Frit-Happens !

Technical Forum => Studio/workspace/setup/equipment => Torches => Topic started by: awrylemming on October 10, 2010, 10:55:39 PM

Title: What torch next?
Post by: awrylemming on October 10, 2010, 10:55:39 PM
I am hoping that I will be able to afford a 'big girls' torch before Xmas - long story, car accident, idiot driving, owwie neck ... Anyway, the upshot of it is that I will have a small sum to spend on me!!  :o
So, what to buy?? I would love to venture a little into boro but have no idea what that needs, and as much as I enjoy my nice no pressure hothead, I would love to play with silver glass too.  And since I am working out of the kitchen, it has to be set up in such a way that I can put away, if it's possible to do so.  Easy with the hothead, but probably not so much when you throw hoses and an oxycon into the mix.  And ventilation - currently on open doors and windows, will that be enough?
So many questions, and my brain is shrinking with advanced age (44)  :D  According to my 15 year old  :P
Your wisdom would be appreciated  :-*
Title: Re: What torch next?
Post by: helbels on October 11, 2010, 06:52:15 AM
Hi

Well there's a few things to consider based in what you've said :

1) All big girls torches will require at least one oxycon.  If you are really serious about Boro then in the long run you might even need 2.

2) The "next step up" from a hothead would be a Nortel Minor or a Cricket, but even those will be slow with Boro.

3) To do Boro well I think you need a Lynx or above, but I am sure a Boro expert will be along shortly

4) Yes you will need better ventilation.  Check out progrow.co.uk and give them a call for advice.  They are very helpful and used to lampwork questions.

5) You can use all reducing silver glass already with you hothead!

Hope that helps

Helen
Title: Re: What torch next?
Post by: Mand on October 11, 2010, 07:58:28 AM
You need a Minor!

Oxycons have wheels so they are movable ;)

Am sure you could rig up a barley box type of portable ventilation thang which you could put up an down at will.

I agree with Helen - Progrow are really good, and you will need an extractor. :)
Title: Re: What torch next?
Post by: Steampunkglass on October 11, 2010, 08:44:22 AM
I'd say a minor too, it's such a good torch! As Helen has already said, if you go to boro you really are better with two oxys. I've found you can do boro on a minor with two oxys, but it will be a little slower to do.
Title: Re: What torch next?
Post by: garishglobes on October 11, 2010, 08:52:11 AM
I'd go with a Bobcat. You can start doing small boro on a bobcat with one oxy and at least get a taste for it before moving to 2.. though 2 are always preferable.
I just love my Bobcat  :)
Title: Re: What torch next?
Post by: mizgeorge on October 11, 2010, 09:20:36 AM
I'd say cricket. Because they're designed to work with lower pressures they handle boro (certainly on a small scale) with no problems on one oxy. And they're so pretty.

I don't know where you are geographically, but it's well worth trying to get to meet up with people with a couple of the alternatives to see which torch suits you better.
Title: Re: What torch next?
Post by: Krysia@No98 on October 11, 2010, 09:24:05 AM
While the flame off so close (and alas yet still so far away) are you able to hold out until you get there?

I too am in the market for a new torch and for me am kinda leaning towards a bobcat but as much as I want to rush out an buy one now (Now, NOW!! and breath in and slowly breathing out) I am waiting 'til the flame off where I fully intent on trying out (more then) a few torches.

I know it's pants to wait but I think that it is the best plan in the long run.

(I was talking to Martin, Teresa and Simon as a show recently and they said that the torches for the flame off are already on order.  So even though I don't know which one is going to be mine it is already on it's way to me  ;D )
Title: Re: What torch next?
Post by: Trudi on October 11, 2010, 09:39:57 AM
I'm on a minor which I love - I noticed the Matin as a mega minor on his site - I've never used one, wonder what they're like!

I know when I was in Stourbridge Martin was talking about a new torch - but not sure when that will be available.

Would be a good idea to give Martin or Sean a call to talk through your requirements.

But you will definately need to get some ventilation sorted.
Title: Re: What torch next?
Post by: Mand on October 11, 2010, 09:45:02 AM
I tried out loads at Flame off, Cricket, Bobcat, a couple of Carlisle thingumy jigs.  Think I tried out a Mega Minor, and it was like using a flame thrower after my old HH! :P :o ;D
Title: Re: What torch next?
Post by: awrylemming on October 11, 2010, 12:47:58 PM
Okay, who's near Middlesex with a variety of torches for me to dribble over????  I don't think Jo will appreciate my testing out her torch right at the moment  ::)
It's worse than being a child in a sweetshop (mostly cos I'm paying) and there is too much choice.  I could hang out til the Flame Off, but as we all know, cash for onself has a tendency to get frittered away on everything else around the house, and then there's Christmas between ...  Oh, and the upcoming VAT rise that would be rather nice to avoid  ;D
I shall Google the ventilation people and take their advice on board though, as once I have an idea of what that will be like and the cost, it might be easier to organise my setup.  I think a little restraint may be needed, as it's so easy to just buy 'stuff' without too much thought and in the end find out that it's not right for you.
Speaking of which, I might put a pair of new jeans in the giveaway section ....  :P
Title: Re: What torch next?
Post by: fionaess on October 11, 2010, 03:01:08 PM
I would recommend a GTT Bobcat,,,  because it gives you enough fire power to do both soft and small boro and the option in the future to go up to 2 oxycons and do bigger boro   ;D
Title: Re: What torch next?
Post by: catriona on October 11, 2010, 03:10:30 PM
I,ve got a midrange plus which gives you the best off two worlds it has the larger midrange on the bottom for boro and a minor piggy back style on top but you do need 2 oxys with it .i really like it now i,m getting used to the hotter flame .
xxcatxx
Title: Re: What torch next?
Post by: helenfc on October 11, 2010, 06:01:42 PM
i looooove my bobcat...wouldnt change it for the world. I got to work for a bit on a minor this summer, and it just didnt have the same controllable heat, still a lovely torch though :) i guess it depends what your used to.
I did notice that everyone who has posted (i think) has recommended their own torch though!  :D :D :D

ps Krysia, i love your theory about your torch being on its way already!! :-*
Title: Re: What torch next?
Post by: beadysam on October 11, 2010, 06:09:06 PM
I love my Bobcat, but always wanted to upgrade to a Lynx.  After seeing Stacys Scorpion I need a Scorpion... 
Title: Re: What torch next?
Post by: caraj316 on October 11, 2010, 06:18:44 PM
I've got a mini-cc which I like a lot.

I only use it for soft atm and it has more than enough firepower for that, but I have heard that a second Oxycon will oomph it up enough for boro.
Title: Re: What torch next?
Post by: Krysia@No98 on October 12, 2010, 01:10:19 PM
Quote from: helenfc on October 11, 2010, 06:01:42 PM
ps Krysia, i love your theory about your torch being on its way already!! :-*

got to control that excitement some how  ;D
Title: Re: What torch next?
Post by: Fruddy on October 12, 2010, 01:15:03 PM
I've been on a Minor and Oxy-Con in the utility room now for a month and it is brilliant!

At the moment, I don't have any professional ventilation - looking to get this before the really cold weather sets in, but I have a hole in the wall directly above my torch and the door behind me fully open.  Because it is not a huge space and there is lots of air circulating I haven't had a problem as yet.  I have a carbon monoxide alarm, and I take regular breaks from the torch.

I honestly don't think that you can go wrong with a Minor as your next step up.
Title: Re: What torch next?
Post by: garishglobes on October 12, 2010, 03:44:33 PM
Having gone from a HH to a mega minor and then to a Bobcat, I would have to rate the Bobcat as a hotter, more intense flame for the same level of oxygen. There may not be a lot in it, but I know that I couldn't melt boro the same on my mega minor as I could on the Bobcat. I suspect the Cricket would be fairly close to a Bobcat, too.
I did love the mega minor for its ability to go from very thin flame to quite wide, bigger flame - I think it just depends what you are likely to want to do with it. I would definitely suggest trying a few out before committing, if you can.
Title: Re: What torch next?
Post by: Yellow friend on October 12, 2010, 04:27:17 PM
I have a Bobcat too - very good for fine work too.  I did ask Martin about the new torch - The Comet - but I think there a few things to be ironed out before it's launched. Was looking for a flame that can be made larger for generally heating larger pieces plus being able to do finer work as well - which is what this new torch is meant to be able to do.  I think it was in the range of about £250/£275 I think - best ask Martin - Something else to consider.
Title: Re: What torch next?
Post by: garishglobes on October 12, 2010, 04:44:25 PM
Comet?? Haven't heard of that one - but I'm sure it'll be out of this world  :D
Title: Re: What torch next?
Post by: Krysia@No98 on October 12, 2010, 05:04:44 PM

oh dear.

Yeah Martin said that they had one to play with for a while.  I hope that there are some at the flame off to try.

oh why can't we have one every six months...
Title: Re: What torch next?
Post by: awrylemming on October 12, 2010, 05:07:18 PM
I'm beginning to think that the Minor isn't going to do what I want it to, and I won't be able to afford another one for ages.  Perhaps the bobcat would be the better choice, with the option of a second oxycon later  ???  Or a Lynx  ???  Or a Scorpion  ???  Or a Comet   ;D  It really isn't easy to decide is it - it's not particularly cheap kit, so I want to make sure I make the right choice, but not sure if I can hold off til after the Flame Off.
I still haven't got round to converting to bulk, so I may do that so at least that part of it is in place, sort out the workstation and ventilation, then wait patiently  ::)  until April.  Torture.
Title: Re: What torch next?
Post by: fionaess on October 12, 2010, 05:07:42 PM
Quote from: Yellow friend on October 12, 2010, 04:27:17 PM
I have a Bobcat too - very good for fine work too.  I did ask Martin about the new torch - The Comet - but I think there a few things to be ironed out before it's launched. Was looking for a flame that can be made larger for generally heating larger pieces plus being able to do finer work as well - which is what this new torch is meant to be able to do.  I think it was in the range of about £250/£275 I think - best ask Martin - Something else to consider.

Comet made by ?

Title: Re: What torch next?
Post by: garishglobes on October 12, 2010, 05:44:33 PM
http://www.mountainglassarts.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.11135/.f (http://www.mountainglassarts.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.11135/.f)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjMj04UFPMA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjMj04UFPMA)

It looks a bit like a kid's toy microscope to me
Title: Re: What torch next?
Post by: julieHB on October 12, 2010, 05:46:39 PM
Here you are: http://www.waleapparatus.com/catalog.asp?prodid=677128&showprevnext=1
Title: Re: What torch next?
Post by: julieHB on October 12, 2010, 05:47:18 PM
Sorry, Emma - too slow again!  ::) :D
Title: Re: What torch next?
Post by: garishglobes on October 12, 2010, 05:50:02 PM
Cross-posted!  :D :D :D

....do you think it is called a comet because of its space-age looks?

Title: Re: What torch next?
Post by: mizgeorge on October 12, 2010, 05:57:14 PM
Looks good, but I see it wants at least 5lpm oxy, which would rule out a lot of single oxycon users.
Title: Re: What torch next?
Post by: julieHB on October 12, 2010, 05:59:13 PM
I actually think your kid's microscope was spot on, Emma!!  ;D ;D That does not mean that it is not good, though, the specs look quite impressive.

Before I upgrade my lovely bobcat, though, I need more oxygen!!!

Title: Re: What torch next?
Post by: fionaess on October 12, 2010, 06:01:31 PM
Looks like Lego made a torch  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: What torch next?
Post by: sparrow on October 12, 2010, 06:18:43 PM
Quote from: julieHB on October 12, 2010, 05:46:39 PM
Here you are: http://www.waleapparatus.com/catalog.asp?prodid=677128&showprevnext=1

Actually, I think it's a transformer.....it normally sits on my munchkin's shelf as a colourful little car, but by night.............................. ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: What torch next?
Post by: Mary on October 12, 2010, 07:13:35 PM
Trudi, I have a Mega Minor, after having a Minor. It has a bushier flame, so it suits my large and long beads, but is still lovely and adjustable. I do boro on it, with 2 oxy-cons, but it runs fine on one.
Title: Re: What torch next?
Post by: sparrow on October 12, 2010, 07:32:35 PM
I have a mega minor too, and like it a lot...but I suppose you get used to what you have - I (like Mary) like the quite bushy flame, because it makes it easier to keep sculptural stuff warm. I've just changed my set-up to run it from two oxycons. I also have a midrange plus, but I mainly use the minor on it for teaching, and the midrange for huuuuuuuuuge(-ish ;)) murrini. I think you can really only play to find out what you like best!
Title: Re: What torch next?
Post by: garishglobes on October 12, 2010, 07:56:03 PM
QuoteI think you can really only play to find out what you like best!

Agreed!  :)   I did like the mega minor's bushy flame and I think it is probably more adjustable than the Bobcat or the Cricket in terms of going from very small flame to nice warm bushy one, but I still think that the bobcat was the right move for me at the time - I couldn't go straight to 2 oxys and the bobcat allowed me to play with boro and find out whether I liked the stuff before committing to the extra oxycon. Maybe the mega minor would've done that too, I don't know - just that from my experience the bobcat did melt it easier. Although it is entirely possible that I was just blinded by the purple colour  :P

Title: Re: What torch next?
Post by: awrylemming on October 12, 2010, 09:38:49 PM
That's very kind.  Perhaps we can arrange it time wise at some point.  Thanks for the offer. :)
Title: Re: What torch next?
Post by: Krysia@No98 on October 12, 2010, 10:09:19 PM

doesn't Sean have a load of torches set up at his studio?

It might be worth seeing if you can spend the day there if you really can't wait.

I would get yourself onto a bulk set up as soon as poss though, it really will save you money and it will be the starting point for you upgrading to your next torch.  That Mapp must be driving you NUTS
Title: Re: What torch next?
Post by: awrylemming on October 12, 2010, 10:55:59 PM
I HATE MAPP  >:(  And that was through gritted teeth.  I don't even need to list why, as so many of us have been subject to its whim.  Grrr.  Hence the joy at the thought of a new torch  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: What torch next?
Post by: Trudi on October 13, 2010, 09:25:43 AM
Ohh get rid of the Mapp - I know you have to lay out for the kit, but with what you're spending on Mapp gass t really will pay for itslef very quickly!!! I buy an 18kg propane tank for about£18/£19 and it lasts for months!
Title: Re: What torch next?
Post by: Yellow friend on October 13, 2010, 09:36:05 AM
And def go for an oxycon when you can - don't go down the route of getting oxygen bottles - I did and it cost for the licence, the connectors etc., and a large bottle of oxygen lasted me about 4 days.  They're very heavy and have to be chained up as they are potential bombs!
Title: Re: What torch next?
Post by: awrylemming on October 13, 2010, 09:57:39 AM
My family will never see me once I sort all this out.  ;D As you say, the Mapp is stupidly expensive, although I buy it at Tools 4 trade, which is quite a lot cheaper, £8.50.  But that obviously brings constraints as to how much time I can spend with the glass.
And I'm definitely going to go for an oxycon, not oxygen.  Who needs something else they can blow up?  ::)
Sooooo excited  :) :D ;D
Title: Re: What torch next?
Post by: SallyB on October 26, 2010, 11:33:13 AM
Hello Sue

I've been thinking of your situation and looking for your post so I could give my view. 

If you haven't already, I think you should buy your new set up as soon as you possibly can.  Why am I saying this you might ask?

Last week my husband did well enough on an online poker game (cost £3 to enter) to finally get himself a new pair of glasses (his were wonky).  Fortunately we went last weekend and got them.  We thought of waiting but decided not to and I am so glad we did.  This is why I'm glad.  Since we bought the glasses we've paid £110 for a new light he needed for his truck, £110 for a bit for my car because I had a bad water leak that meant my heater wasn't working and the car probably would have blown up if I'd driven too far and £75 excess because some nasty person smashed a window in my husband's truck trying to get in there to see what he had they thought they might like to steal.  So my point is that, something will always come along that needs your money so spend it like it's burning a hole in your pocket.
Might seem a bit extreme but I would be so upset if I ever had enough money to get a kiln (that's what I need) and something came along that needed the money.

Also, someone decided to go into my shed to see if there was anything they might like from it.  There wasn't but they broke the lock and checked in my locked box where I keep my glasses and lighters just to be sure.

I hope you are pleased with whatever torch you choose.  And I hope you don't think I'm wierd for being so passionate in my post.

Sally
xxx
Title: Re: What torch next?
Post by: stuwaudby on October 29, 2010, 01:25:55 PM
I recently upgraded (with the intention of using boro) to two oxycons and a Nortel midrange with minor piggyback. For beadmaking the midrange is excessive unless the bead is getting to the 1 inch plus size. 2 Oxys + a minor works well. If you get a midrange you will also need a minor for smaller beads. I rarely use the midrange now, but it comes in handy now and again. Last week I made a 3 inch long 1.5 inch diameter boro cylinder bead with it

In summary:
One oxycon (5 litre / minute) + nortel minor struggles with boro, it can be done but take alot of time.
Two oxycons (10 litres . minute) + nortel minor is about right for boro upto about 1 inch diameter. Beyond that the heating time is impractical.
Two oxycons + midrange tends to melt your mandrel either side of the beads.
One Oxycon + midrange works surprisingly well, but i dont recommend.

I wish I had bought a mega minor to use with 2 ocycons, instead of the midrange.

Title: Re: What torch next?
Post by: fionaess on October 29, 2010, 02:07:30 PM
Quote from: stuwaudby on October 29, 2010, 01:25:55 PM
Last week I made a 3 inch long 1.5 inch diameter boro cylinder bead with it


Wowow... sounds more like a deadly weapon than a bead  ;D ;D ;D ;D  Pics of the Ginormous One please :)
Title: Re: What torch next?
Post by: awrylemming on October 29, 2010, 02:36:36 PM
Quote from: stuwaudby on October 29, 2010, 01:25:55 PM
I recently upgraded (with the intention of using boro) to two oxycons and a Nortel midrange with minor piggyback. For beadmaking the midrange is excessive unless the bead is getting to the 1 inch plus size. 2 Oxys + a minor works well. If you get a midrange you will also need a minor for smaller beads. I rarely use the midrange now, but it comes in handy now and again. Last week I made a 3 inch long 1.5 inch diameter boro cylinder bead with it

In summary:
One oxycon (5 litre / minute) + nortel minor struggles with boro, it can be done but take alot of time.
Two oxycons (10 litres . minute) + nortel minor is about right for boro upto about 1 inch diameter. Beyond that the heating time is impractical.
Two oxycons + midrange tends to melt your mandrel either side of the beads.
One Oxycon + midrange works surprisingly well, but i dont recommend.

I wish I had bought a mega minor to use with 2 ocycons, instead of the midrange.



After reading this and speaking to Teresa I'm leaning more towards the mega minor, as I will probably still use more soft glass than boro.  I need to 'have a go' on a few different torches, so I may organise a couple of lessons with people who have different torches.  Is that information up on the board?  Off to look now.
And thanks for your lovely concise info, it was very helpful   :)
Title: Re: What torch next?
Post by: Frenchie on November 01, 2010, 03:36:10 PM
Just for my two pence worth  - I LOVE my mega minor. It's a busy flame but still adjustable and is nice and hot!  Wouldn't change it.....but I guess I would say that as I guess everybody loves their torch for their own reasons.
Title: Re: What torch next?
Post by: SallyB on December 26, 2010, 09:58:10 PM
Hi Sue

What's the update on your torch situation?

sally
x
Title: Re: What torch next?
Post by: awrylemming on December 27, 2010, 12:04:55 AM
I got a mega minor - and I love it to bits.  It's an absolute pleasure to use, although it took a while to relearn how to make a round bead again, rather than a drippy blob  ;D  I think my torch skills are improving by the day.  Wonderful, and thank you to everybody who gave me advice, it was hugely useful  :-*
Title: Re: What torch next?
Post by: SallyB on December 27, 2010, 09:13:49 AM
Brilliant news Sue.
I am so pleased you got one before the money disappeared.  I can imagine after a Hot Head it would be really tricky making a bead on a proper torch.  I was at the Flame Off a couple of years ago and tried out a Minor.  I felt like a right amateur when i couldn't even make a round bead!
sally
xxx