George has kindly been annealling my beads for me but I'm thinking of getting my own kiln in the near future (Santa will be coming early - he's missing my birthday by being in the US and stupidly said 'name your price what do you want to make up for it?' although I suspect I might have to make a small contribution). So, so many kilns so little knowledge.
I'd been veering towards a Paragon as so many have them and say they are great. I am open to other makes though. It obviously needs to do the job for me, some kind of programmer is a must.
I will mainly make beads but would like to try fusing small pieces at some time, and a friend who will want to borrow the kiln does fusing so, can you fuse in a kiln with a bead door? Or do I need to go without a bead door and cut down mandrels, batch anneal or whatever if I want to make anything other than beads. Probably a daft question but I don't know if the bead door closes off.
Really a question for those of you with a lot of experience (i.e. not me) if you were to have your kiln buying time again what would you do the same/differently. Give me the benefit of your knowledge or hindsight. I'm still at the stage of not knowing what it is I don't know.
Thanks, Sue.
i have a paragon sc2 with bead door and i manage to fuse glass in without any issues. having said tht i now want a second kiln to fuse larger pieces in :P but if its only for fusing small jewellery pieces the paragon is great. I've also used it for art clay as well without any issues.
bead cube a great little stater kiln and can go to high temperatures so can be used for slumping small pieces etc ...and then basicilly the biggest one you can afford ;).... cus you will always need it ...eventually
i am just starting to outgrow my bead cube and am saving for a maxi ...but i will keep my cube as the maxi does not go to the higher temperatures
Quick reply as am about to set off to friends in Brum, for the IFG...
Most important, decide what you want it for MAINLY. No one kiln covers everything really, so you have to decide your priority. Then, read through the all the threads in the forum that have discussed kilns, you'll find lots of opinions and comments on the merits and disadvantages of each of the most popular ones, both from when people were looking and what they have found since they bought their kiln.
Things to think of, aside from what you want to pay and what you want to use it for - WHERE it will live, have you got space, do you need to be able to move it around, that kind of thing.
HTH!
Space! I hadn't thought about that so good point. There's not a lot of spare worktop space in my studio. It will be mainly for beads and the fusing probably wouldn't go larger than coasters, just small things really. I'll do a bit more research, not heard of bead cube before. Thanks.
I love my bead cube ;D
OK peeps, I've done a bit more research and narrowed my search down to either the Bead Cube or a Paragon SC2. I could fit either into my shedio. I don't really want to find I need to buy a bigger/better kiln a year along the road. Ignoring the price difference, I'm stuck on which to buy (well, Santa is buying). I'm going to want to make small fused items, coasters that sort of thing but mainly my beads. I couldn't find a weight for the SC2 - might make a diffrerence as where it'll sit on the worktop is supported only in places by kitchen cupboard or 2x2 timber supports, which is why I rulked out the heaver 20kg ones.
Has anyone tried both and got an opinion? Is there much difference in running costs? Anything else I've not thought about?
Cheers,
I agree it is difficult to decide ....I have just bought a Beadcube, mainly because of price / size and being UK made, easy to contact Kilncare for help if needed.
It is very tiny though, but that will probably suit me as I will use it mainly for beads. I understand that you can fuse small items in it. Have not had time to try it out yet due to holidays, but hope to very soon.
I notice that you are quite near to me ( South Bristol), you are welcome to come round and have a look at it if that would help!
Cbeadies, I might take you up on that offer, thank you.
PM'd you. :)
I love my bead cube too. It depends a bit on how many beads you could make it a time as it is small but there's a thread on here about how many beads will fit in a bead cube. :)
I bought my SC2 before the Bead Cube came out, and I would recommend it as being very flexible (enamelling, annealing, fusing, precious metal clay etc). It has a vent hole so you can make hollow PMC objects using cork clay that burns away during firing and it has a larger internal space than the bead cube. I don't think you can go far wrong with it if you (or Santa!) can afford it - 2nd hand ones for sale are rare and hold their price well. I would recommend getting the bead door, which you can fix closed if you're doing other things with it, but makes it easier to anneal beads as you go (especially if you get the mandrel rack from Tuffnells)
But if you want something just for annealing beads, the bead cube is cheaper, made in UK and Kilncare have a very good reputation for customer support.
I'm going to have a look at Jill's Bead Cube Monday and Warm Glass sell Paragon so hopefully I can mosey over there Friday and have a look before making a final decision. My head sys Bead Cube but my heart says Paragon because it has more space - but then space is a premium in my workshop, especially if I have to leave space around for air to circulate / not scorch the MDF walls.
If I go for a Paragon, do I need one with a window as well as a bead door? Do I want to look through the window and would it be like the cooker door, not terribly easy to see through? I can see the point with ceramics but not for bead annealling and no idea about fusing (yet). I'm forunate that I could afford either (if Santa doesn't cough up); I sold a lot of jewellery making tools to make room and fund this.
PMC hasn't yet really grabbed my attention, saw a demo when it first came out and made it look like paying with plastercine! I need to see someone do something really lovely with it then I might get that bug too. On second thoughts, no more new ideas please.
I believe the window is sold as being useful for fusing and enamelleling. but you don't need to watch beads annealing and I think the windows are very small and not that easy to see through, but mine doesn't have one, so I don't know.
Once you see both models in action, I'm sure it will be obvious which is the better one for you!
I have a paragon SC2 with bead door. I am planning to use it for slumping at some point (I've had it nearly a year now and haven't quite gor round to it yet)
there is also the Promethius which Martin sells, this is a wee bit bigger then the paragon (To be honest if this had been available I would have probable gone for this one, but that could easily be far to much stargate and for those none sci fi nerds amongst you, it was the name of one of the ships. I do appreciate that this is a very week reason for buying a kiln...) but in all other ways the same.
I looked at the Promethius, but I don't think I can squeeze that in my little workshop, the Paragon would be a tight fit but possible with a bit of rearranging.
Decisions, decisions.
You will need to factor in that you need to leave a little bit of breathing space round it for the air to flow.
I have a minimum of three inches between the back of my paragon and the wall. It is set at an angle to the wall. Then round it I have lots of jars and things.
The kiln is also sitting on some porcelain tiles that I got cheep from B&Q, 'though I do know people that have theirs sitting on a wooden chopping board.
I have a Paragon Caldera - slightly larger than the SC2, and I went for the adage "biggest you can afford". It was big enough to fire copper clay in (with the required tins, etc.) - another point to bear in mind is support - my relay gave out just before Easter (after a couple of years of trusty service), and it took quite a bit of kerfuffling to fix - Lee was very helpful, but since he doesn't sell Paragons and they are from the US, he didn't have the part in stock. Thanks to google, I now know more about relay serial numbers than I ever thought possible, how they match to performance, type, connector......I managed (with hubby's help) to find a supplier in the UK (an electronics supplier), but it took us so long, I ordered two, just in case the same problem occurs again - so, just to add to the list, think about support available :)
Quote from: sparrow on August 30, 2010, 08:46:37 AM
I have a Paragon Caldera - slightly larger than the SC2, and I went for the adage "biggest you can afford". It was big enough to fire copper clay in (with the required tins, etc.) - another point to bear in mind is support - my relay gave out just before Easter (after a couple of years of trusty service), and it took quite a bit of kerfuffling to fix - Lee was very helpful, but since he doesn't sell Paragons and they are from the US, he didn't have the part in stock. Thanks to google, I now know more about relay serial numbers than I ever thought possible, how they match to performance, type, connector......I managed (with hubby's help) to find a supplier in the UK (an electronics supplier), but it took us so long, I ordered two, just in case the same problem occurs again - so, just to add to the list, think about support available :)
Had thought of this but the paragonkilns.co.uk address says they do repairs and are only in Dorset so I could if I had to get the kiln there. Fortunately only a couple of hours away, or courier. Or does anyone know different?
Have taken breathing space into account, read that in another topic and was planning to tile around the back and one side so I could get as close as 3" to the wall.
Thanks.
You were a bit unlucky, then, Sabine! My kiln (an SC2) wouldn't heat up after we came back from holiday a week or so ago. I called Robin from Paragon.co.uk and had a new relay the next morning.. :)
They've got all the normal paragon bits here: www.electrickilns.co.uk
I think for beadmaking and small fusing projects the caldera is great, especially with a bead collar.
However, if I had to choose just one of my 3 kilns it would have to be my lovely, lovely pink maxi and the fusing would go out the window ;D Yes, it can only do the beads but it does it so well :D
I only do fusing and do it in a top loading kiln with no window and I don't open the lid - personally I don't think you need to see the stages that the glass is at to fuse it correctly. It's certainly not essential, and if fusing is not your priority, don't worry about it.
The bead cube can do everything that an SC2 can do, including fusing, enamelling and silver clay - I would have got one if they existed when I Bought my kiln.
Second to that, I do think the Caldera is a very flexible kiln, it just wasn't right for me.
I have an SC2 and my mum has a beadcube. The beadcube is great and compact but you are very limited by what fits in - and I foudn that if you put too many mandrels in at any one time the bead door wouldn't close properly and it has to work like a drone to keep the temperature up. Also the computer control part is nearly the size of the cube itself! It is great for beading though and if your daily output isn't vast then its probably a good buy - but then you might find yourself wishing that you had gone for something a bit bigger in a few months. My SC2 is fab. I bought it second hand and it has a bead door and window (not that it's much use IMHO). I can slump coasters and jewellery bits and pieces in it and I can fit a full days' lamping in it along with perhaps another 100 beads on kebabs for batch anneal. It costs me about £2 to run a full garage and anneal program (max 8 hrs garage time) which I think is really rather reasonable. I was going to get a beadcube until this SC2 came up - and I am so glad that I went for the bigger one. I almost think that mum wishes she now had a larger kiln.....
Really it depends on how much space you are willing to relinquish to your kiln i guess - mine sits in a corner to the right of my torch on a sort of "tv dinner side table" from dunelm mill (£6 bargain) and its perfect for it - it is surprisingly compact considering its size.
Thanks for all your suggestions and help. After much perusing I've gone for the Paragon SC2. Warm Glass have them delivered next week so I can hopefully collect a week today, set up in my studio and give my husband something else to worry about LOL.
I've found the threads on annealing schedules so hopefully it'll all be relatively straightforward, which'd be a first for me!
Now all I have to do is tile the wall where it'll go to give the MDF a bit of a chance, although Warm Glass said they don't get very hot and their's is pushed up against an internal wall.
That's great...enjoy your new kiln! :)
Jill, your turn to come over to me then for coffee?
That would be great, I'll be able to admire the new kiln... are you going to give it a name..?? Lots of people on here seem to name them, haven't thought of one for my Beadcube yet! ::)
I think a name depends on how much it messes me around (the new PC is Kevin, as in truculant teenager).
My friend came round to use my torch today, heard of kiln's potential arrival next Friday and has already planned which pieces she'll be fusing! I'm hoping there's a fusing schedule for the SC2 somewhere on here, not had a chance to look.
Further to AnnaSpanna's post on this thread, she is right. I have a BeadCube, which was more than adequate for my initial output ( i would do 10-15 beads in an average session) but I have speeded (sped?) up a bit now and have just had to stop beading this afternoon as it is full. Anna can get a lot more in her PS2 than I can in my BeadCube.
However I only have a small space in my shed, I would be pressed to fit a bigger kiln in the space the BeadCube takes up, and it is very portable.
I think maybe you have made the right decision, although it would be nice to think you could get as good backup for the Paragon as you do from Lee at Kilncare.
The level of 'care' is my only concern but I thought that the bead cube looked so small. If Kilncare had something bigger than the bead cube but smaller than the other kiln I wouold probably have gone for it, but I can't get bigger than a SC2 in my studio.
Hi. Regarding your request for Fusing Schedules for the SC2.....if you go to the SC2 page on our site at http://www.warm-glass.co.uk/shop/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=2776. Go to the bottom right of the page and you can download suggested schedules as well as lots of other information about the kiln. More importantly, as the Paragon dealer selling you this, if you have any questions or problems, do pick up the phone and ask - there's no such thing as a silly question when you start out with your kiln (and don't forget you get 2 years warranty covered by us as well).
Good Luck and enjoy! Pippa
Quote from: Blue Box Studio on September 05, 2010, 04:28:08 PM
The level of 'care' is my only concern but I thought that the bead cube looked so small. If Kilncare had something bigger than the bead cube but smaller than the other kiln I wouold probably have gone for it, but I can't get bigger than a SC2 in my studio.
I was just saying the same thing to them at the IFG!
Quote from: Pippa Bluck on September 06, 2010, 11:25:24 AM
Hi. Regarding your request for Fusing Schedules for the SC2.....if you go to the SC2 page on our site at http://www.warm-glass.co.uk/shop/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=2776. Go to the bottom right of the page and you can download suggested schedules as well as lots of other information about the kiln. More importantly, as the Paragon dealer selling you this, if you have any questions or problems, do pick up the phone and ask - there's no such thing as a silly question when you start out with your kiln (and don't forget you get 2 years warranty covered by us as well).
Good Luck and enjoy! Pippa
Ooh didn't realise it came with 2 years warranty, that's good news. I'm not expecting any problems, other than 'operator error', Paragon is a big enough company. Off to read now, although fusing is Marilyn's department (must learn to read to the bottom of pages ....!).
As soon as you ring me to tell me the one you're reserving for me is in I shall be along to pick it up! :)