeed "word"
apparently I'm too old to use such words and i had to promise not to do it again, so sorry about that. :'(
Too Old!!!!! >:(
(I can only guess what they mean)Are you allowed to say 'GROOVY' or 'FROODY" instead?
Even with such restrictions I am sure that you can find many, many ways to embarrass your daughter! Mwahahhahahh.....
Quote from: theflyingbedstead on March 24, 2010, 06:25:09 PM
Quote from: madpup on March 24, 2010, 06:18:53 PM
Just a quick update, i have been told by my daughter to apologize for the sentence "its the bomb" or indeed "word"
apparently I'm too old to use such words and i had to promise not to do it again, so sorry about that. :'(
Too Old!!!!! >:( (I can only guess what they mean)
Are you allowed to say 'GROOVY' or 'FROODY" instead?
Even with such restrictions I am sure that you can find many, many ways to embarrass your daughter! Mwahahhahahh.....
I still say cool, is that ok or not these days, i'm a granma 8)
Madpup, to be honest I was going to have to pull you up on that myself, simply because I haven't a clue what you're on about ???
Even when I'm not trying to be cool I get told off for trying to be cool, you can't win :)
:)
Jo
Don't suppose we will be getting them sparkly posh torches now !? It took me nearly all night to find "the" thread, not knowing was killing me !!
probably not, but I'm sure we will find something better. besides its not the torch its what you do with them ;)
My sisters who are in their very early 20s tell me that I'm embarrassing and then when we are out as a family, in public, they scream and shout at each other. Go figure!?!
I'm just pleased that FAB is back in favour. I am still using it from its original incarnation in the 60's. (Not admitting to being that old though).
Are we allowed to say Fandabidozy or is that just naff? (are we allowed to say naff?)
It's a minefield
:)
Jo
Quote from: jobead on March 25, 2010, 06:57:28 PM
Are we allowed to say Fandabidozy or is that just naff? (are we allowed to say naff?)
It's a minefield
:)
Jo
Only if you want to sound like one of the Crankies Jo.. ;D ;D ;D
I think you're safe to say what ever you want so long as the young people don't hear you