Finally Switched to Bulk Propane But... running without Oxygen... I knew the flame was going to be dirty but J'sus C'rist, everything is coming out gunmetal grey?? :'(
I have a 4 bar industrial regulator running with the normal hot head torch.
In addition I have tried various setting with the reg & torch but still the same.
Can anyone stear me in the right direction as I don't want to plug into oxygen at the mo due to the expense/more outlay which I can do without at the mo...just want to have fun but don't want to waste good glass rods. :(
Thanks in advance,
Lou
You're just running too hot too fast. As frustrating as it is you have to work with the flame a little smaller and/ or work a little higher in the flame. Going from Mapp to propane will take a little getting used to as Mapp burns hotter than propane so things will appear a little slower until you get used to it.
What Sal says......and just a thought.....have you checked your burner? At little speck of something like a bit of glass in it can have the same effect. I had this at about the same time that I put a new tank of gas on and thought it was the gas and spent ages fiddling about with the regulator and then found a bit of glass and some bead release in the burner. A good clean solved the problem.
with what do you clean it?
Ruth
Quote from: ruth on June 02, 2012, 09:03:46 AM
with what do you clean it?
Ruth
dear Henry .. dear Henry .. (I'll get me coat)! ;D
I'm sorry - I thought exactly the same...I'll get me coat too....
Usually with hotheads you can turn them upsidedown and give them a good shake. If you have any compressed air that's also good to blow through it. A long dead spider once fell out of mine which had been giving me a lot of bother.
I'm sure you'd given him even more bother ;D :D ;)
Quote from: Redhotsal on June 02, 2012, 11:22:55 AM
A long dead spider once fell out of mine which had been giving me a lot of bother.
Great advice :)
It certainly is taking a bit of getting used to - but I will persevere. Off to have another go but will check the torch too & make sure its clean, and work a bit cooler.
Thanks again everyone
I used my hothead with bulk propane for nearly 2 years.
I lit my torch and then turned it down so the flame nearly went out, then just turned it up a little. I then worked at this setting. I also found that I needed to work 2" or more from the nozzle tip to keep things clean
I was on bulk for 3 years before my new torch; couple of things spring to mind. Firstly, are you turning the regulator all the way on, then 1/4 turn back? Secondly, I had the most filthy dirty beads when my gas bottle was nearly empty....
What do you clean it with? My Nortel Minor burner came with a 2 inch long, thin piece of metal, aptly named 'cleaning tool' that was attached to a handle. Used on a cool burner head, you use it to poke inside the gas tubes.
I recently had problems with my bulk propane HH not getting hot enough so I took the whole head apart (it all unscrews in sections), gave it a good brush out, vacuumed were possible and reassembled it. It was much better! :D
I am just looking to go onto bulk, no I'm a little concerned?? Does the torch make a difference? If I changed my HH to a better one would thins make any difference or is it just the fact your using bulk and no oxygen. On a tangent subject, I have read you can use bottle oxygen or a concentrator!! Anyone use this? Thanks in advance for any replies Rob
I work on a hothead on bulk as do lots of others without too many problems.
As has been said you just need to get used to what size the flame needs to be and where to work in it.
Also as its a slightly reducing flame this affects some colours - I struggle with turquoise as it reduces to a coppery brown if I'm not really careful with it.
Also agree that everything get a bit mucky when the gas gets low but I then resort to pulling stringers till I can get a new bottle.
Quote from: Weston_glass_man on November 22, 2012, 11:51:14 AM
I am just looking to go onto bulk, no I'm a little concerned?? Does the torch make a difference? If I changed my HH to a better one would thins make any difference or is it just the fact your using bulk and no oxygen. On a tangent subject, I have read you can use bottle oxygen or a concentrator!! Anyone use this? Thanks in advance for any replies Rob
You do have to get used to going onto bulk from a Mapp cylinder - it takes a couple of hours to get used to the idea and you do have to work a little slower and cooler but most folk will probably say the advantages of cheaper propane which doesn't drop in pressure far outweighs the disadvantages of slower working. It's slow either way you look at it when you are working with a HH.
Yes, it is down to the fact that there's no oxygen. You need the oxygen to maintain the true colours of the glass and to prevent the glass from reducing (going murky brown and grey).
There's no point trying to attach oxygen to a HH - it's a single gas torch which was designed to run on Mapp but will run on propane. Certeinly NOT oxygen.
Many people start off on a HH and progress to a dual gas torch - like a Minor Burner, or a Bobcat, for example. These are DUAL GAS torches which were designed to run on propane and oxygen. The gases are mixed on the torch head surface (they are usually referred to as surface mix torches). Because of this they are usually very quiet to run and will burn at a much higher temperature than the HH. It is certainly possible to reduce your glass using these torches but because you have much more control to the gas mix you can dictate the type of flame that you want to use.
Hi Redhotsal,
Thank you for this. If I was looking to go with oxygen over the next six months or so. Where would you go to start looking at kit? If you don't mind me asking.
T
sorry hit wrong key lol
supposed to say,
Thank you in advance for your help :)
For advice on kit etc, best folks to talk to are Tufnells, http://tuffnellglass.com/index.html or Off Mandrel http://off-mandrel.com/
Both are brilliant and really really helpful, they can give you all the advice on kit, torches etc. For kilns lots of us use Kiln Care http://www.kilncare.co.uk/ (you can get kilns from Tuffnells and Off Mandrel too) and like the others Lee at Kiln Care is fabulous. :) Hope that helps. :)
Hey thanks Lotti :)
Rob, I am not sure if it is because I am new or what but I went from having a couple of hours tuition on a duel fuel torch then to 1 cylinder of MAPP gas on my HH at home and then on to bulk and have had no problems at all. As I say it may be because I am new and cautious and hadn't really worked on anything else but I have not had any problems with sludgy colours or anything. I am sure it takes a bit more getting used to if you have spent time on a different type of fuel/torch though.
I think if you follow the others advice you wouldn't have a problem going onto bulk. It is definitely a lot more cost effective for me. Also I must add that I bought my bulk kit from Tuffnell Glass and Martin set the regulator before he gave it to me and i haven't touched it so not sure if that helped :)
MamaQuilla - Hope you have got things sorted x
MamaQuilla - thanks for that. I bought my original kit from Emma at Tuffnell. I am on my second mapp cyclinder so very new. Thanks again :)
HI,
I started on Mapp on a HH, then switched to Bulk. Later when I had more cash I switched to a dual fuel torch with oxycon - all purchased from tuffnels. I still go back to the HH on bulk sometimes just to remind myself that speed is not everything (and cause some effects/techniques I just can't get right on the dual fuel yet)...
JMKnox
Yes, what Lotti said regarding suppliers. You can probably also benefit from going to the Flame Off as you can then have a go with a dual gas torch and it really is invaluable talking to and watching others at work - you can learn so much just by watching someone else.
Also - keep an eye out on here - there have been (sadly) quite a few people having to sell up equipment lately, so there's often a good chance of a bargain.
Just one thing to remember with HHs - they don't have a supply of oxygen, but air is sucked in through a venturi system on the lower part of the torch head (where the holes are). This extra mix of air provides a little useable oxygen to the fuel mix but it is quite limited. The gases (propane and air) are more efficiently mixed towards the top of the flame, so if you are getting sludgy colours you may well need to work higher in the flame. Don't work inside the blue cone of the HH as this is a very propane (or Mapp) rich area of the flame. Great for reducing glasses - like Double Helix - but rubbish for normal working. If you are right at the top of the flame and are still getting sludgy colours then you will need to turn the flame down a little.
Thanks Sally, yes I am going to Flame Off, looking forward to it. Thanks everyone, all comments are and have been appreciated :)
Look forward to seeing you at flameoff as well.
JMKnox
HI,
wish i had read this earlier, been having the same problem all day!! RESOLVED!!!! :) I gave the inside and outside a really light sanding with P600 wet and dry and it worked a treat, burning like a dream.....I think ive just fallen in love with it for a second time and not a filthy streak in sight...!!! :P