Having just run my new kiln for the first couple of times, I'd really love to have a try at fusing glass in it. I'd like to fully fuse some coarse Bullseye frit COE 90 in a pendant mould as in this tutorial:
http://www.frit-happens.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=7488.0 (http://www.frit-happens.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=7488.0)
However, the schedule recommended is:
Slowly ramp to 1450. Hold for 12 to 15 mins, then anneal at 1050-1100 degrees for 30 to 40 mins. I think this is degrees C (although I can't find the units in the article), but my SC2 only goes to a max temp of 1093 degrees C, I think.
Has anyone done this in an SC2 and would you be happy to share a schedule with me to try as a starting point? I assume I would need to cool it down slowly too, but the tutorial doesn't mention this.
Many thanks for your help
All the best
Sam :)
What you are looking at are Fahrenheit not celsius
This is a really good site for converting your temperature
http://www.warmglass.com/phpBB/index.php as it gives the rate conversion as well as the temp conversion
Also if you look at this link
http://www.warmglass.com/basic.htm
you can find a really good free tutorial for fusing which is definitely worth a read through and will give you a lot of very useful information
I did the frit in a mold thing, but it came out - crunchy, if you see what I mean?
Yeah - me too Sooz ??? I think in order to avoid lots of bubbles in frit mold cabs you need really fine frit, which I didn't have so was using medium stuff.
Also I've read that they often need firing twice after filling up with more frit as the frit settles as it's melting. I think I read that on the site where I bought the moulds. I rejected it all as too much faff and put it down to experience ::), it's more fun making beads anyway :D
Yes you do need fine frit, I have been there, done that got the tee-shirt! lol :)
Thanks Diane, Sooz and sea-thistle for your input,
It sounds like course frit is probably a no go then. If I have a go, I'll make sure I expect a disaster, so I won't be disappointed.
Thanks Diane for the fusing links and for the temp conversion. They will be really helpful.
To be honest, I am desparate to make beads, but I need to finish setting up my workspace with correct ventilation etc, so though it would be good to learn fusing in the meantime. It sounds like fusing can be quite tricky - I'm sure it would be good to go on a course. I was lampworking outside, but its a bit cold.
All the best
Sam :)
hi Sam! my name is Karin ! I don't post vey often on here. I am in the process of setting up my own beadmaking studio as well and still got the venitlation to do! It will be March before I get started!! I've been fusing glass, around 5 years, my kiln is an SC2 mine only has the usual door, no bead door or window! so it will be a new experience for me annealing in it!! :D
Quote from: theseahorse on January 03, 2009, 11:19:09 PM
It sounds like course frit is probably a no go then. If I have a go, I'll make sure I expect a disaster, so I won't be disappointed.
Sam :)
You can use coarse frit (or you can use a medium frit too and tack fuse it rather than fully melt it) to get a very textured effect - which can be lovely.
Or why not try a little bit of flat fusing - just some sheet glass, you don't even need a mould for that (although a cutter is useful in that case!)
Thanks everyone for all your kind help. Well I braved it yesterday and had my first go. In the end, I adapted a schedule I found in my friend's book (Introduction to glass fusing by Petra Kaiser). I set it to fuse at 805 degrees C for 13 mins. I think this temp is a little higher than the temp recommended in the tutorial on here, but in view of the feedback suggesting that coarse frit might end up textured or with bubbles in it, I thought I'd go for this to try and melt the glass a bit more. The book said that you should observe at this point, I think to determine when it has fully fused. However, I left my OH babysitting the kiln, so I just went for a nominal 13mins as this was somewhere between the 10 and 15mins recommended. What happens if you overfuse glass? Does it go black?
Anyway, considering I was pretty clueless, I'm quite pleased with this piece (although I realise it does not look v good to you experts ::)) I'm not sure its wearable though.
(http://pic70.picturetrail.com/VOL1809/7783226/21234957/350004400.jpg)
The main problem with the other pieces was that they came out a bit dark. I used violet striker and cranberry pink transparent, but they seem to be a bit dense. I guess I may need to add some transparent next time I use these colours. As you can see, there are a few sharp edges so I might try and firepolish them. Probably a stupid question, but could they be flame polished with a torch or are they too big to heat and would crack? I have contemplated trying to make a coaster by sticking them on a flat piece of glass and hoping that this would add a flower design as the dark ones are pretty dull as they stand.
(http://pic70.picturetrail.com/VOL1809/7783226/21234957/350004401.jpg)
Dawn, thanks for your suggestion about flat fusing. This is definitely next on my list to try on the fusing front. I just need to buy a decent cutter and do most people wear cutting gloves?
Thanks again for all the help and advice.
All the best
Sam :)
Sam,
Personally I don't very often use gloves, although sometimes I might have a glove on my right hand whilst I cut with the left to avoid finger prints (any traces of fingerprints you leave on your glass will show up a flat fuse). I find them a bit of a hinderance to be honest, but I think I have become immune to glass splinters!
I can't tell how thick your pieces are, but I am guessing they are a few milimetres thick - if you fuse them to a flat piece of glass, one of two things will possibly happen.
Tack fusing, or low full fusing, and they will be raised from the surface.
This is likely to happen anyway, but if you take them to a high full fuse (Bullseye say 815 for full fuse I think, I do mine at 804 - even that seems to overfire slightly sometimes, depending on the glass colours) - the glass will try and be 6mm thick - so if you fuse to a square, that square is likely to distort at the edges as the glass attempts to spread.
Not sure if that makes sense - if not, I think there's a Bullseye technotes sheet that kinda explains it.
A sickle stone might get rid of the needling (that's what the sharp edges look like to me) - or even a bit of wet and dry is enough sometimes. I can't answer as to whether you could flame polish or not, but you could fire polish back in your kiln.
The blue one is pretty - the others that you say are too dark, what do they look like on the reverse side (violet striker does go rather dark, I have been caught out with that one in a student pack before, ooops) - you could always flip them over and re-fire to a lower temperature? Do you have any opaque frits? You could always add a lighter opaque frit on top if you feel they're too dense?
Many Bullseye colours will refire several times (some colours are prone to devitrification though - so make sure they're very clean).
And you could always sandblast or etch......
They are really cute.
I don't use a glove either, I chop and go :)
Dawn,
Thank you so much for your suggestions and advice. I hadn't thought of turning them over and refusing them on the other side. Two of the dark ones are opaque pink on the back - that's the only opaque frit I have (in the same COE). I also hadn't thought of adding some opaque frit to the top of them and refusing. I might experiment later in the week. I'll try and remember to post any developments.
Interesting to know, Dawn and Sooz, that you don't wear cutting gloves. I'm a bit accident-prone ::) so don't know whether I should get some to be on the safe side.
Thanks again
Sam :)
Sam I wear latex or those thin plastic equivalent gloves, but it's only because I get psoriasis, and it is triggered by the cutting fluid in the cutter. I didn't use gloves before that. Also you can wear these gloves when you are putting pieces of glass together to fuse, so you do not get marks onto your glass! I think what you have made is very good! it's a question of experimenting and sometimes you can get amazing results by accident!!lol :o
I have to say (touching wood) I have not cut myself yet, I have had the odd glass splinter that stings a bit, but thats about it.
I don't use either cutting fluid or gloves. If you cut at 90 degrees to the glass surface, the fracture will be clean with no shards. That way, the glass is easy to handle. I've only ever had one bad cut in about 20 years of cutting glass. That was because I used my hands instead of running pliers to break apart a larger sheet. One inch scar on top of thumb to prove it. If you use cutting fluid, you only have to clean the glass afterwards which takes up more time. Fingerprints can be removed by a quick swipe of a kitchen paper towel and meths.
Here's a fused piece I did some years ago,
(http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1426/5604171/12685369/229614340.jpg)
I always use an oil free cutter - I wash all the sheets of glass I buy in hot soapy water then dry and store in its plastic bag that they get delivered in. I like to wash my hands before I start cutting and also wash my cutting mat. The best way I have found to break glass once I have scored it is to use warm glass's small metal cutting pliers to assist the break
http://www.warm-glass.co.uk/Shop/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=285 (http://www.warm-glass.co.uk/Shop/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=285)
I have never used a mould but they look like fun, I have used lots of different types of frit though, I like to fuse it onto a glass base and make lots of frit blends to get different effects
I'm only cutting small pieces of glass and use the plastic running pliers, which I also use for my Stained Glass work. Touch wood I have not what I would say really cut myself. I also keep all my glass in the plastic bags they came in not only because it keeps the Dichroic glass protected, but also you know what colour you are using, providing you put the correct glass back in the correct bag!lol I also wash the glass before and after cutting, to remove any oil or grease, or finger prints. It is a bit of a hinderence having to wear gloves to cut the glass, but I cope very well. It's better than having fingers that I can't use because they are so painful to bend and bleed.I bought an oil free cutter and could not get on with it at all. Each to their own.lol
Hi,
I've been fusing glass for two weeks so I am still learning to crawl. I have tried the tutorial and also have a SC2. The results where not what I expected and I'm not sure what went wrong. The clear layer of frits power ended up a frosty white colour which covered the base layer apart from the very edges where you could make out the dichroic glass. What have I done wrong. I fired slowly up to 810C and soaked for 20 mins. Have I gone to hot, or not hot enough. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Simon
You are all so brave I gave up on the glass cutting and fusing, my hands were in shreds and I was totally useless!!!! It really stressed me out!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol
Hi Simon It's difficult to tell really what's gone wrong, can you possibly put a photo of what you made on here for us all to look at? It's very difficult to guess from the description. :(
Hello, what glass were you using? Wonder if that would make a difference? Also, I haven't got an SC2, but 20 mins hold sounds like quite a long time, my kiln's quite a bit bigger and still only soaks at 795 for 10 mins for a full fuse (like I said though, i don't know anything about SC2's so could be completely wrong!!)
Ooh, and did you cool as quickly as possible to the annealing point (usually 516C), as cooling too slowly can cause devitrification, which has a kind of cloudy scummy,appearance
Quote from: karnege on January 31, 2009, 05:06:17 PM
Hi,
I've been fusing glass for two weeks so I am still learning to crawl. I have tried the tutorial and also have a SC2. The results where not what I expected and I'm not sure what went wrong. The clear layer of frits power ended up a frosty white colour which covered the base layer apart from the very edges where you could make out the dichroic glass. What have I done wrong. I fired slowly up to 810C and soaked for 20 mins. Have I gone to hot, or not hot enough. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Simon
Simon
What glass did you use? I fuse Bullseye and I usually use 804 for full fuse now, depending on what I am doing a soak of 10-20 minutes so your schedule doesn't look too far out to me, Bullseye actually say 815, but that seems too hot for my kiln -
All kilns fire different, so you will find it takes a few goes to find the right temperature for your own SC2 as even the same model will vary.
Also, was the frit definitely clear? Some of the whites are strikers so they start off clear but go cloudy - as do some colours.
As Bluefairy says, it could be divitrification, but is a solid frosty white, and is it shiny, or is it patchy and scummy?
As Seathistle suggests, post a pic and confirm what glass you used for both base and top lets see if we can suss it out!
I use Bullseye mostly but some Uroboros as well. Everyones kilns are different as has been said, mine I have to have up to 880!! I kid you not!! for the full fuse ???. Mine is an SC2 kiln as well!! Had no problems with the above glass at that temp. :)
Thanks for your speedy replies.
the schedule was
200 - 677C - 30 mins
200 - 810C - 20 mins
Full - 516C - 30 mins
83 - 371C - 00 mins
Full - 38C - 00 mins
The surface of the pendant is very smooth but the cloudyness seems to be in the clear frits powder.
Used bulls eye frits powder
(http://www.karnege.co.uk/IMG_6567.jpg)
Well Simon, got me stumped!
Certainly doesn't look like devitrification to me.
Is it definitely clear frit? Where did you get it from? Could bags and labels have got mixed up?
I know from enamelling that powders have to be rinsed through, as they tend to cloud otherwise, But I don't recall having a problem myself with clear powder going cloudy - then again, I used it mixed with other large lumps of frit, and I can't remember the outcome anyway.
I've never used it to put a clear cap on something.
My only suggestion would be do do a test fire with your clear frit only, basically a small heap on a kiln shelf to see if that does the same - I can't really see it, but its vaguely possible it is some reaction with the dichroic (but again, never had a problem with clear sheet).
Tis a shame.
You could try posting onto the Bullseye UK forum, I know that there are Tech bods from Bullseye glass itself that lurk and post, so maybe they can identify what happened.
http://bullseyeglassuk.co.uk/forum/ (http://bullseyeglassuk.co.uk/forum/)
Dawn
X
Hi,
many thanks for the info. The glass is labled as clear but who knows, I got it from the creative glass guild online. I will try the bullseye forum, and also I'll try firing it to a higher temperature as previously suggested. I will post the results tomorrow .
many thanks to all
Simon
Hi simon The pendant looks like opaque glass with Dichroic glowing through it. I have only used opaque glass with dichroic then a clear glass on top . perhaps try and fuse a heap of the frit to see what happens ???
I fire my SC2 for fusing at 820, but my Hobbyfuser is about 770.
Hi,
What schedule do you use with your SC2. Tried it again last night at a higher temp still no luck.
Simon
Simon, what else have you fused in your SC2?
To me, the actual fusing looked about right - nicely soft round edges, so more than tack fused, but not SO hot that it has blobbed and needled.
If you've successfully fused other glasses at that schedule, then it's looking more like the glass than the kiln firing.
You'll find that most people who are saying they fuse at different temperatures ALWAYS use those, or thereabouts, no matter what glass - so unless you have had problems with other glasses not firing correctly, then I would look elsewhere for your problem.
My schedule (Skutt Hot Start) only generally alters if I am doing something thicker or thinner, so need to adjust firing for this, or something large so need to ramp slower, or something that might trap air so need a looooong bubble soak.
Yes, there is a difference between say, where a black glass softens to where a white glass softens, but clear turning white? Still sounds like the glass to me.
If you're still convinced its the firing and not the glass, you could always post me a small amount and I could drop it in with my next load - and if nothing else goes odd, then it will identify whether it is in fact the glass or the kiln.
When I get new frit I always do a test fuse to provide a colour chart for future use. I just take a small amount of clear glass, tekta for BE, and add small heaps of each frit and do a normal fuse. I find this really useful and worth the extra time.
Good advice there, Diane, I must do that with my frits sometime - I am not very organised that way (although I did do it with some seed beads I'd bought, as some changed and others didn't - but I have NO idea where the sample is now......!)
Hi,
cheers Zeldazog and co. Everything else we have fired in the kiln has worked out surprising well, just this mould casting which has put a dampner on our good results. I have emailed Creative Glass Guild where I purchased the clear frits powder from to see if they have any suggestions. For now we are going to try some tack fusing. My girlfriend and I are both trying to learn glass fusing.
cheers
Simon
Although this is an old topic I though it worth asking on here rather than start a new topic... everything I've fused/slumped so far has worked on the recommended schedules.
I bought the nano bead mould and used the recommended schedule for Bullseye and medium frit (ramp, temps and soaks) and got crunchy beads (ish, calling them a bead is a stretch) that were a disaster, although they did come out of the mould they looked nothing like the video lol!
Has anyone used the nano bead mould to good effect? If so can you share the schedule with me?
Cheers!
Mars xx
I've never tried this (and interesting to read an old thread! - one of the advantages of the forum compared with FB). According to Bullseye tech notes heat and glass, 760C is at the top end of tack fusing temperatures. As you want your glass to go smoother than that, maybe try 780C instead, which is into full fusing temps?
Maybe someone with more experience of this mould will come along.
Julia
Quote from: Mars on March 08, 2016, 10:01:02 PM
I bought the nano bead mould and used the recommended schedule for Bullseye and medium frit (ramp, temps and soaks)
Might be helpful to provide that schedule ;D ;)
On the train to London at the moment but will stick it up when I get home tonight with links/more details :)
Agreed Re forum, as much as I adore FB for chatting and selling. I prefer the forum for knowledge and help... Only been here a short while but it's invaluable!
Mars xx
I assumed the schedule was this one http://www.warm-glass.co.uk/images/pdfs/products/Nano%20bead%20instructions.pdf
:)
My nano bead mould is in two halves... says something about my luck with it!!
I fired it early on when I wasn't programming my own schedules, and I think I just used the built-in 'fast full' program on the Skutt - (see http://www.skutt.com/pdf/HotStart/HotStartManual_PR.pd- page 32 - it's in F but you get the basic idea). I guess the reason it doesn't ask you to go to anywhere near 800 is because the cross section of the glass part of the finished bead is less than 6mm across? So maybe if you held it for a long time at 800 you'd end up with blobs not rings?
I had the most luck when using the Colour de Verre pendant moulds, and my button moulds, when I held at full fuse (795) for 20 mins or so, but they're bigger, and sometimes the glass still pulled apart at the top if I didn't make an effort to put more glass at the top where the 'bail' was.
Hope that helps =)
I love Frit Happens. It was so invaluable to me at the beginning, I try to contribute and give something back now! =)
Quote from: flame n fuse on March 09, 2016, 02:37:58 PM
I assumed the schedule was this one http://www.warm-glass.co.uk/images/pdfs/products/Nano%20bead%20instructions.pdf
:)
That's the one, I dutifully took it up to 770 as I was using Bullseye Frit and held for 20 mins as it was medium frit - I'd mixed dark purple with clear as suggested for darker colours and I ended up with little mishapen rice crispy cakes made from glass ;D
The mould says not to take it above, I think, 785... so I'm thinking - switch to fine frit... take it up a bit in temp and/or longer soak?
I also have the oval pendant mould which I'm hoping will fare better as they are larger... but it's my first time with detailed moulds rather than just a basic slumping mould!
Mars xx
Quote from: Fluffstar on March 09, 2016, 02:50:48 PM
My nano bead mould is in two halves... says something about my luck with it!!
Thanks, I'm glad the mould is still in one piece then :) I think I'm going to use my glass rice crispies to decorate a coaster and slump it into a dish and see what that comes out like... who knows... it could be a new thing where I deliberately make many new rice crispies :)
Mars xx
TBH I don't know. I recall other threads which had difficulty with these moulds. I think I'd try 5 degrees higher and a longer soak, but it's a total guess, or maybe the same temp and a longer soak. Can you peek into your kiln to see what's happening? You're fighting surface tension, which will change 2 rough bits of glass on top of each other into a nice roundy blob, vs getting something to take the form of the mould. How tightly you pack the frit in must have something to do with it as well (thinking of the behaviour of pate de verre).
I love the sound of your purple rice crispies! You really should enter those for the Turner prize. :)
I think you'd find fine frit easier to work with. It compacts down better so the heat has less work to do. With medium frit you're moving away from Pate de verre and towards kiln casting, which is tricky on such a small scale - though I'm sure perfectly possible if you're prepared to spend time finding the right combination of heat and holding time.
You can mix medium and fine. The fine will fill in the gaps between the medium lumps. Tamp it down well.