Frit-Happens !

Lampwork => Lampworking Tip n Tricks => Topic started by: TiaraHelen on June 16, 2008, 09:20:00 PM

Title: Does adding silver wire make beads more likely to crack?
Post by: TiaraHelen on June 16, 2008, 09:20:00 PM
I love love love silver wire on beads, and have been winding/stroking/dotting it on all over the place recently and have had a lot of beads crack.  It suddenly occured to me these two things could be related? 

I don't have a kiln and have been cooling in vermiculite with very few mishaps, but suddenly all my nice bigger beads are cracking when I clean them.  Has anyone else had this trouble?
Title: Re: Does adding silver wire make beads more likely to crack?
Post by: Shirley on June 16, 2008, 10:10:06 PM
It could well be the silver to blame. Make sure you keep it on the surface, not encased or submerged and you should be ok, I think.
Title: Re: Does adding silver wire make beads more likely to crack?
Post by: Im a glassy babe on June 16, 2008, 10:30:08 PM
Hi,

New to forum, so hello.

Going to be a pain because rather than answer your question, have a related one for you.  The silver that you use on your designs, is it ordinary sterling silver jewellery wire?

I'm quite fascinated with these appearances, but haven't attemped any yet, as wasn't sure of the correct wire to use.

Thanks

Vicki
Title: Re: Does adding silver wire make beads more likely to crack?
Post by: Kaz on June 16, 2008, 10:32:59 PM
No you have to buy pure silver wire rather than sterling - do a search on ebay and you should find some - you can use the finer guage - say 28 or 26 and it will be OK.
Kaz
Title: Re: Does adding silver wire make beads more likely to crack?
Post by: Mary on June 16, 2008, 10:47:26 PM
I think any inclusion stresses glass, so I'd say that is your reason. Maybe try less in one bead? Or finer gauge?
Title: Re: Does adding silver wire make beads more likely to crack?
Post by: Im a glassy babe on June 16, 2008, 10:59:02 PM
Thanks Kaz, will have a look

Vicki x
Title: Re: Does adding silver wire make beads more likely to crack?
Post by: MangoBeads on June 17, 2008, 07:15:14 AM
..... if encasing I now only use Precision Diamond 104 with any silver as i had alotof cracking - this wont help if its surface glass tho' :-\
Title: Re: Does adding silver wire make beads more likely to crack?
Post by: TiaraHelen on June 17, 2008, 08:03:26 AM
Thank you all, this is very helpful.

It is .4mm fine silver, and I have had the problem using it as surface decs and as inclusions. 

I'm going to try rolling the glass in silver "frit" rather than winding it on, maybe that will create less shock, and maybe not quite so enthusiastic with the amount.  And definitely not on beads I've already spent ages on colouring and shaping!  Next time I order something silver I'll try .3 as well.
Title: Re: Does adding silver wire make beads more likely to crack?
Post by: Pat from Canvey on June 17, 2008, 09:17:43 AM
It may be that you're making slightly larger beads when using silver. The larger the bead, the more likely it is to crack when using vermiculite. You do mention "nice bigger beads". Try a few bits of silver on a small bead and see if that cracks when cleaning. You may also be letting the bead cool down too much before putting it in the vermiculite. This results in a bead splitting nearly in half.
Title: Re: Does adding silver wire make beads more likely to crack?
Post by: Diane on June 17, 2008, 09:46:36 AM
Quote from: Pat from Canvey on June 17, 2008, 09:17:43 AM
It may be that you're making slightly larger beads when using silver. The larger the bead, the more likely it is to crack when using vermiculite. You do mention "nice bigger beads". Try a few bits of silver on a small bead and see if that cracks when cleaning. You may also be letting the bead cool down too much before putting it in the vermiculite. This results in a bead splitting nearly in half.

Exactly what Pat and the other ladies have said.  Using vermiculite is Ok for smaller beads but I think when you start making larger beads you need to put them into your kiln.  I have never used vermiculite but have been using quite a bit of 99.9 silver wire on beads lately and not had them (fingers crossed) crack and some of them have been BIG.  I use the finest gauge pure silver wire that Palmers Metals sell (think its 0.3mm)
it's the top one on this link page
http://www.palmermetals.co.uk/Wire/SilverWire/FineSilverWire/default.aspx (http://www.palmermetals.co.uk/Wire/SilverWire/FineSilverWire/default.aspx)

Diane x
Title: Re: Does adding silver wire make beads more likely to crack?
Post by: Pat from Canvey on June 17, 2008, 11:20:46 AM
Oh a laydee am I. I look more like Matt Lucas than David Walliams though.
Title: Re: Does adding silver wire make beads more likely to crack?
Post by: TiaraHelen on June 17, 2008, 12:37:38 PM
I'll just put them straight in the kiln-I-haven't-got-the money-or-room-for then!

Seriously, I think you're onto something with the size as well.  They are bigger than I have made before and I have also been flattenign them, which must create extra stress too.  They have been going straight into the (cold) vermiculite but then cracking right down the middle.  I am going to invest in the cheapest slow cooker I can find because I definitely can't have a kiln (sob) until I've earned it, I guess that might improve their chances.

I have had a few small beads crack too, but fewer than the bigger ones.
Title: Re: Does adding silver wire make beads more likely to crack?
Post by: beadmonkey on June 17, 2008, 12:57:22 PM
Cheap slow cooker available in ASDA - £9.98
:)
Title: Re: Does adding silver wire make beads more likely to crack?
Post by: TiaraHelen on June 17, 2008, 01:01:46 PM
Good tip, thanks.
Title: Re: Does adding silver wire make beads more likely to crack?
Post by: Kaz on June 17, 2008, 01:05:01 PM
I do make large beads using vermiculite in a slow cooker (set on low) as I much prefer to batch anneal. I have only had a few crack and that's usually when Lauscha clear decides it doesn't want to be compatible with something underneath!
Kaz
Title: Re: Does adding silver wire make beads more likely to crack?
Post by: Diane on June 17, 2008, 01:49:44 PM
QuoteI'll just put them straight in the kiln-I-haven't-got-the money-or-room-for then!


Sorry Helen - didn't mean to sound facetious (that's a big word for me) I obviously didn't read your post properly -too carried away by what I meant to say. I have heard that the warm vermiculite system works better though !  Good luck
Diane x
Title: Re: Does adding silver wire make beads more likely to crack?
Post by: TiaraHelen on June 17, 2008, 02:40:10 PM
Diane - did I sound bitter about my kiln-less-ness???? :) :) :)

I'm sorry if I did, because I didn't think you sounded facetious atall, I was just being my usual dry humoured self.  Must remember people can't see me smiling when I write this stuff...

Truth is, I'm finding all the info I'm getting from FHF so incredibly helpful I'd hate to put anyone off by seeming like I was taking offence or giving it.  I'm also lucky enough to have a friend along the road with a kiln who is prepared to batch anneal my beads, which really is the best of both worlds.  I'm off to ASDA now to get a nice little slow cooker (thank you Kaz, BeadMonkey & Pat) for my vermiculite and I'll let you know what happens.

Title: Re: Does adding silver wire make beads more likely to crack?
Post by: Kaz on June 23, 2008, 08:01:57 AM
Pure silver wire available at Howaco (remembered where I got my last lot from) and much cheaper than here - if you keep below the customs threshold.
http://www.howacoglasssupplycompany.com/metal_wire.html
(I checked similar on ebay £1.50 for 3 feet and this is $1.80 for 6 feet)
Kaz
Title: Re: Does adding silver wire make beads more likely to crack?
Post by: Diane on June 23, 2008, 08:47:25 AM
That's a lot cheaper than I've managed to find Kaz - thanks.

Helen -quote]Diane - did I sound bitter about my kiln-less-ness?   

I'm sorry if I did, because I didn't think you sounded facetious atall, I was just being my usual dry humoured self.  Must remember people can't see me smiling when I write this stuff...
[/quote]
Don't worry lass - no offence meant and certainly non taken.  It's a good job my monitor can't speak because it would tell me not to be so rude - wouldn't like to tell you the names I've called it. By the way,  I tried my small slow cooker from Asda that I'm going to use for a pickle pot to anneal a few beads last week and had limited success. The plainer beads were fine but because I do a lot of twisting and twirling on my bigger beads they cracked. So I have learned that I can do my accent beads in the vermiculite but not my large focals. Now if I feel like beading for an hour - instead of just pulling stringers I can do a few beads and anneal later.

Diane x
Title: Re: Does adding silver wire make beads more likely to crack?
Post by: Kaz on June 23, 2008, 09:35:48 AM
Don't look at the other stuff though - like the Effetre colours we don't get.....or the bundles of stringers......or the silver foil......or the tools!!!
Diane - if you do decide to do a larger order, let me know as I would add some stuff and we can share shipping/customs costs!
Kaz
Title: Re: Does adding silver wire make beads more likely to crack?
Post by: Fired Silver on June 23, 2008, 09:50:07 AM
Quote from: Kaz on June 23, 2008, 08:01:57 AM
Pure silver wire available at Howaco (remembered where I got my last lot from) and much cheaper than here - if you keep below the customs threshold.
http://www.howacoglasssupplycompany.com/metal_wire.html
(I checked similar on ebay £1.50 for 3 feet and this is $1.80 for 6 feet)
Kaz

Kaz, have you tried wires.co.uk, that's where I buy my wire from and I seem to think they were pretty cheap for fine silver wire.

Rebecca
Title: Re: Does adding silver wire make beads more likely to crack?
Post by: Kaz on June 23, 2008, 10:19:45 AM
Thanks Rebecca - Howacos is actually cheaper for the same item plus you can order other glassy stuff from there so it makes sense!#
Some interesting stuff on the wires website though...........
Kaz
Title: Re: Does adding silver wire make beads more likely to crack?
Post by: Fired Silver on June 23, 2008, 10:23:13 AM
I wasn't sure how it compared - I'm not very good with my feet to metres conversion!!! Plus if you can order glassy goodies then even better!!

Rebecca
Title: Re: Does adding silver wire make beads more likely to crack?
Post by: DragonflyLynne on June 23, 2008, 11:58:26 AM
After chatting with Kaz this morning, I have ordered some .3 mm fine silver wire this morning, and it will be up on my site next week. I'm going to package it in 10 feet lengths but if you have any other preferences please let me know.  ;D