I have spent quite a bit of time tonight reading most of the posts on the forum relating to kilns, but as I have just bought a Prometheus and they seem to be a bit of a newbie, I'm struggling to find the answers that I am looking for, so apologies in advance if any of these queries have already been answered.
I have unpacked it and read the manual - which isn't that detailed but gives basic instructions and some scenarios on what to do to program so don't think that I will have too much difficulty with that, given that Martin also sent me a very helpful "Idiot Guide" this afternoon via email!
One of the things that I am not certain of is what to do when garaging beads whilst making them. I got a little strange tile like thing that sort of fits on the bottom of the kiln - it doesn't say anything about that in the instructions,but on Martin's website it refers to this as a fusing base (i'm assuming that this is what it is anyway - its very light and looks a bit like a big ginger biscuit!! ;D So, if I am making beads as I go along, do I just rest them on this and then move them over to the left when space becomes a bit limited?
Also, my new kiln has a bead door - do I just put my newly made beads in through the bead door, as far as they will go and leave the mandrel ends sticking out of the door and just push it to?
Finally - there is a little viewing hole in the door of my kiln - how does this work? It looks like a little porthole, but I can't understand how I would be able to see anything in there - there's no light obviously, and unless I'm being really thick (which is not beyond the realms of possiblity!) I can't see what use this would be?
I haven't run the kiln yet - and there are no instructions in the manual for running it empty or what to do for the first time. Should I do this tomorrow - programme it and then run it with nothing in?? For how long?
Thanks guys for the questions, do appreciate it. Been so excited waiting until I could get a kiln of my own, but now its here, I'm actually quite frightened of it! ::) ::) ::) I don't want to cock it up, ruin it or misprogramme it.
Can't answer some of your questions Fruddy, but what I would suggest is to find an annealing schedule for a Paragon SC2 (do a search on here), have a go at programming it, and then run it empty to see if it does what you expect.
I found that was the best way to understand my Bead Cube, and by watching it do its stuff, you will be calmer when you eventually use it "properly" for the first time.
I can tell you what I did with my caldera. It came accompanied with some kiln wash powder. I mixed some of this with water and coated the tile that goes in the bottom of the kiln as per the instructions. I'm sure I did an empty run too... It was a while back now...
I first tried a stainless steel rod rack and placed that in the kiln so that I could rest the beads/mandrels on it without them touching the floor of the kiln. That wasn't that great, so I got a bit of stainless steel mesh from the DIY store which I trimmed and bent into an L shape. Then I can poke then end of the mandrels into it, and layer them, so to speak.... And as I put more beads into the kiln, I can layer them up and pack them closer together when they're no longer tacky.
I have a bead collar, which is like the bead door. You can get mandrels of different lengths, or trim the ones you have, so that when you close the door you can push it fully closed. Obviously, the area by the door will be a cooler spot, so you want too push the beads as far away from the door as you can, and close it as much as possible.
Thank you Billie. That's really helpful.
It didn't come with any kilnwash, but I will have a scout round on the internet and see if I can get some.
:)
I don't really know if kiln wash is necessary - I just upped and ran my SC2 as it was without any kiln wash or anything fancy. I do have a tile thingy on the floor in case of major disaster because I don't fancy melted glass on the actual kiln floor, but apart from that I just use the kiln as it stands.
It is good advice to push the beads in nice and far so the bead door closes as much as possible, because this is a cause of cooler air coming into the kiln. If you have a shelf/tile thingy and some non-fancy beads, I'd suggest programming an average soft glass annealing program and giving it a whirl. The make of kiln shouldn't make that much difference, it is the temperatures and the ramps to them that are important - and you should in any case be annealing at a temperature lower than the melting point.
i dont know anything about all the technical beady questions but most kilns "glow" inside when theyre on, hence no need for a light, you should be able to see fine ;) (although i only have experience of industrial kilns im guessing this will happen with the little bead kilns too)
Quote from: SilverGems89 on October 26, 2010, 10:13:59 PM
i dont know anything about all the technical beady questions but most kilns "glow" inside when theyre on, hence no need for a light, you should be able to see fine ;) (although i only have experience of industrial kilns im guessing this will happen with the little bead kilns too)
Aha! Which might explain the little porthole then Gem!! Thanks!! ;D
Just need to screw up enough bottle now to plug the thing in and have a go with it!!!! I wasn't like this with my torch - what on earth is the matter with me????? ???
Quote from: Fruddy on October 26, 2010, 10:20:55 PM
Quote from: SilverGems89 on October 26, 2010, 10:13:59 PM
i dont know anything about all the technical beady questions but most kilns "glow" inside when theyre on, hence no need for a light, you should be able to see fine ;) (although i only have experience of industrial kilns im guessing this will happen with the little bead kilns too)
Aha! Which might explain the little porthole then Gem!! Thanks!! ;D
Just need to screw up enough bottle now to plug the thing in and have a go with it!!!! I wasn't like this with my torch - what on earth is the matter with me????? ???
i wasn't nervous with my torch at all so im guessing i'll be a huge wimp when i eventually get my kiln ;D
I think that its the programming that is putting me off..... I'm a wimp when it comes to stuff like that... totally useless. Lee has tried to explain it to me tonight and I haven't got it, bitten his head off and we've had a row now. He's sitting on the sofa sulking after telling me to "wind my neck in and work it out myself!" ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
i think i would need the idiots guide to understanding the idiots guide! so will you have to "sit" the prometheus or will it do a whole cycle all on its own?
Mine goes and sulks on his xbox at even the slightest hint of anything to do with glass ::)
Quote from: SilverGems89 on October 26, 2010, 10:40:21 PM
i think i would need the idiots guide to understanding the idiots guide! so will you have to "sit" the prometheus or will it do a whole cycle all on its own?
Mine goes and sulks on his xbox at even the slightest hint of anything to do with glass ::)
Its fully programmable with up to 8 stages, so it should do its cycle all on its own but at the moment I haven't a clue what to do with it.
I'm going to wait until Lee forgives me for biting his head off and get him to look at it again for me.
Hi, I have kiln washed with batt wash my kiln because I also do ceramics and have two very large kilns and know what it is like if glaze melts on the shelf.
My Paragon SC has a bead door and yes I feed my beads/mandrells through that. I did a dry run on full power and as already said then the inside will glow and you can see your beads through the window, which helps with placing them. Also I know you do fairly large focals, which on a course that I did, they advised that they should be annealed for a longer time and cooled slowly. Even after a year at beadmaking I still feel that I am still learning, but I hope this helps. You can buy Batt wash from any Pottery place, I get mine from Hobby ceramicraft in Hook.
I know how to program my Pro-1 (the pro-7 little brother) for doing a batch anneal. The pro-1 does not have a timer, so the Pro-7 will be different, but I can probably help you understand the instructions if necessary.
I have found a pdf version of the manual so I will have a look at it and post again after that.
Jenny
ok have had a quick read.
I think the main difference between the Pro-7 and say the SC2 kilns is that for the Pro-7 you have to tell it how long you want it take to get to the temp you want.
When I program my Pro-1 for a batch anneal I set the following.
Ramp up
Ramp to 520 degrees over 210 minutes (3.5 hours)
Soak (how long you want it to stay at that temp I normally do 1 hour)
Then I Ramp down 375 degrees over 105 minutes 1 hour 45 minutes then turn the kiln off
So to programmthe above you would ( from my understanding of the instructions ;) )
PU -1 = 520
tr -1 = 03.30
ts - 1 = 01.00
pu - 2 = 375
tr -2 = 105
pu - 8 0000
tr - 8 00.00
t5 - 8 = 00.00
I hope that helps
Jenny
I line the base of my sc2 kiln with a square of the same glass fibre I used to use as a cooling blanket, as i reckoned if it was OK to put beads straight in to that when they were cooling it would be safe in the kiln, and as long as the glow has gone right out of them before i lay them in, i don't have any trouble with them sticking. It's easy to take out and shake bits of bead release off if necessary too.
I put the beads well towards the back as the bead door stays a bit open with the mandrels sticking out, and pile them up on top of each other when they have been in there a little while.
however I tend to lay the big focals down separately, not touching, as I don't make too many of them at each firing. With batch annealing you can clean the beads and lay them in, shutting the door, but I don't do that any more as i prefer to work with the kln operating.
I seem to only see the glow when the kiln is actively heating up, as I don't think you should see much of it at 510(garaging) or 520(holding) ....in my manual it says you should block the window with a piece of fibre blanket, as that is for observing fused pieces. I hold for one and a half hours as was suggested for bigger beads, and once it has been programmed it seems silly to keep changing it.
I can absolutely sympathise with you about the frustration of trying to decipher the instruction booklet, and the worry about doing something hideously wrong that will ruin both kiln and beads, but eventually I found the right schedule for firing and batch annealing on FHF, and it was a piece of cake after that! good luck, Pris
Fruddy,
You want to try and keep the beads from touching anything when you first put them in the kiln. You'll garage at around 520C but your beads will be hotter than this when they go in the kiln - so they may dent if they sit on the floor and I suppose they might even stick to the tile - which I'm assuming is a refractory tile. That means it's heat proof but sloppy glass will stick to it. You might want to get some batt wash (aka kiln shelf wash) http://www.potterycrafts.co.uk/Products/00030010/P3380.5. Ignore the photo next it it - that's a lump of clay - batt wash is a white powder which you mix with water. Looks like plaster. You paint it onto your kiln shelves to stop glazes and glass from sticking. You can actually use it as a bead realease but it's not very strong and breaks easily.
Best thing to do is probably build yourself some sort of rack to sit at the back of the kiln so that you can poke the free end of the mandrel into/onto the rack. A steel plate with holes drilled in is ideal. If you're technically challenged call Lee at Kiln Care - they'll build you something to fit and know/care about lampworking. You could stand your tile up and drill holes into it for the same effect. Dont' breathe in the dust.
After the bead has been in the kiln for a while you can stack them up or rest them on the floor - but you'll need to allow a good twenty minutes for it to cool to the kiln temp sufficiently first.
Sadly, many suppliers are just happy to sell you a kiln - they're not bothered about what you do with it. The Prometheus is not a "dedicated" bead annealer - it was designed to do something else aswell - the peep hole is for use at higher temperatures - i.e. when the work is actually glowing (as glass does when it is fusing) so for bead making the peep hole is not much use. To this end very few suppliers will supply the kiln with the stuff you actually NEED for bead making - like a rack for the mandrels.
Yes you poke the business end of the bead through into the kiln and the free end of the mandrel pokes out of the door. Close it as tightly as you can. I don't care what anybody says about this, running a kiln will a massive hole in the side will surely knacker the kiln over time and besides will cost you a mint in electricity as the kiln is always struggling to get to temperature.
When I first started my bead door wasn't closed enough and any beads that were too close to the door didn't anneal. I checked them with polarisers. So I had to make sure the door fitted better. This meant taking the "mandrel tray" off mine. It was always a nightmare when opening the door after that as the beads would often tumble out. I don't get this problem with the kiln I have now, but thenn it was designed by a bead maker, not a fuser/enameller/ceramicist.
thanks all for your really really helpful advice and tips and taking the time to type it all out for me. Really appreciate it.
Going to have a go with a simple programme tonight and run it empty, fingers crossed!!!
Fruddy do you mind retitling this thread questions about the Prometheus kiln or something to that effect, because this kiln is so new I am guessing that a lot of people will need the info you are finding now and renaming the thread will make it easier to find ;)
Quote from: Fruddy on October 27, 2010, 01:58:25 PM
thanks all for your really really helpful advice and tips and taking the time to type it all out for me. Really appreciate it.
Going to have a go with a simple programme tonight and run it empty, fingers crossed!!!
Let us know how it goes, specially the programming info as TAN said it will be a good reference for the future.
Jenny
Quote from: Tan on October 27, 2010, 03:01:52 PM
Fruddy do you mind retitling this thread questions about the Prometheus kiln or something to that effect, because this kiln is so new I am guessing that a lot of people will need the info you are finding now and renaming the thread will make it easier to find ;)
And when we have the info it could be added to wiki
Quote from: Tan on October 27, 2010, 03:01:52 PM
Fruddy do you mind retitling this thread questions about the Prometheus kiln or something to that effect, because this kiln is so new I am guessing that a lot of people will need the info you are finding now and renaming the thread will make it easier to find ;)
Done! ;D
Thankyou missus
have you had a go at progamming it and running it yet Rachel?
I bet she is worshipping it as we type ;)
Quote from: SilverGems89 on October 28, 2010, 05:53:18 PM
have you had a go at progamming it and running it yet Rachel?
Not yet Gems - tomorrow is the day! I have not been getting home from work until gone half six nearly every night this week, by which time I am tired and not able to cope with working out what I am doing, so I am going to concentrate on it first thing in the morning, run it empty and then put a batch of my fuglies (of which there are many!) into it, if it misbehaves or I've cocked it up and it turns them into soup then hopefully it won't matter too much!