I am having to turn the oxycon down to around 2 or 3 and put the gas up to keep a flame ???
the flame seems to be getting smaller and smaller and i am having to move the bead down close to the torch to get some heat
oxycon stays on green, gas is half full as hubby has checked it . could it be the extractor which is up high or has anyone else had this problem and can give suggestions. I only got 5 beads made because it was driving me nuts :-\ :-\
When did this start happening - do you have an old or new tank of propane or a new torch? If not...perhaps your torch needs a clean?
this started a couple of days ago, i have had the propane 19kg about a month and I am very sad and clean the torch and workspace after every sesson. it starts to play up about an hour into torching. My first thought was the gas is running out but hubby says no . and
the hubby has checked the gas i am about just more of half way through he thinks. as we use propane for the cooker ( no gas lines in shetland ) we are used to the gas going . I think the gas pixies are out for me not to have fun making beads, last time it was the oxycon so got a replacement now it is something else that is stopping me . :-\ :-\ making beads.
I just want to melt glass thats all and not take 45 mins for one little bead :'( :'( a plain one at that..
I find with my Cricket that I have to keep adjusting the propane up for about 20 mins after I start torching as the flame gets gradually smaller - but that's with my Oxy running at 4/5 ... I presume its just that the oxy takes time to stabilise as after that amount of time the torch seems to settle and the flame becomes stable after that.
tried the regulator ?
checked connections of pipes ?
kicked the cat ?
ok I will give that a try tom
I will set the oxy at 4 /5 and leave it at that and just touch the gas and see how that goes.
I do hope I am not the only one that cleans my torch and work space after every session , I even move the glass I have used .. :P :P
Dogs the cats are not allowed in , they would be BBQ otherwise , so I have 3 dogs fit in my small pit.
will ask hubby about the regulator ??? wheres that on the gas bottle ??? Pipes checked.
Quote from: puffin on June 10, 2010, 08:01:11 PM
ok I will give that a try tom
I will set the oxy at 4 /5 and leave it at that and just touch the gas and see how that goes.
I do hope I am not the only one that cleans my torch and work space after every session , I even move the glass I have used .. :P :P
Quote from: puffin on June 10, 2010, 08:01:11 PM
I do hope I am not the only one that cleans my torch and work space after every session , I even move the glass I have used .. :P :P
No you're not. I clean my torch before I use it. Mind you...I am not virtuous enough to clean my bench up after ;)
I thought I would be mucky , like my office is with paperwork for the hubbys business ( yuk yuk yuk paperwork ) I let that pile up in the folder.
but my work space is still in order and very clean , so are my tools , very anal , I clean the torch and do what they say with the equipment, although not sure on cleaning the kiln yet. But pinkie is cared for .
I wipe down after getting rid of glass and dropped frit etc. the glass is removed for the day ready for the new colours.
I even wake up the next day get my beads out and clean them straight away. Then I do the son's packed lunch for school. ::) ::)
What torch do you have Stacey? If its a Cricket, then you just need to turn up the gas valve on the torch when it drops. I have a Cricket for teaching (so it doesn't get used all that often) and I've been having this problem a lot and lots of people have advised me that its normal! After a while the valve will 'bed in' and sort itself out, I think mine has now.
I have a nortel minor torch so does that do the same then ??
Can you come and clean my workspace for me ? You sound very tidy and organised. ;) Wish I was.
Hope you get the torch sorted quickly.
I don't know if this is even possible but could it be that, while the oxycon is keeping up the right flow, it is pumping out more air than oxygen? So at the higher flow without enough oxygen pushing through the pipe, it is actually blowing the flame out? Like I said, this is probably an idiot suggestion, I just can't think what else it could be....unless your torch likes mess!
The flame 'detaches' from the torch if there is air rather than oxygen.
I have a minor and the only time my flame dips is when it's settling down at the start and when I'm running out of fuel.
I don't touch my oxycon after i've switched on.
I would check the propane from regulator through. Maybe detach the hoses and make sure they are clear and that the jets on the torch aren't blocked. maybe something got pushed down when cleaning it. Are all the jets lit?
Failing that, give Martin a ring - he is an expert in all things torchy ;D
Hey it might like mess and I if I lived near anyone I would clean for glass or torch time so I can learn new things. But I live near noone :'( :'(
All the jets are clear I will have another check just incase , I thought it was the propane going but hubby says " NO "
So I will try all tips tom as I have to go see a friends display of work at her college tonight , she has just finished textiles so I am going to give support in her work that she has done. :P ::)
Ok thanks for all info.
it happened after a long pants day yesterday again the gas went really low. But this the husband was there to see so could see for himself that I was not lying. Anyway he went to the propane and then lucky enough I was in the shed to turn the torch down quickly because he did something and the gas light went so high he nearly set fire to the tardis.
it turned out he had turned down the regulator on the propane end. So I hopefully have gas now until it runs out :-\
When I bought my kit I was advised to keep the regulator 3/4 way open (it opens up as you turn it downwards, which seems the "wrong" way) - glad to hear you have gas again :)
a very quick and easy bit of basic maintenance is to clean the ocycon filters!.. NOTHING kills an oxcon faster than slightly blocked filters.. on most brands there are at least two.. a rough foam filter in the outer case, which can be vacuumed and whacked against something to shift the dust.. and then MOST IMPORTANT of all a fine particle filter inside on the air intakes....
this internal one is machine specific but gets clogged very quickly in most studios and radically affects oxycon performance... an oxycon is literally an air pump - so it needs to "breathe" as easily as possible to get the most performance out of it...
thats me tuppence worth, as always anyone who has a newer style oxycon can get as many spare internal filters as they want if they just email me... unfortunately we've exhausted our stock of spares for the older style units but they are still easily available from stockists...
I'm curious. Why would you and how do you clean your torch?
Under normal operation why would your torch get "dirty"? It shouldn't. And what is "dirty" - do you poke the nozzles out with a thin wire each day?
Seems to me that this is not the best way to go - poking downwards with a wire will simply push any crud back into the hoses. And anyway - there simply shouldn't be much buildup of anything anyway. If there is - especially on a minor burner - sounds like something is going wrong somewhere?? I'd be very interested to know more about this - as this could be part of the problem?
cleaning torches is to get the carbon crud out.. almost every torch manufacturer we've spoken too about this recommends an occasional "tap" on the barrel of the torch while working.. if you see a shower of small sparks thats the carbon burning up...
the tap every now and again keeps most of the rubbish off the glass.. to do a better clean you shut everything down, wait for it to COOL down, and do the wire pokery thing.. this loosens up all the carbon, and when you then fire the oxycon and gas back up all the rubbish gets blown out and burnt up.. most torches are surface mix, so the carbon crud is really only in the first mm or so of the barrel of the torch.. no need, or concern, to poke a lot deeper..
above all - be gentle...
;D
That is really good news for me - I've lost the wire pokey thing and have been doing the tapping thing lately! :D
I clean my torch at the end of a session. I turn off the oxycon at the unit, then at the torch, nip out and turn off the gas, bleed the line until the gas goes out then turn it off at the torch. I then turn up the oxy at the torch and clean it with wires, and the torch pointing downward while there is air from the oxycon running through to cool it and blow out and bits. I also run the oxycon for 10 mins or so before I light the torch so it has a bit of time to blow out crud then too.
I must admit I have had loads of problems with crud since the `oxycon saga' when my torch was getting too hot. I think it may have damaged it and the carbon it getting stuck on the rough metal... :'(
I reckon the torch is best left alone unless there is a specific blockage or carbon build up. I certainly can't see a reason to clean it every day ??? ??? As I said a few inches up the thread: If you're having to clean it daily I would be seriously looking to see what the cause of the carbon build up is. Prevention as opposed to cure, sort of thing.....
i'm with sal on this one.. too much soot is a sign of "dirty" gas... often, at the "bottom" of the tank, you can get other chemicals and crud starting to come through.. i've had our studio minors for more than 2 years, and never used the wire thing on them yet?..
the barracuda is even older and has also never been "wired", although i do the tappy thing every now and then...
Quote from: glassworks on June 24, 2010, 09:59:14 PM
the barracuda is even older and has also never been "wired", although i do the tappy thing every now and then...
I like a chap who can use technical terms...... ;)
I've just always cleaned the holes as a matter of routine, because in the info that came with my torch it recommended that I did. It came with a set of wires and instructions and this is one of the few times I've ever done what I've been told! ::) If I stopped doing it, I'd never find the wires again, and keep putting it off like I do everything else in my life LOL! I love my Bobcat and like to look after it as much as poss, but they are well known for getting a build up of carbon, especially for the first three months or so of use. Its certainly not a happy torch though, since it got overheated... :(
Yeah, actually - the Bobcat is a bit more high maintenance than the Minor. The Minor's a bit like a landrover.........not that much on it to go wrong and relatively simple in design.
Quote from: Redhotsal on June 24, 2010, 11:11:59 PM
Yeah, actually - the Bobcat is a bit more high maintenance than the Minor. The Minor's a bit like a landrover.........not that much on it to go wrong and relatively simple in design.
Yes but does it make you want to stroke it? GTT torches are soooooo sexy - I want a bigger one when I grow up! ;)
I only give my lynx a quick going over with the little metal brush that came with it about every 2 weeks and it seems fine.
I think I need to hoover my oxy filters this weekend!
Wouldn't it be lovely if one of the suppliers were to produce a downloadable pdf on maintaining your equipment ;) ;D ;D ;D
Kazx
Quote from: beadysam on June 24, 2010, 11:35:24 PM
Quote from: Redhotsal on June 24, 2010, 11:11:59 PM
Yeah, actually - the Bobcat is a bit more high maintenance than the Minor. The Minor's a bit like a landrover.........not that much on it to go wrong and relatively simple in design.
Yes but does it make you want to stroke it? GTT torches are soooooo sexy - I want a bigger one when I grow up! ;)
Torch love is just so.......wrong......! :o (be careful - you may get your fingers burned!)
I have a bobcat, and I cannot remember the last time I poked it.... However, I used to get a lot of crud build up, and the reason is that I ran a slight reduction flame all the time. A neutral flame on one oxycon looks very different on a bobcat from that of a minor. When I run the oxycon at 4-4.5l/min you can hardly see any yellow tips on the candles at all when the flame is neutral - easy to test with a bit of silver glass like aurae or triton. The bobcat is designed for a greater flow of oxygen, and must therefore be treated gently on a low oxygen flow.
When I contacted GTT to get more details on how to adjust the flame I was told that you should never have a reduction flame going for a long period time UNLESS the flame candles are about 1cm long (which basically is the maximum I can muster with my oxycon). If you do there will be a build up of carbon, the tubes can overheat and you run the risk of ruining the torch. You CAN use a smaller flame for long periods, just make sure you cut back the propane until the flame is neutral. If you see that the tubes are getting red at the tip of the torch it is a clear sign that you are running a small reduction flame, and the torch is over heating.
One way I find good for burning off any carbon is to run an oxidising flame for a few minutes.
I love my bobcat, but it can be frustrating when I only get 3-3.5l/min out of my oxycon - good thing is it doesn't use much gas...
Sorry if I am lecturing ::)
Just wanted to add, I am not accusing anyone of using their torch incorrectly. I was, though. I had only seen Minors in operation, and thought the flame should look the same on my torch. I used it like that for about a year, until I contacted GTT. After their response I expressed my concern that I could have ruined my torch through over heating, but the reply was reassuring, saying that they are quite sturdy and can handle a good deal of abuse. :D I just wish the info i got was included in the instruction manual!
The bobcat becoming so popular with oxycon users is one of the reasons why they developed the Cricket, I think.
I know about the Bobcat being reducing, isn't it strange how it doesn't look reducing yet is? ::) I was amazed how much different a minor is. I did a course with Dora a few years ago where we did sparkly bubble balls using silver that was heavily reduced. I could only really get the super sparkly bling on a minor, but its much duller on the Bobcat no matter what I try. I did loads of research before getting the torch from the US, so knew what to expect, so its no hassle and its a fab torch - I'd stick with GTT in the future too. Different setups get different results, and everyone uses their torch a little differently. I very rarely reduce anything, and certainly never for any more than a few seconds at a time. I rarely adjust the flame size either, I just work in different areas of the flame to do what I need to do. I know a lot of people turn their flame right down for stringer work - well, I don't do much stringer work, and when I do I just use the `sweet spot' on the edges of the flame, so I rarely if ever have a small hot flame either. I try to be good to Bob! ;D
I check the flame regularly at the moment (new oxycon - purring like a contented cat ;D) with either rubino, or some amber purple - whatever is at hand. Its running fine and isn't reducing. I run it at just about 1/2bar of gas and as much oxy as I can get within reason, usually about 4.5lt. I think its about 1/2bar, I only look when I change a bottle. Its easy to set though, as I haven't got one of those pancake regulators, I've got a mouse ears one.
I suspect I am getting to the end of a gas bottle so that could be partly the culprit for the crud at the moment. Although, its only been a problem since the `oxycon saga' where the torch DID overheat for short periods - before I quickly gave up trying to get the damn thing to work. Its about time I started saving for an upgrade anyway..... ::)
I am sorry but you all have confused me now talking about torchs, cleaning, reduscing, crud, flame size and the rest.
I have a nortel miner torch and now I am worried that I have been over heating it or reducing it , or the candles are too low . My god I am having panic attacks just thinking about it. ( And I thought I was doing it right, but now maybe not!!! )
So for a nortel miner flame size colour ?
reducing have I been doing that candle size too small ?
Cleaning ? Tapping ?
Gas curd :D?
Oh hell !!!
Don't worry about it. The minor will take a lot of abuse - but if you use it normally it probably won't give you a jot of trouble.
Candle size - the little yellow "candles" or cones at the very bottom of the flame - close to the face of the torch.
"Normal" for these is a "neutral" flame. Not too much oxygen and not too much propane. If you have a neutral flame the candles will be well defined. Not "fluffy" (reducing) but not too "spiky" with a rushing sound (oxidising). If you use an oxycon you will probably not have a problem with the flame being too "spiky" but it is easy to have a reducing flame. Candle size is around 8mm for an average torch on a neutral flame.
You want a reducing flame if you want to create a lustre on glass by reducing it. It won't hurt your minor burner if you use a reducing flame but a reducing flame is propane rich and that MAY cause a small build up of soot on the face of your torch if you leave the flame reducing for a long period of time. You may see brightly glowing "bits" on the surface of your torch which you can often knock off the torch face by tapping the side of the torch. Some people flick these off by very quickly passing a steel tool over the surface of the torch while it's on, but clearly you dont' want to dawdle over this process. You can clean out the nozzles of the torch with the thin wire tool which came with your torch - but really you shouldn't have to do this unless there's a problem. And don't clean your nozzles out while the torch is lit.
Gas crud is what the brightly glowing specks are. If you turn the torch off you will notice that these become small black specks on the torch face.
Don't panic. Honestly - if you are that worried or if you are having panic attacks over this you should seriously consider getting some actual tuition from someone who knows what they are talking about. My DVD 1 covers setting up equipment. That's why I made it - for people who are worried about their equipment set up. Hope this helps though.
I have your dvd and I have watched it when setting up , it was all these other posts made me second guess what i was doing then thinking OMG OMG what am I doing
thank you feel much better now to carry on
::)
Ah......stick with me kid, you'll be alright. Don't listen to those others! ;)
There are lots of torches about - and they all vary a little bit in how they operate. But the Minor burner is very straightforward and easy - that's why I use it a lot. And you have to try really hard to damage it, so try not to worry too much. Basically, if you're beads are coming out with the right colours then you can't be doing much wrong.
Listen to Sal! Minors are super torches and hard to damage, I'd echo Sal again and say go for tuition if you can. I'm not good with tuition, the thought of someone watching me at the torch freaks me even now years down the line. I went to Sal for my intro day, about 4-5months before I got my set up, and she was fab. She really tuned into MY needs and didn't push me into doing anything I didn't want to. I ended up watching for most of the session. I got much more from it that way (for me anyway) knowing that I could always play at home later. If you can get to Sal from where you are, I'd scrape together some cash and go - it will be a great investment. Di East is also a fab teacher, quiet calm and patient and if you book a day at her studios you may even get both teachers! Don't worry yourself though, we are all here to help - and more than happy to do so :-*
Going back to the first page, I note that everyone seems to have their oxycon up at 4 or above - I usually have it at 2.5 - 3, and that's heaps for me.. are they all different or do you all work much hotter?