Now then, here's a thought.
Let's say, just for talkings sake, that we made a SC2 equivalent. You know, same sort of thing, just as good etc, but obviously put together in our factory in Stoke.
And let's say, just for talkings sake, we did it at a similar price.
So, let's say, just for talkings sake, that there suddenly appeared a British built version of the much loved SC2. A version that came with our "legendary ;D" customer service and back up.
Anyone interested?
Now my question is this and it is a serious one.
If something as pie in the sky as this is, was to actually happen, just for talkings sake ;D, what would you lot be prepared to pay for it???????
So please be honest here or there is no point to this thread.
Would price be everything and it doesn't matter too much where it comes from, which means you would buy the cheapest?
Would you be happy to pay say, £50 more for one of ours?
Like I say, be honest so I can gauge opinion.
No offence will be taken as I would much prefer to know the honest truth.
Just for talkings sake of course. ;)
I miss my SC2, as much as I love my Maxine, I'd really like to have an SC2 back in my studio so that I can do some experimental fusing too. At this time price would be the deciding factor, investing in a second kiln would be a big deal financially.
Just for talkings sake - would it be available in PINK?
I think I may well have been happy to pay a little extra for a UK SC2 type kiln.
However, I already have an SC2 and my next kiln is going to be bigger and pink, for the shop (I'll be onto you in a few months about that though :)).
Great idea, good luck.
I agree that pink would be a very good selling point for any kiln.
Well seeing as we are the fore runners of the pink kiln, an idea so magnificent of mine ;D (well Red Hot Sals actually :-*) that it is already been copied.
We should have patented it Sal >:(.
I would think, just for talkings sake, that if this happened that there would also be a pink one. Who knows?
I think I would be happier too to buy one of yours even for a little bit more money. Don't know if you have seen my post about kilns, but much as I love my bead cube it is too small for what I am doing these days, so am in a quandry about what to do next, I really want to get a kiln from you, but the Maxi is soo much more to pay out and I will have to do alot of saving. I think an SC2 might be big enough for me (I haven't really seen one TBH), but I do love your service and support hence my problem. I think it would be a great idea to have a mid range size kiln like this, I am not really bothered about it being pink, but can see it would be selling point. :) PS, may still go for a maxi in the end once I have raided a few banks, as this then should last me a good long time - size wise I mean. :) :)
I think you need to specify what you mean by "SC2 equivalent", Lee, for all those people who don't know the various kilns. I assume it has to do with internal space (just that little bit bigger than the bead cube), and also the working temperature range.
When that is said, I believe you have to be competitive on price for an equivalent product. I have had a SC2 now for 6-7 years, and the one time I needed some help the service was very good, and quick. :) This is not meant negative - the kiln is by far the most expensive equipment, and one that people struggle to finance, so it's only natural that people will compare prices and go for the cheapest, if otherwise they are the same. The SC2 has been around for a long time, and has proven itself to be a very good and reliable kiln, and you'd have to give a good deal if you are to nudge into that niche.
Excellent post Julie and everything you say has already gone through my mind.
The SC2, as I have said on many occasions, really has it tied up and that couldn't be achieved if it was a bad kiln, it certainly isn't.
But, I am just guaging opinion on the viability of us joining that market.
I would be a fool to believe I could dislodge the mighty SC2, I don't think anything will. However, there should always be an alternative I believe.
Having said the above, personally I would love to buy British made - and not only in name, but actually produced in the UK. At the moment, for someone who meddles with a bit of small-piece fusing and silver clay as well as beadmaking, there isn't an alternative to the SC2 here (the bead cube is just a tad small). For me the British-made is the big selling point, as well as technical specifications, and of course the after-care. The fact that it could be had in pink wouldn't sway me much, though, but it is still a nice, quirky feature that may appeal to many :D
for £50 or so more, made in UK, with the excellent customer service I keep seeing on here?
well, the only problem with that is that I already own an sc2!
a kiln that is in between a beadcube and a maxi would be a fabulous addition to the range. choice for consumers can only be a good thing.
I agree with Julie, the big selling point would be the made in UK and customer service. pink doesnt bother me (however if purple were to be involved...)
Well now, I was about to say the same as Madeline but I was kinda thinking lime green .... ;D
Quote from: Lush! on June 25, 2011, 11:17:32 AM
Well now, I was about to say the same as Madeline but I was kinda thinking lime green .... ;D
Behave Jules ;D
Behave? As the only owner of a hybrid Maxi (I mean really, a blue kiln with pink doors? really?) I think a lime green version would fit right in ;D
Quote from: MadelineBunyan on June 25, 2011, 11:09:41 AM
for £50 or so more, made in UK, with the excellent customer service I keep seeing on here?
well, the only problem with that is that I already own an sc2!
a kiln that is in between a beadcube and a maxi would be a fabulous addition to the range. choice for consumers can only be a good thing.
I agree with Julie, the big selling point would be the made in UK and customer service. pink doesnt bother me (however if purple were to be involved...)
Purple .... now we're talking. I bought an SC2 because of the size, I couldn't fit a Maxi into my shedio, else I would have bought British. I agree with Madeline, too late for me now but I would be tempted otherwise.
Or you could offer a respray service for SC2 owners?
Quote from: Lush! on June 25, 2011, 11:23:40 AM
Behave? As the only owner of a hybrid Maxi (I mean really, a blue kiln with pink doors? really?) I think a lime green version would fit right in ;D
Shhhh or everryone will want one ;D ;D ;D ;D
[/quote]
Or you could offer a respray service for SC2 owners?
[/quote]
On a serious note, we have looked into this but as all our stuff is powder coated then baked in an oven it wont "take" on the standard spray paint of the SC2.....don't think the controller would be too happy at being baked at 220c either ;D ;D ;D ;D
Oh well, it was a nice idea.
I've just this week purchased an sc2, simply on price, I looked at the maxi, on a recommendation from one of the lovely folks on here, but it was just too big, and I wouldn't have been able to afford my torch :D
I would have preferred to buy British if the option was there, but I think budget wise, if both kilns did the same thing, i would still have been tempted to the cheaper option.
i have a bead cube and love it but it is getting a bit small for what i am making and when i am looking to upgrade the maxi (not fussed about the colour :o ) is first choice for annealing but that is not all we do with a kiln ......
i would love a kiln that had the temperature range of the cube with the capacity of the maxi so that would mean some kind of mandrel stand that could go in for annealing and out for when i wanted to do bigger things or slumping,fusing etc
and i assume the programmer would be compatable with all kilncare kilns so that would cut down on the price ?
and while we are on building our ideal kiln something that sits on the top for warming murrini and rods would be fab (that does not compromise the door opening)
larger mandrel slots for big hole mandrels and larger shapes ie cabs ,buttons etc
a door that could be raised slightly to accomodate more mandrels (i often have space for more beads but the door wont close properly)
and a kiln that takes up the same space as the cube but has the capacity of the maxi (i did think about getting another cube and building a tower block :-\)
and dream time .....a foot opperator for opening the door so i can use both hands to shift beads about and put the next one in
dont want much do i ;)
I would be seriously be interested in buying one as I'm still kilnless ( after having sent back a duff one from another company). Price is definitely an important issue for me, I'd also like one pink or purple with a bead door if possible please......... :) ( may be with a few sparkles.......!!!!)
Customer service is another major factor and from what I have seen and experienced so far, you offer an excellent customer service, reliability and therefore people trust you.
If your kiln does everything an SC2 will do, has a shelf, easy to read instructions, gets to the same temperature etc, I'll start digging down behind the back of the settee for any extra pennies required to buy one..... :)
What Sarah said ^ I want a larger version of the SC2 really, but with the capacity of the Maxi and the ease of use of the Maxi. As I would have to sell my SC2 to finance the larger kiln, I wouldn't want to lose the options that I have with it, even if I don't presently use them.
I think more choice in the British Market is always a good thing. The range of what is capable with the SC2 is great for everyone that wants their kiln to do a little bit more than being a bead annealer.
If anything ever did go wrong it's easier and quicker to get one of yours fixed.
Price wise first kilns are probably where price is compared down to the last fiver. We know we need it but it is a heckofan expense when you are in the hobby stage. Anyone looking for size and range over anything else is probably not going to be as worried over 50 quid because they have one to keep them going until they have the cash.
I would be far more interested in seeing a maxi-mini though :) The additional space over the cube/sc2 but not as large as the current maxi(ne) and I'm perfectly happy with pink.
Quote from: ScarletLeonard on June 25, 2011, 02:05:28 PM
I would be far more interested in seeing a maxi-mini though :) The additional space over the cube/sc2 but not as large as the current maxi(ne) and I'm perfectly happy with pink.
I think this is what I meant too. An inbetweeny please. :)
The problem with an inbetweeny is that it would probbably work out a similar price to the MAXI competition but be much smaller so would it sell?????
Right I'm greedy and have both a beadcube and the Maxine and a really large pot kiln with a cambridge controller (that's another story).
What I want is half the width of the Maxine but slightly taller and the temperature range of the bead cube.
Andy says fold the Maxine in half and you're there, however much I try she wont fold !
On the price front I'd pay more for one of your kilns any day, You're customer support Rocks x
Ruth x
Going to be blunt but the maxi is slightly smaller and still sells even though there is a price difference.
As I mentioned before for buying the kiln you want after settling for a cheaper one to begin with (or you are just lucky and have the cash) the price is overridden by design, ease of use, size.
I would love a Maxine and currently when I out grow my mini kiln that is what I will buy. My concern is fitting it in my studio but I know the bead cube is to small for me.
But we are just talking :)
(since Ruth snuck a post in there, yes something like that.)
Scarlet and Ruth, valid points, it is nice to know that sometimes quality overides price so thanks for that.
So, a kiln half the size of the MAXI eh........unbelievable. The original MAXI design is actually in the Bead Section of the glass department of Sunderland University and although the design was a little different I'm sure it was a little taller than the MAXI and half the width. That's going from memory and I'm not at work to check that.
Anyway, a single door MAXI-MINI or MINI-MAXI ;D ;D wouldn't actually be that difficult to produce as it would be a case of mixing the two drawings together and hey presto.
I'll took at look at the feasibility of it on Monday.
This is coming from someone who doesn't YET have a kiln, so you might not (or might) want to read this post Lee ;)
Since i started bead making i've been dreaming of a bead cube, however i recently had my first "hands-on" look at a maxi and i adored it! The design is fantastic, i love the design of the mandrel rack and the way the doors open, however i know it is far too long for my space, so what i would like is pretty much what Ruth was describing, a maxi, but folded in half, so taller but half the length! and with a temperature range of the bead cube (i'd love to be able to do small fusing projects)
oh and with a price that wont break the bank (money is the only reason i don't yet have a kiln)
Don't want much do i ;D
I wasn't really thinking about temperature range (I'm only interested in bead annealing) but if you did give it the range of a beadcube then you have something half way between a maxi and the sc2.
if I'm thinking of the dimensions right the internal chamber would actually be wider than the sc2 making it much nicer for those that like to do the occasional fused pieces because it's longer but primarily a bead annealer.
Quote from: SilverGems89 on June 25, 2011, 04:29:08 PM
This is coming from someone who doesn't YET have a kiln, so you might not (or might) want to read this post Lee ;)
Since i started bead making i've been dreaming of a bead cube, however i recently had my first "hands-on" look at a maxi and i adored it! The design is fantastic, i love the design of the mandrel rack and the way the doors open, however i know it is far too long for my space, so what i would like is pretty much what Ruth was describing, a maxi, but folded in half, so taller but half the length! and with a temperature range of the bead cube (i'd love to be able to do small fusing projects)
oh and with a price that wont break the bank (money is the only reason i don't yet have a kiln)
Don't want much do i ;D
I think you are describing my SC3 ;D
Here's my 2 pence worth: I have an SC2, but if there had been a UK made equivalent I would have definitely bought it. I wanted a bit more flexibility to try other crafts, plus cheaper than the Maxi, but more internal space than the Bead Cube, so what you are describing would have been perfect for me. I think a few quid (well, personally, that would be up to £75 ish) wouldn't make that much difference, given that it would be UK made and easy to sort out any problems.
Having said that, since I already have my SC2, I wouldn't be looking to buy a new kiln any time soon.
As someone who doesn't yet have a kiln - but would certainly like one - I think this sounds great. I like the bead cube, but am worried that I'll find it too small after not too long and it's too expensive to buy with short term use in mind. The maxi - although i think it looks fab and would love one - is much too big for my available space, and because of this i have also been looking at the SC2. A british alternative would be excellent - would always rather buy british if possible - but as already mentioned, price really is going to be a large factor in the decision.
Oi!! I asked for green first. Please Lee can you do a pale Olive green, that would go with my blinds (happy to send a bit of fabric for you to sample ;) )
I have as SC2. So far it has been fine. Had it for nearly 2 years. I am thinking about a second kiln. What I would like is something that has a capacity/footprint three or four times the size of the SC2 with a bead door and has the same functionality. I am getting into fussing and ceramics at college. So if I was to have only the one kiln I would like it to be multifunctional, but as a second kiln then only for those two things. I went for the SC2 because i felt that if I wanted to sell it on then I would have a much larger group of people that I could sell it on too.
If I was out looking for an SC2/equivalent price would be a very important factor, I managed to get 5% off when I got my sc2. I know that there are other places where if you get a kiln from them they automatically knock 10% of all their other products.
When I get another kiln I would be very surprised if it was not a kiln care kiln.
We have two lovely big flat bed kilns at Hatfield university and they are both from you. If you talk to my tutor about buying a kiln she just says to get it from you, no debate not discussion, your the best.
I'd have preferred to pay £50 more than the SC2 price to have a British kiln with guaranteed support (although I got fab support from you anyway when my kiln had a bit of a rough time getting to me)
I knew that I wanted to have a go at fusing and wanted a bit more space than the bead cube gave me - otherwise I would have loved to buy my kiln from you - no matter what colour.
I am not quite sure about all the features on a bead kiln as I have the hobby fuser.
But, I was recommended to buy my kiln from the lady who I went to for fusing lessons.There was no debate with her when I said I was looking at another brand she told me that Kilncare are the way forward.
I sent an email to you guys on a friday evening along with another one to another cmpany about a different kiln and got a reply (can't remember if it was a phone call or email now) the following morning. Nothing was too much trouble, even my Dad contanst questioning didn't seem to phase you!!
The other kiln was alot cheaper but the coustomer care was what drew us to buying a more expensive kiln.
Something that stopped me considering your kilns was that the bead cube seemed to small, the maxi just too big.
I think if you had something half-way inbetween, it would prove popular. Especially in lime green - we don't all like pink yunno!
Would I pay 50 more than the paragon equivelent? Not sure to be honest. I think it would come down to the design and if it seemed more logical. If the controller was separate from the kiln, maybe yes - since that makes sense to me to not have the controller getting hot all the time.
Would the great cust service angle swing it for me? Again, I am not sure. My personal experience of service from paragos has been excellent too anytime I needed their help or advice. But it stands to reason that a company in the UK could well be a lot more convenience should anything go wrong.
A kiln that is easy to fix should anything go wrong would also rate highly. Where you can buy the parts and do the repairs yourself should the relay etc conk out. I love that about my caldera - everything is easy to repair.
Emma
Hi Lee
I started with an SC2 because it offered great flexibility. I could use it for small fusing, silver clay & bead annealing. If you're looking to compete than I think that's what you have to offer. I had a bead door which did cause problems with uneven fusing so if you could solve that then I think you could have a winner on your hands.
Like Emma I had excellent service when my SC2 had a problem. I've also had excellent service from you when replacing my SC2 with my Maxi and hobbyfuser.
As to price I will always pay more for quality. But the SC2 is a high quality kiln in my experience which is usually backed up with good service so I think you may need to price match or show yours is demonstrably better to compete.
Hope that helpls
Sarah
xxx
Quote from: Barley on June 25, 2011, 06:57:34 PM
As someone who doesn't yet have a kiln - but would certainly like one - I think this sounds great. I like the bead cube, but am worried that I'll find it too small after not too long and it's too expensive to buy with short term use in mind. The maxi - although i think it looks fab and would love one - is much too big for my available space, and because of this i have also been looking at the SC2. A british alternative would be excellent - would always rather buy british if possible - but as already mentioned, price really is going to be a large factor in the decision.
Ditto!! ;) Would be very interested in a British SC2 - but price is important.
Ditto again - I would be very interested in a pink mini maxi ;D if the price and specification were right
I too would certianly have to weigh up the pros vs the extra expense. Having said that I was one of the people slightly gutted when the maxi was launched a few months after I got a Parago blue bird! The brick rather than fibre construction may well have saved me money as I understand that uses less energy to keep it at temperature. If a Kilncare version of the SC2 had money saving features like that I'm sure it might help make people choose yours
You know what Glenn I never thought of the electricity costs between different types of kilns.
From a fusing point of view the SC2 is just a teensy bit frustratingly small! (Everyone says you'll always want a bigger kiln eventually, but I wanted a bigger one after about a day!) If you want to make a basic set of 4 coasters you need to do 4 firings. If you could push the dimensions just a little so the shelf was 21x21 or 22x22 then you could fire a set of 4 coasters at once, and make this one of its selling points (and thus justify the extra £50 or so!)...
And can I have my kiln in paisley please??? ;D
Quote from: Flippopotamus on June 27, 2011, 06:15:08 PM
If you could push the dimensions just a little so the shelf was 21x21 or 22x22
Dear Lee
Please can you make a kiln with similar capacity to the tardis, and with a bead door and maybe a viewing window.
Could you make it glass (beads, slumping/fusing), Ceramics, metal clay and polymer clay compatible that would be much appreciated.
Oh and if you could make that as energy efficient as possible that would be great.
Also available in Green (lime and olive), purple, paisley and tartan ;)
Yours with appreciation in advance
:-* ;) ::)
Quote from: Krysia on June 28, 2011, 11:06:32 AM
Quote from: Flippopotamus on June 27, 2011, 06:15:08 PM
If you could push the dimensions just a little so the shelf was 21x21 or 22x22
Dear Lee
Please can you make a kiln with similar capacity to the tardis, and with a bead door and maybe a viewing window.
Could you make it glass (beads, slumping/fusing), Ceramics, metal clay and polymer clay compatible that would be much appreciated.
Oh and if you could make that as energy efficient as possible that would be great.
Also available in Green (lime and olive), purple, paisley and tartan ;)
Yours with appreciation in advance
:-* ;) ::)
:D :D :D :D
If you could also make it so it's not powered by that expensive electricity stuff; maybe something we have lots of, like fuglies :P ;D
I know it's all been said but I bought an SC2 last year for its versatility and size (My first kiln BTW). I did however hesitate over the British made/support issue but was eventually swayed by the apparent reliability of the SC2. If I could have all an SC2 does/has but British made I would have bought that even for a little extra. Trouble is you might have to wait quite a few years for my lovely SC2 to wear out.
Julia x