I have been planning to post more info about using an Impress bead liner from www.artintheround.com as there have been some additions to the range. So I have modified my post from several years ago - feedback is welcome!
(http://www.theflyingbedstead.com/Auction/BigBangBeads/IMG_2672.jpg)
Step 1
I used a 5mm mandrel for my beads lightly dipped in Fusion bead release.
It is important to use beads with good dimples otherwise the beads can crack as the silver needs somewhere to move to when it is flared and beads can also break if they are not a consistent width as this can cause uneven pressure being applied. I have ground down bead holes using my Dremel and a spherical abrasive bit and that works very well providing I get the silver to flare out to cover the ground area.
(http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/o798/Charlotte_Dakin-Norris/impress8_zps490570ab.jpg)
Measure the bead using digital callipers. Dave suggests adding a minimum of 3.6mm to the length and cut using a pipe cutter. Ensure that the blade is sharp and that you cut using little force to prevent the pipe from being squeezed too much. In my first picture, the left bead has tube cut 3.6mm longer, the middle 4.2mm longer and the right bead 4.6mm longer than the bead.
De-burr the ends on the inside and outside; many pipe-cutters have an attachment which pulls out and can be used to clear snags from inside tubes, although I find using drill bits gives a neater finish. Dave sells a bespoke tube de-burrer which works very well. Use fine sandpaper or a fine file to carefully remove any ridges or burrs from the outside of the tube, whilst being careful to keep the cut edge flat.
(http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/o798/Charlotte_Dakin-Norris/impress9_zpse55134ef.jpg)
I annealed the tubes by heating with a blowtorch until they are a dull cherry red colour and quench. Then clean the tubing.
Step 2
For the 4.3mm I/D tube, I used the 4.2mm peg (with a blue marking in the screw slot)...ideally a 4.3mm peg should be used, but Art in the Round does not have an 'off-the-peg' 4.3mm peg yet!
Step 3
Place the bead to be lined in the centre of the tube and place into the Impress
(http://www.theflyingbedstead.com/Auction/BigBangBeads/IMG_2685.jpg)
I followed Dave's instructions and positioned the flaring tool to be snug on the tube (without applying pressure) and then turned the arm 3/4 of a turn, and flipped the bead & tube over then turned another 3/4, flipped the bead and turned the arm 1/2 turn, then flipped the bead and another 1/2 turn and repeated this until the tubing was curled over both ends of the bead.
For the third (right hand) bead I turned the arm a whole turn then flipped the bead and turned a whole turn and continued this way to get the tube to flare out more. It is difficult to get the thin-walled tube to flare out flat; the thin-walled tube seems to suit the curved edge better and it is easier to get a good result this way.
(http://www.theflyingbedstead.com/Auction/BigBangBeads/IMG_2690.jpg)
The cores above have not been polished yet. With the thick-walled tube I sometimes need to finish off by gently tapping the core with a repousse hammer with the bead supported on a rubber bench block. The beads lined using annealed thin-walled tube seem secure enough to skip this process.
If you have a long bead, you can adjust the height of the tool by adding some risers, which are also available from Art In The Round. Unscrew the base plate from the tool and add as many risers as you need. The kit comes with two steel blocks to raise the height by an extra 2.5 cm. I bought two sets so I can line even taller beads!
(http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/o798/Charlotte_Dakin-Norris/impress2_zps06ae45d4.jpg)
(http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/o798/Charlotte_Dakin-Norris/impress3_zps915bb8c1.jpg)
For a long bead I experimented with the length and found that an extra 5mm was required to get the edges to curl over nicely. I guess that the extra length of tubing in a long bead contracts that bit more when riveting.
The longest bead that I have lined in silver to date is 5.3 cm, and the thin-walled tubing is just starting to slightly buckle inside. The tubing is 5mm O/D and 4.3mm I/D, so it is a thin walled tube.
(http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/o798/Charlotte_Dakin-Norris/impress4_zps9202fc53.jpg)
If you need to change the peg it is really important to follow Dave's instructions. You can either use his custom 'Little Phil' tool, or a similar #2 size phillips-head attachment if you can find one short enough.
(http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/o798/Charlotte_Dakin-Norris/impress7_zps8726ec53.jpg)
Alternatively, you have to remove the handle with the flaring section (complete with ball-bearing) and change the peg by using a screwdriver to unscrew the peg through the top of the liner, as in the photo.
(http://www.theflyingbedstead.com/Auction/BigBangBeads/IMG_2674.jpg)
Do not screw up the new peg tightly (just 'finger-tight' will do) as you may damage the peg otherwise.
Replace the flaring section and screw-thread arm ensuring that the flaring section is straight. Dave sent some brass tubing and nuts to practice with the Impress, so I made a bead using these components which I use to centre and set the flaring section in place.
(http://www.theflyingbedstead.com/Auction/BigBangBeads/IMG_2678.jpg)
(http://www.theflyingbedstead.com/Auction/BigBangBeads/IMG_2680.jpg)
The thin-walled tube that I used fits the Troll and Pandora systems...
(http://www.theflyingbedstead.com/Auction/BigBangBeads/IMG_2696.jpg)
The image above shows the thin-walled tube 5mm O/D 4.3mm I/D with the 4.2mm peg
http://www.fritenglas.nl/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=7_61&products_id=572
Rashbel 5mm O/D 4mm I/D tube with 4mm peg
http://www.rashbel.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=1_19_20_83&product_id=1911
Cooksons 5mm O/D 3.8mm I/D tube with 3.8mm peg
http://www.cooksongold.com/Tube/Sterling-Silver-Tube-Ref-1-Outside-Diameter-5.0mm-Inside-Diameter-3.8mm-0.6mm-Wall-Thickness-prcode-RSA-001
With regards to peg sizes it isn't as nearly as complicated as trying to explain it!
If you start with the mandrel size – I usually use 5mm for my silver lined beads.
You then need to find some tube to fit that. Rashbel sells some 5mm O/D (the size of the mandrel) with an inner diameter (I/D) of 4mm (it has a 0.5mm wall thickness). So the peg that you need has an I/D of 4mm, and Dave has one of those which he has labelled as 3/16.118 inch O/D / .156 inch I/D (4.8mm O/D / 4mm I/D). The important size here is the I/D as the outer size is not considered in the peg design. The larger pegs are basically screws which Dave has turned on his lathe to be the right I/D size.
For the Cookson's 5mm O/D tubing, that has an I/D of 3.8mm, so the peg you would need for that would be the 5mm O/D / 3.8mm I/D.
This is the current list of pegs that Art in the Round sell - the ends or slots of the Centering Pegs are color-coded as follows:
5 mm OD / 4.1 mm ID (.200 inch OD / .162 inch ID) - Purple on end
5 mm OD / 3.8 mm ID (.200 inch OD / .150 inch ID) - Green on end
5.5 mm OD / 4.2 mm ID (.216 inch OD / .165 inch ID) - Blue in slot
6 mm OD / 4.6 mm ID (.240 inch OD / .181 inch ID) - Black on end
6 mm OD / 5 mm ID (.240 inch OD / .197 inch ID)
6 mm OD / 5.1 mm ID (.240 inch OD / .201 inch ID) - Aqua on end
3/16 inch OD / .156 inch ID (4.8 mm OD / 4.0 mm ID) - Plain
1/4 inch OD / .218 inch ID (.635 mm OD / 5.5 mm ID) Plain
Special peg for 4.37 mm ID - Dark blue on end
#101-8 Flaring Die for 3/32 OD X 1/16 ID 3/32 mandrel beads
#101-9 Flaring Die for 1/8 OD X 3/32 ID 1/8 inch mandrel beads
#10110 Flaring Die for 5/32 OD X 1/8 ID tubes for 5/32 mandrel beads
Dave produced some custom pegs for me, which he later incorporated as part of his range. So before buying any tubing that he hasn't already got a peg for, it would be worth asking him if he could make one.
I have also successfully lined beads with copper, brass and thin walled stainless steel tubing; the brass is stiffer and the copper softer, so it is worth experimenting with these to get the finished look you prefer.
With copper tubing:
(http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/o798/Charlotte_Dakin-Norris/impress5_zpsd8f272b3.jpg)
With stainless steel tubing:
(http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/o798/Charlotte_Dakin-Norris/impress15_zps2802fb3f.jpg)
And these are lined with brass, silver and steel tubing:
(http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/o798/Charlotte_Dakin-Norris/impress10_zpsfb76a277.jpg)
(http://www.theflyingbedstead.com/Auction/BigBangBeads/IMG_2693.jpg)
It is worth noting that Troll, Pandora, Love Links and the other charm systems have different sized cores for their beads, so you will need to check which ones that you would prefer to cater for.
Lovelinks measures 4.82mm in diameter if you take the fluted end section into account.
Pandora is 4.25mm in diameter if you take the screw-thread end section into account.
Troll measures 3.3mm across the diagonal of the foxtail chain.
This means that all of the above beads will fit the Troll system, the Lovelinks bead will fit the Pandora, but only the Lovelinks bead will fit the Lovelinks bracelet.
I have the original Impress but there is now also a Wide Impress Bead Liner for even bigger beads.
Charlotte, thank you so much!
That is a beautifully written explanation, I hope Dave has been warned that there's likely to be a rush!
;D
I got mine Friday last week and have done 4 successfully.
It's so easy, you don't need to bother with annealing the tube and the great thing is it doesn't leave lots of dents and scratches that need filing and polishing out like you get with using dapping punches.
I thought 2 cones would have been better, but actually the cone on the top with the taper and flat at the bottom seems to shape both ends in different ways. The cone does the flaring and the bottom bit flattens the bit just flared. Excellent, 2 operations at the same time.
I managed to break 2 beads because I was getting carried away with how easy it was and was rushing, so my top tip would be to take your time and be careful to centre the bead up the tube, ie just actually watch what you're doing instead of keeping one eye on the telly and thinking about dinner! ;D It was my fault not the tool, operator error ;D
Thanks for your comments Sarah! Yes, the two ends shape in a different way.
I annealed my silver because I didn't want to take any chances with the tube splitting and it is something I was trained to do as a silversmith, and old habits die hard! If you can miss this step out then that's great as it all adds time to the process and not everyone has the tools for this. I modified my post as I forgot to add that I had NOT finished the cores by tapping gently with a planishing/rawhide/rubber hammer, as the bead I used above did not need it, and I wonder if that is because I annealed them to make the metal softer? If you don't need to do that either then that is great!
I haven't had many casualties either. It is important to use beads with good dimples otherwise the beads can crack as the silver needs somewhere to move to when it is flared and beads can also break if they are not a consistant width which can cause uneven pressure being applied. I have ground down bead holes using my dremel and a diamond bit and that works well.
I think I'll add this to the post as well!
Good tut for a good tool :) I'm sure a few who've been considering a beadliner will be pushed over the edge by this ;D
I must say that it's really easy to use and the only beads I've broken have been the slightly wonky ones that I thought I'd just try out to see i f I could get away with it ::) I have pinged a few bumps off bumpy beads though :(
QuoteI have pinged a few bumps off bumpy beads though
So have I!!! ::) I think that the trick is to not have the bumps too close to the edge so that they do not come into contact with the Impress, and to not have to finish off the coring by using a hammer. I think that the FenG thin walled tube will allow me to not have to do this step!
Great tut, Charlotte! Very clear (and gorgeous beads to show for it :))
Where do you get the FenG thin walled tube from, if you don't mind me asking?
This is an excellent tutorial. I've bought some big hole mandrels and had assumed that I would buy the glue-in liners if I start making good enough big hole beads - after this tut I'm more likely to consider getting the Impress tool.
More money!
Thanks though.
Thank you Julie and Neil!
QuoteWhere do you get the FenG thin walled tube from, if you don't mind me asking?
It's from Christina at Frit & Glas. http://www.fritenglas.eu/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=91&zenid=70c783ca62dd95890128a0fe02ad3d68
Thank you very much for the prompt - I have added links to the tut. I think that she has several sizes so it is best to contact her before ordering to make sure that you get the right one. She also sells the FenG beadliner, which I haven't tried.
What a fab tut, I have put that the bead liner on the top of my I want list!!
Hels
I posted and ran last time, but I meant to say good tut, thank you Charlotte.
I always anneal silver (my training too) but was intrigued to see if it would work ok without. I thought it would
a) save time - getting out tools and pickling
b) hopefully mean less dents, and therefore less polishing
I did finish my beads off with hammering down, and it wasn't quick, probably because they weren't annealed. ;)
The one I tried to use the tool all the way was one that broke, but it was slightly fatter on one side, if I'd finished by hand like he suggested it would have survived.
I also like the fact that the cone end burnishes the silver slightly as it rotates and pushes the silver down and out.
I also meant to say that I bought the deburring tool also, and run this around the inside of the tube after I have cut it, then run a small file around the outside to clean off the annoying ridge that you get around the outside. Still very quick compared to the other time consuming method.
I really want to buy the thin walled tubing from Frit & Glass, but I keep getting put off by the 15 euros postage.. surely it can't cost that much?!
Thanks Sarah! I think that we should assess our beads before we core, to check that any imperfections don't risk breaking the bead! I'll try not annealing the tube next time and see how I go - I agree it would save a lot of time and faffing about.
I love the tool, it is so simple and portable. The Jim Moore one is a lot faster and I notice that they now have a demo video for it on their website. I think if I was doing a lot of these then I would invest in one.
QuoteI really want to buy the thin walled tubing from Frit & Glass, but I keep getting put off by the 15 euros postage.. surely it can't cost that much?!
Christina sent mine by EMS so it came via Parcelforce in a couple of days rather than Royal Mail taking longer. I also ordered some enamels, sifter pots and Lauscha & Reichenbach glass, so I made as much use of the postage as I could! It did take a long time to arrive as Christina had to wait for her silver order to arrive and she was ill, but the wait was worth it!
Hope its okay to add a pic in this thread?
I wanted to show how I adapted my Impress to take large focal beads - I simply unscrewed the legs from underneath and added a nut either side to raise the height (had to use longer screws to reassemble it).
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a111/biggirlsblouseuk/P5110333.jpg)
Thanks for that Julie - and of course it's ok to add pics and ideas! Wish I'd thought of that before buying some risers from Dave - DOH!
Hi Becky,
Thank you for your kind words!
I tend to use my beloved Dremel with a felt mop and rouge to polish the silver afterwards, but with the beads in the tutorial I didn't feel there was any need to polish them.
When ordering from Frit & Glas, it is better to email Christina directly to see what she has in stock. I do have some of her thin walled tubing and have pm'd you about that!
Charlotte
I have been scouring frit happens this morning for advice about bead liners. I knew there would be information here somewhere.
This is a very clear tutorial, thanks. Does this one work with copper tube too?
Lots of you have talked about using copper for lining beads in other threads but I have yet to find any pictures.
I'm getting the impression that this is the best value for money bead liner on the market, and easy enough for a complete beginner to use so long as they can make a decent bead. I am very tempted.
I haven't tried copper, but I have seen one that Dave (who made the press) lined with copper. There were some pictures on Lampwork etc. When I find them I'll post a link. He sent a section of brass tubing with the bead liner to learn with...very thoughtful, and that works a treat!
I have found the picture on www.lampworketc.com. Here's the link:
http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98334&page=3
The picture is towards the bottom of the page.
Quote from: theflyingbedstead on August 03, 2009, 11:25:59 AM
I have found the picture on www.lampworketc.com. Here's the link:
http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98334&page=3
The picture is towards the bottom of the page.
Post 89
It took me longer than I had hoped to save up for my Impress bead liner. But it arrived yesterday morning! Dave didn't send any practise bits with it which was a shame as I would of sat down then and there and had a go. But I am hoping to make my first today. I have been making dozens of big hole beads in anticipation. Wish me luck!
Good luck, Julia!! Just take it slowly and you'll be fine ;D
Great to hear you're getting on well with it Tracey!
I hadn't cored any beads for ages but I was finally in the mood one day last week (and sold a few of them at the Big Bead Show ;)).
I ran a little experiment when I first started that last session and lined a couple with my Argex silver tube unannealed - I can now confirm that it is definitely better to anneal the tube! The unannealed stuff was simply too hard to tighten right down onto the bead - I couldn't flare it down or hammer it or dap it.
I am ordering one :) how long did it take to arrive?
Thinking I must get one of these too, maybe a Christmas present.
Quote from: Ilona on October 24, 2009, 10:14:29 AM
I am ordering one :) how long did it take to arrive?
Mine took quite a long time, 4 weeks. I don't know what is the standard time.
I think this bead liner looks quite interesting - very simple (150 swiss Franc is about £90):
http://www.glasperlenkunst.ch/Beadliner/Beadliner.htm
Oh yes, I really like the look of that one Julie, not seen that design before.
Crikey that looks so like you could knock one up yourself doens't it, if only.
I am torn now between the Art in the round one and the one above.
After reading about the one above, it looks like you get all the differnt size pegs and they look very easy to change using magnets. Also it looks like you don't have to change the bead over then press, then turn it again.
Would the Swiss one escape customs I wonder?
Quote from: Ilona on October 25, 2009, 06:19:24 PM
I am torn now between the Art in the round one and the one above.
After reading about the one above, it looks like you get all the differnt size pegs and they look very easy to change using magnets. Also it looks like you don't have to change the bead over then press, then turn it again.
Would the Swiss one escape customs I wonder?
I don't know if you pay customs for goods from Switzerland, but it was the simplicity of the design that I found attractive. I don't think you have to turn it over, but you obviously have to switch to the "flattening bits" at the end, I suppose. Another forte is that you don't have to change bits if you want to core a long bead, and it takes wide beads as well. I had a dichroic pendant that I couldn't core because it was to wide for the Impress (unless you make a whooping wide bead this won't be a problem with the impress, though).
Good luck on your decision making! Also, let's not forget about Maria Louise's bead liner, which is the absolute best I have seen:
http://www.beadpress.nl/stempelwinkel/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=47&products_id=575
Unfortunately, the pound to the Euro exchange rate is not the best at the moment...
Julie / Ilona how are you getting on with the bead lining tool from Switzerland? Would be interested to hear you you got on with it and your thoughts.
I'm wondering too!
Hiya,
I have just received the Swiss bead liner, and have cored a few beads with it. With the £20 fee the bank charges for international transfer it comes to about £110 in total, which is comparable to the Impress bead liner with most pegs and risers included.
So, how do they compare. Obviously I have cored more beads with the Impress, and found a good rhythm with that one, but for what it is worth here's a few personal observations:
Impress:
Pros: Very good control on the turning flare, solid mechanism.
Cons: Need to change over pegs to accommodate different tube diameters, and also to fit the risers if you want to core a long bead. There's a limit on how wide the bead can be (normally not a problem with beads, but I had a fused pendant that was too wide to fit).
La Casita Bolita:
Pros: Very easy to change dies to accommodate different tube diameters. The corer allows you to core a bead up to about 25mm long. There's no limitation on the width of the pendant/bead.
Cons: The turning mechanism is "courser", with less leverage. With the Impress you can core a bead without annealing, but I wouldn't recommend that with the LCB beadliner.
I thought there was a limit on how small the tube diameter could be with the Impress, but I just saw that Dave has made pegs that can core 3/32 tubes. With the Impress you can create slightly different profiles of the cored edge (flat or rounded), but with the LCB you only get the flat profile.
I think that about sums up my experience so far - now I just need to decide which one to keep and which to sell on... :D
Thanks for that Julie - a VERY useful comparison! Perhaps this could be added to the wiki?
It would be fantastic if others who have different tools could do similar comparisons...I wonder if it would be possible to check them all out at the Flame Off?
i got my impress back before christmas and am very disapointed with it. i get split tube every time i use it. and have given up trying. i have annealed the tube and done every thing in the walk through on the impress site but it still splits. can anyone think what i might be doing wrong?
Not sure why this is happening. It could be that you have heated up your tube beyond the annealing 'cherry red' point. This can easily make your silver brittle. Are you annealing the tube after you have cut it, and is your tube cutter still sharp?
If I remember rightly Julie (Lush) had a similar problem and it
was as Charlotte said - over annealing the silver. :)
Quote from: Galloway Beads on February 26, 2010, 10:41:02 PM
If I remember rightly Julie (Lush) had a similar problem and it
was as Charlotte said - over annealing the silver. :)
Yep :)
I over annealed the tube in the beginning as well, and had a few split. What I do now is to turn off all the lights, it's then very easy to keep the tube just at the "cherry red" state. Hope you get it sorted, Julia!!
What kind of tube cutter do you all use? I don't like mine as its too big and clunky. Where do you get the little ones from?
I sit in a cupboard on the floor !
Quote from: Pandanimal on March 01, 2010, 10:43:32 AM
What kind of tube cutter do you all use? I don't like mine as its too big and clunky. Where do you get the little ones from?
Mines tall, handsome and not at all clunky ! ::)
Thanks so much for all your help. I have the heart to have another go now. I had completely given up and was feeling very upset at how much it had all cost. And annoyed with myself that I couldn't do it. and so on and so forth. What am I like?!
Don't worry, I've had one of these beadliners for about a year and I still haven't tried it!
Stressing BIG time at mo.....
will explain later, but is there any where in the UK where i can get the thinner silver tubing (for big hole beads) ?
Quote from: tsarvo on May 01, 2010, 01:45:49 PM
Stressing BIG time at mo.....
will explain later, but is there any where in the UK where i can get the thinner silver tubing (for big hole beads) ?
Rashbel sell them, but it's not listed on their site, you have to give them a call. The tube wall is 0.3mm, instead of the normal 0.5mm.
Rashbell but you have to ring its not on the web site ...
Quote from: tsarvo on May 01, 2010, 01:45:49 PM
Stressing BIG time at mo.....
will explain later, but is there any where in the UK where i can get the thinner silver tubing (for big hole beads) ?
I have a small amount from Frit & Glas - if you need it urgently then please pm me.
thanks to everyone for there help. i think i might have it sorted now.
still stressing so will post when i have given everyone food and i can stop to get a breath (and a whisky :))
BLimey, it must be bad if its taking whisky!
I like Whisky (and most alcohol drinks ;))
Yesterday was a nightmere and i have to say mostly my fault. :-[
A few weeks ago (aprox 6 weeks, yes i know!!!! >:() a lady asked me to make her a Pandora style bracelet and i said i would, up till now i have been using silver core caps from tuffnels. i ordered a impress bead liner at the beginning of the year and want to make my own. when it arrived it looked up all the instructions on how to use it and the more i read them the more nervous i became and kept putting it off. until yesterday. the lady had said that she needed the jewellery for the start of may. :o i had made the beads weeks ago and made quite a few so she could choose.
well............................... my test bead went brilliantly so of i went feeling much happer, but 6 broken beads later and hot sweats and a huge blister later and i was deep POOPOO!
the silver i was using was to thick to start with.
once i had carmed down i then made 6 more beads and they have been in the kiln. so now i am waiting for the new silver to arrive and then i will start all over again. (god i hope i can get it right) :'(
if not it will be back to the cap cores.
i would just like to say thank you for everyones help and this thread, as it made using the bead liner a lot easier to understand than Art on the rounds instructions (not making excuses for my self but i cant read and write very well, which is why i got in this mess in the first place)
any way thank you all. xxx
If you get stuck hun - send them to me ;)
Sarah, I'm thinking you're gonna be fine with the silver I'm sending you - its the easiest I've used because it is thin-walled so there's no need to anneal it (that's the bit I tend to get wrong, I either under-do or over-do it!) and it flares very easily.
If you have any problems, I'll try to help out, although its a while since I did any coring ... and Manda's offer is far better than mine!! ;D
Quote from: MangoBeads on May 02, 2010, 08:54:21 PM
If you get stuck hun - send them to me ;)
OH that very kind of you, at this rate i will be running out of beads.
am i being incredably clumsy or is it tricky?
(or just me? :'()
thank you also Lovely Lush.
It IS tricky - that's why silver cored beads are so fab and expensive!
The main problem I have (apart from annealing the silver) is if the bead isn't perfectly even and well-shaped at the ends, close to the hole - but again, this soft thin silver is more forgiving. ;D
you need to turn it very slowly too!
Quote from: tsarvo on May 02, 2010, 08:44:57 PM
I like Whisky (and most alcohol drinks ;))
Yesterday was a nightmere and i have to say mostly my fault. :-[
A few weeks ago (aprox 6 weeks, yes i know!!!! >:() a lady asked me to make her a Pandora style bracelet and i said i would, up till now i have been using silver core caps from tuffnels. i ordered a impress bead liner at the beginning of the year and want to make my own. when it arrived it looked up all the instructions on how to use it and the more i read them the more nervous i became and kept putting it off. until yesterday. the lady had said that she needed the jewellery for the start of may. :o i had made the beads weeks ago and made quite a few so she could choose.
well............................... my test bead went brilliantly so of i went feeling much happer, but 6 broken beads later and hot sweats and a huge blister later and i was deep POOPOO!
the silver i was using was to thick to start with.
once i had carmed down i then made 6 more beads and they have been in the kiln. so now i am waiting for the new silver to arrive and then i will start all over again. (god i hope i can get it right) :'(
if not it will be back to the cap cores.
i would just like to say thank you for everyones help and this thread, as it made using the bead liner a lot easier to understand than Art on the rounds instructions (not making excuses for my self but i cant read and write very well, which is why i got in this mess in the first place)
any way thank you all. xxx
Oh no!!!
It is all too easy to break beads when they have no puckers, as the silver needs space to move to when it's being flared, and a sharp glass corner doesn't give enough space. The thinner walled tubing can be far more forgiving if it's got a curled up edge to take the strain of tightening. So, I hope your new tubing works like a charm! If you need help you are very welcome to phone me...or visit! I am in Oxfordshire, if that is any help. ;D
I'm still having problems with my bead liner too. Where do you get your silver tube from Lush?
What a brilliant thread, thank you Charlotte and everyone else who has added tips!
Quote from: Pandanimal on May 04, 2010, 07:48:32 PM
I'm still having problems with my bead liner too. Where do you get your silver tube from Lush?
I would like to know too, I've ordered 0.3mm from Rashbels, is that thin enough?
Hopefully I'll be able to comment on Maria-Louisa's beadliner soon too........ ;D
Quote from: Veebee on May 04, 2010, 08:08:32 PM
What a brilliant thread, thank you Charlotte and everyone else who has added tips!
Quote from: Pandanimal on May 04, 2010, 07:48:32 PM
I'm still having problems with my bead liner too. Where do you get your silver tube from Lush?
I would like to know too, I've ordered 0.3mm from Rashbels, is that thin enough?
Hopefully I'll be able to comment on Maria-Louisa's beadliner soon too........ ;D
Maybe we could have a beadlining 'meet' to see if we can crack these problems...and I'd love to check out some new toys too! ;)
Great idea!
Now, I seriously need to make some decent BHB's lol!
Quote from: Veebee on May 04, 2010, 09:12:11 PM
Great idea!
Now, I seriously need to make some decent BHB's lol!
;D
I am trying to make some for the BHB swap...and me mojo's gone awol :(
Quote from: Pandanimal on May 04, 2010, 07:48:32 PM
I'm still having problems with my bead liner too. Where do you get your silver tube from Lush?
Its the same one that Kirsty mentions here :)
http://www.frit-happens.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=20317.0;topicseen
That is where I got mine from.
I tried again yesterday and made the silver go cherry red after I cut it. It was loads better. I'm just a bit nervous about the tapping it down tight bit.
The Idea of a silver lining meet sounds good. Every cloud and all that!
I would be more than happy to have it at my place in Wiltshire? If anyone can get here?
Quote from: Pandanimal on May 05, 2010, 07:21:49 AM
That is where I got mine from.
I tried again yesterday and made the silver go cherry red after I cut it. It was loads better. I'm just a bit nervous about the tapping it down tight bit.
The Idea of a silver lining meet sounds good. Every cloud and all that!
I would be more than happy to have it at my place in Wiltshire? If anyone can get here?
That is very lovely of you to offer - I am in Oxfordshire, so not too far away. I am happy to meet at yours or vice versa!
The cherry red is the colour to go for - and I'm glad that's working better for you. If your silver glows bright orange then you will have heated it WAY too far!
The tapping it down tight is the scary part, and I find that using the thinner walled tubing, and allowing enough length in the tube so that it curls over a bit at each end means that the curled bit can take a bit more strain when using the beadliner - and I have found I don't need to tighten it further to using a planishing hammer at all. This also removes the need for removing any hammer marks too ;)
My Maria-Louisa bead liner has arrived, it looks fab!! I have tubing on the way from Rashbels, so I guess I'll be makikng some BHB's this weekend ;D
I'll let you know how it goes as soon as I've given it a go!!
Quote from: Veebee on May 05, 2010, 04:53:39 PM
My Maria-Louisa bead liner has arrived, it looks fab!! I have tubing on the way from Rashbels, so I guess I'll be makikng some BHB's this weekend ;D
I'll let you know how it goes as soon as I've given it a go!!
Ohhhhh - you lucky thing - I have tool envy. :P
I hope you have a very happy time PLAYING this weekend!!!!! :D :D :D
nice one!!
I have a question to ask - If I anneal my silver, can I quench it to cool down or does it need to be cooled naturally. Also - do you need to clean it with anything special afterwards?
Thanks
Trudi x
Quote from: Trudi on May 05, 2010, 07:58:12 PM
nice one!!
I have a question to ask - If I anneal my silver, can I quench it to cool down or does it need to be cooled naturally. Also - do you need to clean it with anything special afterwards?
Thanks
Trudi x
You need to quench it. I just plonk it in a cup of water as soon as it loses its glow. It is supposed to be below about 500 deg C before you quench it, otherwise it can go brittle (was it brittle, or some other horrible desease?...hmm, long time since I read those data sheet). Afterwards it strictly speaking needs pickling, although it tends to go shiny with the polishing you do to finish it. There's a thread around here with natural safe pickles with ingredients you can find in any home, otherwise you can buy safety pickle from the normal silver suppliers. I have a great recipe using citric acid and water, which you can put your hand into with no probs, but the local pharmacy won't sell me any! Anyway, i just keep my safety pickle in a jam jar, and if i am in a hurry I heat it up by sitting it in a small casserole of boiling water. After pickling it looks greyish, but polishes up easily. Ah, just remembered, redhotsal uses cillit bang to remove fire scale :)
HTH x
So you do all of that, pickling and so forth before you try to core with it? It doesn't make it unannealed again?
Quote from: Pandanimal on May 05, 2010, 09:25:35 PM
So you do all of that, pickling and so forth before you try to core with it? It doesn't make it unannealed again?
It's really not all that much, it's just me waffling. :D The pickling does not un-anneal it, but you mustn't work it much (i.e. polish, tumble etc.) before you core with it. I
have polished the outside carefully before coring very transparent beads, but normally I don't polish before I'm finished coring.
Erm, I am not an expert, please correct me someone if I am giving the incorrect info!
Absolutely right Julie. Pickling does not harden the metal, it simply removes the oxide layer that forms when it's annealed.
There are lots of alternatives to jeweller's pickle, including alum, citric acid, vinegar and salt, coca cola (not diet) and good old cillit bang ;)
Quote from: julieHB on May 05, 2010, 08:17:38 PM
Quote from: Trudi on May 05, 2010, 07:58:12 PM
nice one!!
I have a great recipe using citric acid and water, which you can put your hand into with no probs, but the local pharmacy won't sell me any!
HTH x
Your local pharmacy may not sell you citric acid, but your local 'home brew' shop will ;D ;D ;D
oh, cool, Fiona, didn't think of that!! ;D
thanks, George, for explaining it all (including why nothing happens when diet coke has been tried ::))
If I have to remove fire scale from silver after soldering or annealing I use sulphuric acid. Works a treat. (More serious safety implications than the safety pickle though). If you do use this you MUST NOT use ordinary tweezers to get the silver out, you MUST USE COPPER TWEEZERS. All were obtained in the Jewellery Quarter in Birmingham
A bit of copper wire bent into a hook works a treat and is cheaper than tweezers. Plastic tweezers from the pharmacy are OK too.
Thank you, thank you and thank you for all this info.
I have decided to buy a bead liner, just cannot decide which one.
I'm stuck at choosing between Impress and Moore bead press. Will sleep it over and decide tomorrow.
My question is, for a beginner should I get the tubing with thin walls, or thicker ones? I like most the ones with rounded finish, not flat... Not sure if I am clear, but it's so late...
Hi Mag!
My personal opinion is that although the thin walled tubing doesn't always look quite as fabulous, I definitely find it much easier to use and have much more success with it.
Quote from: mrumruglass on May 13, 2010, 11:46:34 PM
Thank you, thank you and thank you for all this info.
I have decided to buy a bead liner, just cannot decide which one.
I'm stuck at choosing between Impress and Moore bead press. Will sleep it over and decide tomorrow.
My question is, for a beginner should I get the tubing with thin walls, or thicker ones? I like most the ones with rounded finish, not flat... Not sure if I am clear, but it's so late...
I agree with Lush, a thin walled tube is easier to work - BUT the finish is not as nice, at least the tubing I have been able to get hold of, and this is really bugging me when I know how nice it can look (I have seen too many of Manda's ::) :D)! So, with a thin tubing you don't have to do the annealing, but spend more time polishing. At least that is my experience.
I know you can achieve the rounded look with the Impress, but I am not sure you can get it with the other bead liners.
Thanks for the replies,
I have emailed Dave ( from Impress beadliner) and he has some in stock.
It used to be a waiting list of 2 weeks+, well, the price is up by 50% but I still think is good value for money.
Now I just need to get hold of my husband's credit card.... ::)
I know this is an old topic, but I just wanted to add my thank you as I've just tried lining my first bead with this press, and these instructions made it so much easier and stress free! Thank you! ;D
Wow! And thank you for bringing this thread to light again! I am hoping to get a corer for my birthday this month!
:)
Well show us then Glenn !! ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: Lesley Jane on January 12, 2011, 02:35:22 PM
Well show us then Glenn !! ;D ;D ;D
I would if I didn't keep dropping them on the floor and loosing them! :D :D :D I'm using brass and rubbish beads first to practise, the 2nd silver one I did broke :'(
Aww ... that's a shame :(
Thanks Sarah, good information
I'm really tempted to spend my birthday money on one - but they are soooo expensive :-\...
Marg, Deanne
I have the Impress One if you'd like to try it out! Remind me next time we have a get together!
I'm interested in trying out the brass tube from Ginko http://www.etsy.com/listing/61156079/copper-pandora-sized-tubing-for-core but I'm not sure if this is for 5mm holes - I don't understand imperial!!
I also saw this on you tube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0BUn55TXm8&feature=recentf
Here she's using copper tube - so different from silver, but I didn't think you could turn it that fast - am I wrong?? So far I've only used the thin wall tube from Rashbel that doesn't need anealling - I thought if you turned it too fast that it would split.
Can anyone enlighten me?
ta
Trudi, thanks for that, I def want to have a try (with some cheapo tube!) I can't make this Friday - off to see MIL - but next time would like a 'try before you buy' :)
Thanks Trudi :) (but I might crack and buy before then!! ::) :))
Quote from: Trudi on January 12, 2011, 08:27:37 PM
I'm interested in trying out the brass tube from Ginko http://www.etsy.com/listing/61156079/copper-pandora-sized-tubing-for-core but I'm not sure if this is for 5mm holes - I don't understand imperial!!
Trudi - I have just bought some of this from Ginko, together with some silver, but thought the copper would be better and cheaper to practice on. I bought a second hand Jim Moore press for my xmas pressie.
The copper tubing will fit 5mm holes, but it is ever so slightly larger than the sterling silver that Ginko sells, so I double dip my 5mm mandrels (I use Manda's) and it works a treat!
I know this is an old thread, but I've just read through and it's really helpfull. Just wondering, as have a 2 year old impress beadliner that hasn't been used :-[, is rashbels still the best place to get thin walled tubing for 5mm mandrels ??? any advise would be really appreciated :)
Rashbells or Ginko :)
Good question. I can't find the silver tube on Christina's site now. I'm using some tubing that Manda recommended from Rio Grande to fit her bead liner (which I love) but really need something that will fit Pandora as well as Troll. I'm happy to anneal so pre-annealled is not an issue for me.
I have updated the info in my original post - something I've been meaning to do for ages!
Hi Charlotte, I've just stumbled upon your update for this post, thanks so much for adding to it! I used the original version to get to grips with my bead liner and it helped enormously!
I noted in your update that you've used thin walled stainless steel - you don't happen to know the supplier of this tubing do you? Would love to try it! Also, have you tried 3/32 tubing - any issues with this skinny tubing?
I'm so pleased that it helped! I haven't tried the smaller diameters yet.
The chap I got my tubing from sells on eBay - here's a link to one of his sales http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10-Stainless-Steel-Tubes-5-5mm-dia-x-0-2-wall-x-322-long-/251587351725?pt=UK_BOI_Metalworking_Milling_Welding_Metalworking_Supplies_ET&hash=item3a93c654ad (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10-Stainless-Steel-Tubes-5-5mm-dia-x-0-2-wall-x-322-long-/251587351725?pt=UK_BOI_Metalworking_Milling_Welding_Metalworking_Supplies_ET&hash=item3a93c654ad)
I can't see any 5mm OD tubing at the moment though, but he does sell quite a few sizes so it might be worth sending him a message. If you want to try some before buying a load of tubes I can always post you a bit - just pm me your addy.
Thanks Charlotte, I would love to try a piece if that's OK, I will message you my addy! Thanks so much!
I checked out the guys Ebay shop, but he doesn't ship to Australia, darn it!!!
Resurrecting this very useful thread again; hopefully I will get a chance to have a go at lining with my 'new to me' Impress at the weekend. Quick question; does copper tube need annealing?
Yes it does, and I hope you have fun! ;D
lovely, thanks Charlotte!
Amazing how many BHB's I've found in my pots and bins all needing cores!
I bought one a couple of weeks ago too so hopefully will be coring soon too xx
Thank you so much, Charlotte, for the updated info!
I just decided to buy the Impress - I think they should give you a commission for maintaining this post :D
It may be great to update the links to tubing sources, because this thread always comes up when I search.
The changes since 2014 are, fritenglas.nl does not exist any longer, but Rashbel have a thin-walled tubing which should fit Pandora: http://www.rashbel.co.uk/silver/silver-tube/silver-round-tube/silver-round-tube-0.3mm-wall/Silver-925-Tube-Round-5mm
I also found this source for brass tubing that seems perfect: https://maccmodels.co.uk/materials-metal/brass-sections/brass-tube/brass-k-s-tube-metric-thin-wall/5mm-dia-brass-tube-12-long.html They also have aluminium and copper tubings but not thin-walled.
I contacted Debbi Hackeson from ginkodesigns, unfortunately she is not able to continue the business for personal reasons, but she hopes her US supplier Indian Jewelers Supply, who carry the right silver tubing, may soon offer the other metals as well.
That's all I know, thank you once again! Would be happy to see other sources published here.
I'm just about to post re new Argentium silver tubing... watch this space... I'll update with a link tomorrow morning...
Watching both threads with great interest :)
Argentium silver tubing - trial offer now launched - http://www.frit-happens.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=46624.0