Now, I was sure I'd read somewhere that you don't actually need to wear didys (or I probably should say ACE 202 safety glasses) when using a hothead - and I always thought that was ridiculous, I would say "just wear them, they keep you safe".
But yesterday I was demoing all day, off and on, using a hothead and I could not see the flame, could not tell where to put the glass, simply could not make a bead with my lampwork glasses on. At all. Neither when I tried out the hothead in my studio, nor on my stall at the fair. Yes, I was working outside but it couldn't be called a bright day, we had miserable grey skies and heavy rain all morning and it never really got bright.
See, I do a lot of teaching, and I like to make sure I'm telling my students the right thing, but I want to be sure what I say really is true, "evidence-based practice" and all that. So now I'm feeling like saying "you don't need to spend £60 on a pair of lampwork glasses to use with your hothead, clear safety goggles will do ..." but I'd really like to know about the science bit. So can anybody help please? SALLY???
Oh, George did a bit of googling for me and she came up with this thread on LE http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51873&highlight=hothead+didys Its an old thread but very interesting.
Discuss!! ;D
i have read that they are not needed also but for the sake of safety and Freya i wear them, my garage has no windows so i work with two daylight bulbs and can see the flame just not he orange glow which i think in time would give me a headache anyway if i dident wear them
I remember reading that too. Though I think the one I read was that you needed UV protection but the sodium flare wasn't as important on the HH.
Until I joined here I knew nothing about diddys I thought the glasses were just pretty tinted glasses to protect your eyes from flying glass (and being a glasses wearer thought they will do.)
I can say that when i got into long torching sessions with just my prescription glasses on I felt the strain.
After reading about UV protection I switched to my prescription sunglasses much better.
Now I have diddys because it turned out my problems with seeing what I was doing was because I was short sighted and couldn't see because I had my long range vision 'on' no eye strain unless I am at the torch until silly hours (but that's me getting tired)
I can see the very centre blue cone with my diddys on, I now know where from that point I want to be for different types of work but that's down to getting to know my torch. But TBH that's all I see on a duel fuel too.
Forgot to add - After my experience I would say better to have them and learn with them it was a back peddle to figure out my flame after putting on mine for the first time. But I would certainly say UV protection over no protection at all.
Hmm, you see I can't work on a dual fuel without didys, not even a little bit. The flare is just too bright, but on a hothead the flare is useful to me!
Well being new to all of this, I have been wearing Didys with a HH. I have found that I can't really see what I am doing with the glass from the glare of the orange flame if I take them off and I have sort of learned where the best heat for what glass is, in a very short space of time. I can see the end of the blue spike of flame, which is enough for me to know where in the flame I should be. I thought that was what everyone did! I was quite surprised the first time I took the specs off when at the end of a bead, to see this massive orange flame!! I wouldn't feel comfortable with the glare if I didn't wear them, as I tend to sit there for hours!
The only time I have seen a duel fuel without diddys is when watching demos, though that's very different from sitting behind it.
Beads just glow when I am watching them being made, I know red hot through my diddy's I can see more of the bead rather than it blending into the orange of the flame.
I have a tendency now to not look into the flame for demos and wait until it comes out so I can see what's going on.
I always wear diddy's, but if I'm doing something that needs finer heat control then I just keep peeking over the top of them to make sure I'm still in the right place in the flame, especially useful as I suffer from a wandering hand when I torch ::)
Cindy Jenkins - Making Glass Beads - page 24 - 'neither didymium nor AUR-92 is necessary with a single fuel system'
however as all say - its more about comfort and seeing what you are doing in the flame
I'll be watching this thread with interest as I use a hothead and prefer to use it at night as I can't see the flame during the day and often look over the top of my diddys to see if I am in the flame!
Having always worn didys when working on my HH I find the flame looks all wrong when I do forget them. But then there is no windows in my shed and the light is behind me so I have no problems with light.
But I did find at flame off last year that I had problems seeing where the flame was on the HH's
I've always worn didys with my hothead but I know what you mean, I must confess to looking over the top of them for some detail work.
I use a shield rather than didys, and I just used to end up pushing it out of the way when I used a HH. I do wear specs, so always had some eye protection, and when I tried outdoors, I used ordinary sunglasses, which worked fine.
Can't see any problem with looking over the top every now and then but there's no way I would work for a prolonged period on a hothead without didys. I started with a hothead and wore the didys.
You get protection from flying hot glass for one thing and you get protection from the sodium flare which can lead to detached retina problems or more insidiously increased possibility of cataracts. There's a lot of Infra Red radiation in that sodium flare. You can't see it but it will do damage. It's not the same as UV radiation at all. There's very little UV radiation from a hothead by the way.
I think the difference between the hothead and a dual gas torch is primarily luminosity. Yes, I agree it's very difficult to see the flame - especially if you are outside. When I worked with a hothead I had a spot light on the glass itself but the ambient light was very dark - I was in a dimly lit garage when I started and I think I found the "natural lighting conditions for a hothead" by accident. With a dual gas torch you can see the flame better and are afforded the luxury of having more ambient light.
I think honestly that you need a good few days to switch from one torch to another and it really takes a few days to get used to one or the other. I've used both for years but I still need to "acclimatise" when I change over.
Obviously - compared to furnace work or borosilicate working the sort of radiation we beadmakers experience is much less than those guys but it's a cumulative thing and I certainly wouldn't be taking any chances not using the didys. Turn your lights down! ;)
When I got my hothead I read so many conflicting opinions and I wasnt sure what to do, so I contacted the makers of the torch and I was sent an email saying diddys were not needed, just UV safety glasses, so I had some prescription glasses made up to this spec.
I just wear these when working.
I regularly attend an eye hospital as I suffer a bad eye condition - when I was working on the hothead my specialist did a huge amount of work on my behalf as to the relevancy of diddies and the best eye protection. Conclusion - always use your diddies. And I also am guilty of peeking over the top ::) Actually, he's not best pleased with my using a dual fuel torch ....
Just a couple more points to consider:
We are all different so what may make one person's eyes sore may not even affect another person. In terms of sodium flare/light radiation you have to consider your own eyes.
Me - I'm middle aged and have pupils like pin holes. It's one of those annoying afflictions of increasing age that your pupils become less "agile" and after years of dancing around to accommodate differing light volumes they tend to settle at "old person diameter". Looks unattractive (and that's why Roman ladies of a certain age would dilate their pupils with belladonna to look more alluring to the opposite sex) but, more to the point, small pupils don't let in much light. Which is why old people don't like moody lighting and insist on having every light in the house on. (On a similar note I wonder whether old people's earholes shrink - by the way? ;))
So, compared to a youngster - whose pupils will resemble that of a hippy at a Hawkwind gig - older people need more light. They also need more contrast. Sorry Julie - I reckon you're nearer my age than Emily's age so you may find it harder to see the flame. Whereas a teenager will have an advantage. And in fact - because that teenager's pupils will let in tons more light (and other radiation) it's actually much more necessary for them to wear the eye protection. So - youngsters - WEAR THE DIDYS. I'm not saying this to patronise - there is scientific basis.
Reading the LE thread I saw that some people use sunglasses. This is really bad. Sunglasses aren't going to help. What they WILL do is fool your eyes into thinking it is darker than it really is. Guess what that will do? Yes, it'll make your pupils dilate which will let in more unwanted radiation. I would say that it's better to wear NO protection than to wear sunglasses.
And yes, if you're not going to wear Didys then it's safer to work in broad daylight than it is to work in a dark gloomy shed without any protection just so's your pupils will contract and protect your eyes.
BUT then you won't be able to see the flame so................
.........use a minor burner with didys.....!
Thats great information Sal and puts my mind at rest somewhat.
I am one of the oldies and work in a bright conservatory on my HH so I should be OK.
I cant see my flame but have just got used to knowing where it is.
I was taught on a hothead - with no glasses even mentioned!!! Presumably in Oz, their eyes get knackered by the sun anyway!!!
Julie - I would say it's a risk assessment from your point of view. Presumably you won't be doing this every day and when you are doing it, you hopefully won't be doing it for long, as you will be spending most of your time taking cash ;D Though my worry would be that you would not be setting a good example - so maybe at least get some safety specs? I like the idea of you switching the light down - that'll be the big light in the sky then, I expect ;D
Kazx
I am taking a guess that this is one of a very small handful of forums where people can talk about Hawkwind and not suddenly get a chorus of WHO !!!!!!!!
I got a silver machine.........
Sorry I digress
You only get two eyes at best, why risk them? If old people need more contrast how come they always wear beige? :-)
I think this thread just goes to show how much conflicting information is out there.
Quote from: dangerousbead on September 27, 2011, 08:09:25 AM
You only get two eyes at best, why risk them? If old people need more contrast how come they always wear beige? :-)
Because they think they're wearing camouflage......... ;)
Quote from: Redhotsal on September 27, 2011, 08:39:38 AM
Quote from: dangerousbead on September 27, 2011, 08:09:25 AM
You only get two eyes at best, why risk them? If old people need more contrast how come they always wear beige? :-)
Because they think they're wearing camouflage......... ;)
Okay, how many of us looked down at what we're wearing?!
I have always worn diddys, and can't even watch demo's without them on! I also torch during the day, the glare when it is dark gives me a headache, even with diddys! I can see the blue cone of the flame perfectly which lets me know where i need to be working, but since i have been working this way for almost 2 years i guess i am used to it! I'm not looking forward to switching over to a dual fuel, i'll likely be in a mess with it for weeks!
Quote from: jobead on September 27, 2011, 08:02:55 AM
I am taking a guess that this is one of a very small handful of forums where people can talk about Hawkwind and not suddenly get a chorus of WHO !!!!!!!!
I got a silver machine.........
Sorry I digress
yep - works with my orgone accumulator, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhWArBhPWu0&feature=related
;D ;D ;D ;D
As one of the oldies, I'll say Hawkwind "WHO" and I'm not wearing beige. Greeny top and blue jeans, lilac knickers and yellow bra, leopard skin fake furry slippers.
I love knowing that Pat has a yellow bra ;D ;D
Thanks for all the input, and yep, I agree with Scarlet about the conflicting information.
However, I knew Sally wouldn't let me down! Its all that stuff about dilating pupils that I was looking for - thank you ;D I can understand that, and I can pass it on. And I will make sure I set a better example in future, Kaz :D
Quote from: dangerousbead on September 27, 2011, 08:09:25 AM
You only get two eyes at best, why risk them?
Jane, that was the point of this thread - I just wanted to make absolutely sure that we really are risking them and that the special coating on the glasses is necessary or if plain safety goggles will do.
I wear didys only because I was advised to but I some times pull them down because I cant see the flame
When I started out I didn't use Diddys. Cindy Jenkins said you didn't need them because the lack of soda flare on a hot head doesn't warrent it.
I asked the question on this forum, and was advised to wear them. Ray Skene gave a detailed explanation as to why, which sounded very scary (but that may have been on another forum ???).
I wear varifocals so getting the right set up is difficult - and now wear cheapy readers from the chemist to the same(ish) strength as my reading presciption with my diddys over the top.
Like so many others I can see the blue cone and mostly know where I need to be in relation to this. On the odd occassion that I peek over the top I cannot see anything in the big bushy flame. I do find I get a bit of eye strain - but I think that is down to working at the same focal range for a while - I get it if I read for a long while - or do other close work like sewing as well, especially if I am wearing my varifocals. I usually get a pair of single focal readers as my spare pair of specs to try and overcome this.
Lighting is important - I'm in a shed with a florescent strip light and the windows blanked out with newspaper which seems to suit. Bright lights stop me seeing anything.
I remember watching Martin demonstrating on a hot head without diddys, when someone asked him why he said he couldn't see the flame with them on in the really dim lighting conditions in the hall.