EDITED YET AGAIN, because the seller has done the dirty on me. Just in case anyone is interested.
Because there are still decent people in this world, all now sorted: see bottom of thread :)
My second hand kiln (SC2B, barely used) has arrived today. The outside was very well packaged, but the seller put the shelves inside, covered with foam packaging, and one of the sharp corners has broken through the packaging and scraped the lining off part of the inside of the kiln in one corner :o :o. I can't see any exposed metalwork or wiring, but I wondered if anyone can advise me whether the kiln should still be used, or if I should do some sort of repair?
All advice gratefully received.
ETA; on closer inspection, there is something exposed; see pic below...
Pic?
when i got my SC2 new, the door molding wasn't a perfect right angle, I queried it but was told it would be fine, just a manufacturing anomaly. That doesn't really help though cos we can't see your damage.
post a pic
Quote from: dangerousbead on April 26, 2012, 03:45:29 PM
Pic?
can do, when I get home; I'm at work and it's in the boot of my car.
Quote from: lampworklover on April 26, 2012, 03:46:44 PM
Quote from: dangerousbead on April 26, 2012, 03:45:29 PM
Pic?
can do, when I get home; I'm at work and it's in the boot of my car.
I'm at work too, erm, shouldn't we be doing something else? : )
Probably ;D. But I have a very understanding Boss ;). (DH)
Providing it isn't a gaping hole then the muffle won't really be too effected by knocks and dents.
The only time to take action is when the element becomes exposed or visible.
Then the action is a replacement muffle.
Quote from: Lee - Kilncare on April 26, 2012, 04:05:43 PM
Providing it isn't a gaping hole then the muffle won't really be too effected by knocks and dents.
The only time to take action is when the element becomes exposed or visible.
Then the action is a replacement muffle.
Thanks Lee. Where is the element in an SC2? The 'gouge' is in one side. DH thinks I should repair it with Pyrolite as a precaution. (and just in case, how much am I looking at for a replacement muffle?).
The element is cast inside the muffle wall. A new muffle for an SC2 is 225.00. By the sound of it, your kiln will be fine to operate as-is.
Sean
Oh I do hope so. Here is a pic:
(http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l45/bearhouse_1968/kiln.jpg); is that the element or part of the construction/ framework?. Whatever it is, there is no damage to it.
(I couldn't even see it exposed before, but it became visible when I dusted the dust away with a soft paintbrush). Have now found a second area which is exposed on the opposite side of the kiln.
What does the seller have to say about it Tina? It's not your fault it arrived damaged.
Quote from: BeeBeads on April 26, 2012, 07:34:43 PM
What does the seller have to say about it Tina? It's not your fault it arrived damaged.
I've sent her a message, waiting to see what she says.
DH did comment that we were lucky it arrived unscathed on the outside, as she basically put it in a box a little bigger than the kiln, with a layer of scrunched newspaper, rather than bubble wrap/ corrugated cardboard. The shelves were in that thin foam packaging, rattling around inside the chamber.
I think she must take some responsibility for the way it arrived. Especially if you have to spend money to repair damage.
It's not as if you bought it as a damaged item. In my opinion, for what it's worth, the way she packaged the shelves inside the chamber was definitely not adequate, as you have found out to your cost and she should be answerable. Did she have insurance of any sort with the carrier?
Quote from: BeeBeads on April 26, 2012, 07:40:54 PM
I think she must take some responsibility for the way it arrived. Especially if you have to spend money to repair damage.
It's not as if you bought it as a damaged item. In my opinion, for what it's worth, the way she packaged the shelves inside the chamber was definitely not adequate, as you have found out to your cost and she should be answerable. Did she have insurance of any sort with the carrier?
I paid for the carrier, as we have an account with work, and no, it's not covered if the packaging was inadequate. :-\. Feel a bit sick now.
That's a bummer. I hope she is understanding then, and realises that these things have to be packaged well and that she didn't do so. Don't get yourself upset Tina, wait and see what the seller has to say. But I would press the point that it was the packaging that caused the damage.
send kiln care lee a pic and ask his advice ,i am sure if he can help he will
That looks like element coils, but yes, you should get Lee to take a look.
Thanks Sean, and all. I'll message him now.
I think (and I am sure Lee will say if this is right or not) you might be able to use kiln cement to patch it up. I got a tin of it when I got a really battered kiln to repair to fill up all the holes in the kiln bricks, warm glass sell it but it's quite hard to mix as the stuff I had felt like it had settled.
However I don't know if you can use it directly on an element, I don't think you are supposed to be I am sure Lee will know
OMG, you poor thing. I haven't got anything useful to add but I'm sending you a big hug.
I to do think the sender should pay for any damages in transport, as it was not described this way when brought xx
Thank you :-*
Have heard back from the seller, and she rather naively thought it wouldn't move around in transit ???. She has offered to pay half as a gesture of goodwill, but unfortunately I don't happen to have the other half, having just shelled out for the kiln :(.
Everything sort of rests on Lee's opinion now.
Just caught up with this. Hope you get it sorted soon. What a bummer, how frustrating. :(
Well, there are still decent people in this world. I have to say the seller has been great throughout this transaction, and was very upset when I told her about the damage. She is now in the process of refunding me the amount that it wil cost to replace the muffle. Absolutely gutted for her still, as she has lost out, and she is so lovely, but at least I will end up with a kiln that I can use.
I'm so glad you've got it sorted Tina. It's a shame that the seller has lost out, but it's a fair outcome. Hope you can get it repaired soon and enjoy using it!
It does seem only fair that she pays the cost of her error, it's unfortunate that it's an expensive lesson for her :( Still, it's been upsetting for you, and I'm sure she realises that you are being extremely easygoing, considering you will now have to wait for new parts before you can use the kiln. Glad it's sorted for you x
What a shame all round :-\ - you are both due for some fantastic good luck now :-*
Quote from: Margram on April 26, 2012, 11:34:10 PM
What a shame all round :-\ - you are both due for some fantastic good luck now :-*
Totally agree, It must have been a stressfull day/night for you both.. Im glad that its all sorted now ;D
Hi mate, got your PM and glad to hear that you are all sorted.
For general information. that is exactly the damge that should result in a new muffle. If you can see the coils then you can touch the coils and if the kiln is on and working, that will result in an electric shock.
However, that kiln will still run O.K. and depending on your process yu may decide that you will never be in the kiln when it is on and so carry on using it.
So the official line is do not use...the unofficial line is apply common sense.
With regards to repairs. Cement and elements is never a good idea and usually results in tears at some point. There are fibre mixes you can get, we use a mastic that is actually semi-liquid ceramic fibre type compound which may have a chance as it could grip to the element but I've not tried it in those circumstances.
Thanks Lee; given that I was planning on poking metals mandrels into the cavity whilst the kiln is on, I'm definitely better off NOT doing so if the element is exposed!
That is a shame that the seller lost out but completely fair that they paid for it.
When I bought my kiln I had a quick flick through the booklet (wouldn't possibly refer to it as a manual as it doesn't actually tell you how to use the kiln ::) ) that came with it and in quiet a few places it was exceptionally explicit/implicit that the manufacturers box needed to be kept and used when ever transporting the kiln.
Maybe this is something we all need to be more aware of when we buy and sell kilns, does it have the original box, if it's something we always ask it might help us all remember how important it is that the box is kept?
(This is one of the many things my neighbour tried to have a fuss about me keeping, we share storage space in the attic. He tells me it's a waste of space, I tell him the 5 inch floppy disks should be in a museum.)
Quote from: Krysia on April 27, 2012, 10:15:33 AM
That is a shame that the seller lost out but completely fair that they paid for it.
yes, when she does do the refund. Then I need to find a new muffle.
Eventually, when this is all over, I will have my old kiln for sale, and funnily enough, I kept the original packaging for just that reason.
If Lee doesn't make them then Robin should be able to help, if not then Sean maybe able to point you in the right direction. My understanding though is that Robin is the paragon rep in the UK, but I could be completely wrong.
Lee doesn't have them, but if Robin is the very helpful man in Corfe Castle, frankly he's a star! Couldn't be more helpful, and told me where to find the 'how to fit it' info, and is putting a little tool in the box to assist.
Well the saga continues. On the strength of the message sent by the seller last night, I have ordered and paid £225 for a new muffle, which will be delivered on Monday.
The seller (or rather her husband),24 hours after offering to pay in full, has now changed her mind, and is only willing to pay half. Despite the fact that they put three kiln shelves inside the muffle, without any extra packaing or padding, to rattle around and wreck it to the point that it needed to be replaced, they say that it's the carrier's fault ??? ??? ???.
I don't feel that I have any choice but to accept their offer, otherwise this could drag on for weeks, and frankly I've done enough crying for one week.
Please people, if yu ever buy a kiln on Ebay, make sure that the seller has the original packaging, or is at least prepared to use bubble wrap and polystyrene to protect your expensive purchase.
Gutted doesn't even begin to cover it. :'( :'( :'(
MODS: feel free to move this to 'narked off' section.
Kay beat me to it.
It's not arrived as described, and that's down to the packing, not the carrier. Take it to paypal.
Exactly what I was going to say - it is down to her, completely and utterly. I think Paypal will uphold this one in your favour, as the goods were delivered damaged and it's for her to sort, not you.
Don't hang about. Complain loudly to ebay/paypal, and get your money back. You've been nice enough about this Tina, don't lose out because it's not your fault this has happened. Rotten so and so's.
What they said! Make sure you keep all the emails xx
Was about to say the same. PP dispute. Goods not as described, the onus is on her to get them to you in a usable condition. Do it straight away. The downside is (from my experience) if she's taken the money from her PP account, they will, if you win, only refund what is in there - they told me they do not recover the balance from a bank account as it is not allowed, nor recover when other funds are in there (they failed to recover £50 of a £70 purchase for me). Also take photos of everything as PP might wish to see these.
Good luck, let us know how you get on.
Take it to paypal and download all the messages as well as the photos as evidence.
Kazx
Thanks for your advice girls :-*. I have opened a dispute. Really sorry that it has come to this, but you're right, I shouldn't have to lose out financially because they didn't pack it properly; and I have nothing to lose really, do I? (other than more sleep ::)). Ebay can now see all the messages that have passed between the seller and me, and I have said I'm happy to provide photographic evidence to support my claim.
I think youve done the right thing Tina, they have treated you veey poorly, its not your fault they didnt pack it properly, you paid money in good faith. I hope you get your money back without too much hassle
I'm sorry to hear this has happened.
Just wanted to say that even the original packaging doesn't guarantee the kiln will arrive ok. I bought an sc2 from someone on frit. It was in its original box with its original packing - but it had been bashed about so much that the insulation had come loose from both the door and the main kiln.
I had some great advice from Sean and it was all ok - but if I wanted another kiln I think I might try and collect it.
Glad you have opened a dispute, my only advice is try not let it get you down. So easy to say as I know it would me but I'm sure PayPal will recover your money back..It must be very frustrating , i am subscribing you chocolate and a big glass of wine, oh and a big hug from all of us x
(Look I'm out of bed just so I can reply to this thread ;) )
I'm glad that you have opened a dispute and got all the pictures and correspondence.
I'm so sorry that it's come to this though. New kilns are meant to be a happy experience and it is oh so disappointing when it's not.
I think the husband might be trying it on a bit, but to be honest I think it's a lost cause. So while you're waiting for it all to get sorted have you got a plan to distract yourself so that you don't spend too much time thinking about it?
Wine and chocolate is in order methinks. ;D
If it was me. I would want a full refund, send the kiln back and cancel the order for the muffle.
If the kiln was bashed around in transit it may of done other internal damage.
What a shame :(