And if yes then HOW??? ???
hi,
i am on a hothead, reduction should be easy as we are working with a slightly reducing flame,
i find it hit and miss!
if you make a tin foil collar and use this to cover the holes at the base of your hothead this will give you a reducing flame,
or you could put the bead in the bit of the flame you aren`t supposed to..near the base. ::)
i have read if you over reduce you get creamy colours, can you reverse this ?
sandy
i did try to put glass very low in flame...but can't see a big difference with other beads....
You can correct over-reduction, by putting it back in a neutral flame and starting again.
I tried the foil collar thing and didn't really get on with it - i ended up using an old tea towel folded into a long skinny shape, and just held it over the holes. You can control it by loosening or tightening your grip - works a treat, just don't set fire to the ends!
It is very easy to reduce on a hothead but don't over do it or you'll burn your glass which is different to reducing it. As said - either cover the holes at the base of the hothead or position your glass near the bottom of the flame. But with reducing try and "waft" the bead through the flame - dont' hold it in one position for too long or you will burn the glass. Also - you might want to turn the flame down a little as well in order to prevent burning.
Yes, over reduction will send the work a creamier colour and if you go too far you'll simply burn the surface of the glass. You won't be able to reverse the burn but you will be able to reverse a light reduction by holding the glass out at the very tip of the flame.
Try rubino oro or iris gold rods for reduction practice.
thank you very much for the help
I will try it today and report the result :)
well it's look like i burn my glass... really the problem is I can't see any changes in the glass when it is hot. Or I am not suppose to see it??? and all will be visible later?
Whenever I try it just goes mirrored
Quote from: dangerousbead on July 09, 2008, 10:14:45 PM
Whenever I try it just goes mirrored
well, for many glasses that IS reduction - what are you using?
Um mainly effetre and Sam's frits, silver ones and funky ones
Maybe a silly question, but what exactly is reduction and what effect does it have on the overall effect?
Thanks x
Reduction is a process where the glass is heated in an low oxygen environment. You need oxygen in a flame to keep the glass colour true as the glass's colour is there because different metal oxides are added to the glass. If you remove the oxide from a glass you will reveal the metal that is in the metal oxide. So your brightly coloured glass will go a sludgy colour or if the metal is hard to oxidise you will see a metallic lustre or even a mirror finish.
Rubino oro (the cranberry pink glass) has a lot of gold in it. It's a bit more complex than this but simply Gold does not combine with oxygen very easily so the rubino will lose its colour readily if there isn't enough ready oxygen available in the torch flame. Rubino is very easy to reduce.
That mirror finish is the metal which is on the surface of the glass deprived of it's oxygen.
Some glass like turquoise will go brown red - that's copper.
Some glass like some of the Double Helix glass is very heavy in silver. When you reduce that the silver sort of becomes more reactive and you get silver crystal growth. This can lead to some beautiful soft colourations on the surface of the glass. Other DoubleHelix glass requires a lot of oxygen in stead of reduction - these are called striking glasses.
If you have frit with the prefix "Iris" - iris gold, iris orange, iris blue for example - the frit will reduce very easily.
Some glass does absolutely nothing when reduced or oxidised - like Effetre white.
You have to know what you're trying to achieve through reduction. Usually you will get a metallic lustre but if you were using Psyche, for example you will get very intense blues greens and even pinks.
The hothead will reduce a glass very easily because there isn't much oxygen in the hothead flame to begin with. Strong reduction occurs at the base of the flame and dies away at the top where the oxygen mix is richer. You can make reduction even easier on a hothead by covering up the holes at the base of the torch - thus preventing any oxygen reaching the glass.
A dual gas torch - like a minor burner is a lot more controllable when you are reducing or striking (oxidising) glass because you have a separate control over the oxygen. With the hothead your oxygen is fixed and is largely dependent on your position in the flame.
thanks for that Sal,
has made things clearer for me, i dont have a lot of luck getting the beautiful colours even with the "easy ones" ie psyche,
maybe thats the big draw back of being self educated, through books, forum etc rather than having a lesson with a lampworker with a wealth of knowledge,
sandy x
THANK YOU SAL. I have been wondering what reduction was and was too shy to ask as everybody seemed to know what it was. ;D
U r ACE and have explained it very well; Thank you!!
Roy :)
Because a hothead has a slightly reducing flame anyway, I used to think it was very easy to over-reduce the silver glasses. It could be with "easy" reducing glasses like Psyche that you're actually over-reducing?? It always seemed that way to me in any case. Maybe try just using small dots and encasing fairly quickly without reducing too much, just a little bit?
I know since I've had a "proper" torch I've learnt a lot more patience with these glasses and discovered that they are much easier to burn than I'd thought, that they like to be cooled then reheated to let the silver crystals grow, and that actually, most of them take very little reduction (compared to the amount I was giving them!) to get the colours.
Make the bead in the top part of the hothead flame, dot on some silver-rich glass, gently melt in at the top part, cool and then reintroduce, rolling gently, for a short time at the base of the flame - or cover the holes and reintroduce, but check frequently.
Redhotsal Thank you very much did i understand right you name is Sal?
May I have your promition to translate you unswer for russian art glass forum?
I don't mind at all. Actually there's no harm in being self educated - that's how I started - but it certainly helps to have a lesson or even just watch another lampworker in action. You pick up loads of small tips and tricks.
The internet - forums like this, wetcanvas and lampworketc are also fantastic resources for learning. I've learned a ton of stuff from other people who have very generously shared their knowledge on t'internet.
Don't be shy to ask - for every person who thinks they're daft for asking there'll be a dozen more lurking and wondering about the same thing. This is a forum that's pretty "newbie" (hate that word!) friendly. Anyway - reduction makes a nice change to the usual "how do I light my hothead" question"
Pysche is pretty easy - even on a hothead. But the problem with the easy reducers is that they also burn easily. And as said before some reducing glass will just go a mirror finish whilst others, especially the silver loaded glasses will yield lots of colours.
If you're having trouble here's a couple of things to try: Usually when we start reducing we really over-egg the process. You may actually be trying too hard. When you reduce don't hold the glass in the flame constantly - "waft" it in and out (imagine you are wafting your hand through a candle!). If you hold the glass in the same position for too long you'll go through the reduction phase and be into the burning phase before you know it.
With Pysche - you're looking for an oil-slick like lustre - you'll see that you have a dark rainbow on the surface of your glass when it starts to reduce. The more you waft the more intense this will get and then you'll see it go a milky blue green colour. If you lightly reduce Pysche you'll get blues and pinks and if you really go for it you'll get creamy greens. If you over do it you'll get greys!
You can also try lightly reducing Pysche and then holding it in the very top of the flame to "undo" the reduction and then reducing it again. This cyclical process will encourage silver crystal growth in different ways and you'll probably get other results. With Psyche and a lot of the "designer" glasses - Double Helix, Northstar etc the colours are largely dependent on the speed and type of silver crystal growth.
Yes, that's good advice from GarishGlobes and Kat - yes, no problem I don't mind.
Edited to say: Kat - yes my name is Sal, Sally in fact and also I wonder how you translate "Waft" into Russian? LOL!
Nice to meet you Sally
Thank you for your help, I found definition for the
Waft is a term meaning to carry along gently as through the air. The term is commonly used to describe scents that have diffused in to other parts of a room, or to describe smoke as being seen moving through the air.
Lol so I will do my best and may be will understand it better my self, after all...
We had a joke at school about one teacher.
He sad This kids are so stupid I explain this math rules 3 times, I already understand it myself but they still couldn't
SO I am going to be this teacher and explain to other people things I couldn't understand my self lol
Top tips there from Sal _ i had big problems with Pysche for a while - sometimes you do try to hard and get fed up. my advise to is to stop and leave it for a day before going back to it!!
Another good tip - once you have your reaction - encase it, it looks fab! Look at this beauty currently on Sal's page
http://www.lampworkbeads.co.uk/images/redhotsal_spec14_large.htm
Even now I have good days and bad with the stuff!!
Try Triton - it's a newer one and the easiest of all to react!
I just got a trial batch of DH from Martin which had a rod each of Triton, Psyche, Khaos, Elektra, Gaia, Aion and one which wasn't labelled. I had a go of each mostly over white then encased. I got a brilliant metallic bead from the triton and gorgeous creams & greens from the Gaia then lots of greys. I think my main mistake was to hold the bead in the flame too long but I'm not sure what I'm looking for to be able to see the process starting so I don't overcook (same problem with my food cooking too).
Great to have FH back ;D
Quote from: beadammed on July 20, 2008, 09:41:02 AM
I think my main mistake was to hold the bead in the flame too long but I'm not sure what I'm looking for to be able to see the process starting so I don't overcook
Better take the bead out of the flame regularly and look at it while it cools a little. Then you can see, if the reaction started. And I think it is easier to get good results this way (short wafts of the cool bead in the reducing flame, take it our, wait a little bit, then some more wafts) than one long cooking.
the gaia is lovely - I made some really plain green beads and put a little giai over the top and swired it in - and it has a lovley cloudy / irredescent(can't spell that) effect
(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/shine-on2/Beads/pretties7708008.jpg)
very simple - but I love them. It doesn't show brilliantly on here, but you get a little feel of what I mean!
Looks like the oily sheen on a soap bubble - lovely!
shine-on2 What I was tolking about!!!! lol Great beds.
I get my trial batch of DH from Martin too. Going to try it today....
DONE IT!!!!! love it :)
(http://keep4u.ru/imgs/b/080720/01/01d5f269095276357d.jpg)
woah! thats a stonking reaction!
Get you!
Bookmarking for ron.
This has been just what i was looking for!
I was told how to reduce but forgot most of it within 10 minutes and was a bit worried i would get it all wrong.
Thanks for the info. ;)
Sort of a new question, you say encase the reduced stuff and it looks brilliant. If you put a dot of clear over the top, can you reduce the bits outside of the dot more, add another dot, reduce again and get a series of circles with different layers of reduction, or would this look rubbish?
our claire, ( rowanberry), had a fab set where a trail of clear was added before reduction so that stopped the glass under the clear from changing, cant remember the name black mirror???
great train of thought, you should do some experiments,
off to check your gallery claire!
sandy
blackmirrorspiral1 and blackmirrorspiral2
google either of those and it will bring up one of my fave beads! claires beads,
sandy
funny how i call my kids by the wrong name but can remember a bead sets name from a few months ago!?!
gorgeous
should i get out more?? ::)
This thread has helped me a lot! ;D
Wasn''t sure what reduction was. Tried to make a bead in a reduction flame, but I take it the bead is made first then turn torch to reduction flame and finish the process? It takes a while to sink in with me! :)
Quote from: flowerjasper on July 21, 2008, 11:27:36 PM
blackmirrorspiral1 and blackmirrorspiral2
google either of those and it will bring up one of my fave beads! claires beads,
sandy
funny how i call my kids by the wrong name but can remember a bead sets name from a few months ago!?!
I take it you mean these
http://flickr.com/photos/rowanberryglassart/sets/72157604011899365/
Quote from: Im a glassy babe on July 21, 2008, 11:44:24 PM
This thread has helped me a lot! ;D
Wasn''t sure what reduction was. Tried to make a bead in a reduction flame, but I take it the bead is made first then turn torch to reduction flame and finish the process? It takes a while to sink in with me! :)
It's a bit like driving - there's so much to take in at first, but before you know it you're there!
Quote from: Magpie on July 21, 2008, 11:09:13 PM
Sort of a new question, you say encase the reduced stuff and it looks brilliant. If you put a dot of clear over the top, can you reduce the bits outside of the dot more, add another dot, reduce again and get a series of circles with different layers of reduction, or would this look rubbish?
yes - anything that's outside the encased bit will carry on reacting - have a play and see.
Now there was a thred that mentioned about differenet effects you can get - must have a look for it!
Here it is - it's under tutorials - and is fab!
http://www.frit-happens.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1494.0
;D shine-on2 Thank you for the link I was looking for this info!!! Great help THANKS XXX
That's an old one, before all the striking colours. I maybe need to compile a list of striking vs reduction colours?
Quote from: Mary on July 22, 2008, 01:43:39 PM
That's an old one, before all the striking colours. I maybe need to compile a list of striking vs reduction colours?
Yes please St Mary!
It may be old, Mary, but it's soooo useful - I come back to it all the time to find out why it didn't work for me... I'm sure I'd find an updated one just as useful. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge!!
Quote from: Mary on July 22, 2008, 01:43:39 PM
That's an old one, before all the striking colours. I maybe need to compile a list of striking vs reduction colours?
I don't think anyone would say no to an offer like that!! ;D
Lol, looks like I'd better get busy! Glad that has been some help to people.