Frit-Happens !

Lampwork => Lampworking Tip n Tricks => Topic started by: Barnacle Bay on May 11, 2012, 06:40:37 PM

Title: Pitting From Cooling Bubbles
Post by: Barnacle Bay on May 11, 2012, 06:40:37 PM
Hi,
Made a couple of beads earlier (1st attempt) first went puff as I brought it out of the bubbles too quick for a sneaky peak oops thermal shock syndrome  :D

The 2nd attempt was pretty good I thought, though I noticed that the cooling buubles had made pitting indentations on the surface. 
Now I'm wondering was that  due to be putting the bead in them too quickly   :-\

Cannot show a photo due to after trying to release bead from the mandrel it split in  half length ways along mandrel length (reading on another thread about those causes).

Apart from that - I'm hooked having another go in a mo, but any suggestions/advice are warmly received.  I think I may have to go on a course though  :)

Thanks in advance,

Louise
Title: Re: Pitting From Cooling Bubbles
Post by: sparrow on May 11, 2012, 06:44:34 PM
Hi Louise,

yes, I think you answered your own question, it sounds like the bead was still too hot when you put it away - it can help holding it somewhere dark (like under your desk or workbench) to check that it isn't glowing anymore before you put it away :)
Title: Re: Pitting From Cooling Bubbles
Post by: Barnacle Bay on May 11, 2012, 06:56:35 PM
Thanks for that Sparrow - by th way, I love your work/creations simply stunning butterflys.

I'm thinking that it may have also split possibly due to me being a bit too mean on the bead release - I spread it out along the mandrel rather than leaving it thicker, and the bead just would not let go.  Never mind off to have another go  :)
Title: Re: Pitting From Cooling Bubbles
Post by: BeeBeads on May 11, 2012, 07:09:53 PM
Hi Louise,
I always leave my beads in the vermiculite until the next day after I've finished torching.  I know you can probably safely remove them after a few hours but I've just got into the habit of leaving them overnight and, apart from it being something to look forward to the next day, I have very few breakages.  I've never used the bubbles, have always used vermiculite (a lot cheaper!) in a large deep bowl and it seems to work for me.
Do you think you could be taking them out too soon to have a look and/or remove them from the mandrels?
Sounds like you're having loadsa fun though!  ;D
Title: Re: Pitting From Cooling Bubbles
Post by: Barnacle Bay on May 11, 2012, 07:24:03 PM
Hi Bee,

Yes I think I'm being far too eager to peak.  To be honest I wished I had bought just the vermiculite now  ::),  though will have to stick with the bubbles.  I have them heating up nicely in my slow cooker and will deffintely leave the beads in it  over night - no peaking promise  ;D
Title: Re: Pitting From Cooling Bubbles
Post by: BeeBeads on May 11, 2012, 07:26:18 PM
  ;D :D ;D
Title: Re: Pitting From Cooling Bubbles
Post by: Barnacle Bay on May 11, 2012, 07:41:49 PM
I know a few things I wish i had right now:

Frit & Stringers

Kiln

A brain

;D
Title: Re: Pitting From Cooling Bubbles
Post by: flowerjasper on May 11, 2012, 07:50:59 PM
Hi,
glad you are having fun  ;)
I changed from vermiculite to bubbles and wouldnt change back, I get the pitting now and again its often on white glass, its just because they went in too hot,
If the bead has split dead in half then peaking is the cause  ;)
hope you have some pictures for us soon
sandy
Title: Re: Pitting From Cooling Bubbles
Post by: SRJ on May 11, 2012, 08:04:13 PM
Hi Louise
I have masses of vermiculite if you'd like some..... it comes in such HUGE bags (compared to how much you need)  If I'm not cooking my beads straight away I cool them in a slow cooker with the stuff.  Anyway - if you'd like some, I'll take some to work with me. You can pick it up some time if you're passing.  (Clear a bit of stuff from my back porch)

Sue x
Title: Re: Pitting From Cooling Bubbles
Post by: Barnacle Bay on May 11, 2012, 08:10:28 PM
Hi Sandy - what it the meaning of the term you use 'peaking' ?

SRJ - that would be excellent - I will pay you of course, will pop in Monday if thats ok with you  ;D

Off I go now to melt something!
Title: Re: Pitting From Cooling Bubbles
Post by: Purple Cobwebs on May 11, 2012, 08:30:01 PM
Have sent you a pm. xxx
Title: Re: Pitting From Cooling Bubbles
Post by: Lush! on May 11, 2012, 08:37:06 PM
Quote from: MamaQuilla on May 11, 2012, 08:10:28 PM
Hi Sandy - what it the meaning of the term you use 'peaking' ?


I think she meant "peeking"!  :D :D

Do watch that thin bead release, I had an absolute disaster with a batch of student beads this week because my bead release was too thin  :(
Title: Re: Pitting From Cooling Bubbles
Post by: flowerjasper on May 11, 2012, 08:56:16 PM
Quote from: MamaQuilla on May 11, 2012, 08:10:28 PM
Hi Sandy - what it the meaning of the term you use 'peaking' ?

SRJ - that would be excellent - I will pay you of course, will pop in Monday if thats ok with you  ;D

Off I go now to melt something!
think its my essex accent  and bad spelling  :D  sneeky ( sneaky?) peeking before the beads are cool enough  ;D
Title: Re: Pitting From Cooling Bubbles
Post by: Lush! on May 11, 2012, 09:02:20 PM
d'ya mean beeeeeeds, Sandy?   ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Pitting From Cooling Bubbles
Post by: SRJ on May 11, 2012, 09:04:19 PM
Quote from: MamaQuilla on May 11, 2012, 08:10:28 PM
Hi Sandy - what it the meaning of the term you use 'peaking' ?

SRJ - that would be excellent - I will pay you of course, will pop in Monday if thats ok with you  ;D

Off I go now to melt something!

No need for payment -it's cheap as chips. Will be good to meet you. Try to avoid 12 - 12.30 as i shall probably be at lunch....

Sue
Title: Re: Pitting From Cooling Bubbles
Post by: flowerjasper on May 11, 2012, 09:21:10 PM
Quote from: Lush! on May 11, 2012, 09:02:20 PM
d'ya mean beeeeeeds, Sandy?   ;D ;D ;D
yeeeesss ;D
Title: Re: Pitting From Cooling Bubbles
Post by: Rascal on May 11, 2012, 09:23:48 PM
Hi Louise, I'm also a newbie, not sure how long I can keep using that excuse but until I can get 2 identical same size, same pattern beads I'm sticking with the label of newbie. You mention in your post about trying a course, I can't recommend this enough. I had one day tuition and learned loads, now just need play and practise and lots of it but the tuition does give you a really good grounding. I'm also already thinking once I get the better at the basics I'm going to invest in another lesson to help take it to the next level. Good Luck and hope you keep enjoying it.
Title: Re: Pitting From Cooling Bubbles
Post by: Barnacle Bay on May 11, 2012, 10:08:42 PM
Thanks for that everyone

I have to say feeling a bit sad at the mo... Hot head torch new today... kept cutting out.. and after trying 3 different bottles of Mapp gas from 2 different suppliers..still the same and cutting out.
Spoke to welder friend and had a look at the jet.. all clean..so will have to take it up with supplier on Monday  :'(

Not the torches fault  - Phew!
Not a happy bunny just a sad old Moo like my avatar!
Title: Re: Pitting From Cooling Bubbles
Post by: sarah t on May 11, 2012, 10:50:40 PM
the cutting out is a common problem with the mapp gas ,change to bulk gas a soon as you can it works out hell of a lot cheeper in the long run

might find a few tips here

http://www.frit-happens.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=22989.0
Title: Re: Pitting From Cooling Bubbles
Post by: GaysieMay on May 12, 2012, 06:51:23 AM
Your pitting is definitely from putting beads into your bubbles too soon.  Are you flame annealing at the back of the flame - if not when you are happy with the shape and everything put the bead right at the back of the flame and keep turning it for a minute this way it is cooling at a slower temp, the glass should be solid enough to go in the bubbles without the pitting, but as Sandy said, becareful with white in particular. :)
Title: Re: Pitting From Cooling Bubbles
Post by: Barnacle Bay on May 12, 2012, 11:14:01 AM
Thanks everyone & Sarah T,
I  now know its not the torch, on 4th can of Mapp same problem   >:(  They will all be going back to the suppliers and I'm seriously contemplating switching to bulk, though oxycon is not a temptation due to the cost of buying the unit.
Title: Re: Pitting From Cooling Bubbles
Post by: BeeBeads on May 12, 2012, 11:21:50 AM
Definitely switch over to bulk as soon as you can.  You'll find it much friendlier to work with and all the money you save can be spent on GLASS!   ;D
Title: Re: Pitting From Cooling Bubbles
Post by: Barnacle Bay on May 12, 2012, 12:32:36 PM
Hallelujah - I've seen the light  8) 

Just made one small step - but one giant leap and bought a Gas arc flashback arrestor for £12 squid!  Just need to get the other bits & bobs.

Bulk fuel here I come ;D
Title: Re: Pitting From Cooling Bubbles
Post by: flowerjasper on May 12, 2012, 01:42:56 PM
best decision you wont regret it  ;D
if and when you get a duel fuel torch you can use again.
sandy
Title: Re: Pitting From Cooling Bubbles
Post by: SRJ on May 12, 2012, 11:39:36 PM
Cheapest place for Propane round here is Trago Mills! Refil of 11kg £10 cheaper than anywhere else.....
Title: Re: Pitting From Cooling Bubbles
Post by: katherinem on May 12, 2012, 11:48:38 PM
It probably is the MAPP getting cold - I agree with everyone else, MAPP is too expensive and annoying to use long term.

I don't know if you have the same issue, but when I started I was really scared of letting my beads get cool, but I found that they can take a lot more than I thought. I use the annealing bubbles - they heat up when you put a bead in, and form a sort of insulating jacket which cools slowly. So the key is not to move the bead around in the bubbles once you put it in. I usually find my beads are cold after about an hour, but mine are quite small generally.

hope this helps  :)
Title: Re: Pitting From Cooling Bubbles
Post by: Barnacle Bay on May 14, 2012, 12:05:26 AM
thanks everyone

Cheers SRJ for the heads up on cheap gas - I normally hate trago'sbut hey cheap gas - sounds pretty good to me  ;)
Title: Re: Pitting From Cooling Bubbles
Post by: lampworklover on May 14, 2012, 07:42:07 AM
..and to go back to your original subject, you're just as likely to get pitting from vermiculite as bubbles if your bead isn't cool enough. If you've got bubbles I'd stick with them, the dust from vermiculite isn't particularly nice, and it breaks down over time, unlike the bubbles.
Title: Re: Pitting From Cooling Bubbles
Post by: ScarletLeonard on May 14, 2012, 10:03:31 AM
I was just about to say the same as Tina, in fact it is worse with the vermiculite because it will stick to the bead where as the bubbles will just brush off. Though it is handy to have a layer of vermiculite under the bubbles to stop the beads sinking to the bottom of the tin.

Don't skimp on the bead release. Dip it just enough for the size of bead you are making and if you do need a really long dip and only have a little tub transfer it to a cigar tube or just get a bigger pot :) you will use it.

You will love yourself for bulk fuel. I use a 19kg cylinder and it lasted me about 9 months on the hot head.
Title: Re: Pitting From Cooling Bubbles
Post by: Barnacle Bay on May 14, 2012, 04:21:53 PM
Great info  & a Happy Bunny now  :)
Title: Re: Pitting From Cooling Bubbles
Post by: toodlesandbinks on May 31, 2012, 11:16:22 AM
I'm new to all this but I let mine cool a bit before going in the bubbles ..... no pitting so far - plenty else wrong with them, but no pitting!

As I only got two small pots of bead release I have transferred one of them to a test tube with a screw lid, and I get a better length of dip that way...getting in the test tube was fun.