I can't do it :'( All I've got is burnt bubbly glass. I don't like it. What on earth am I doing wrong. I've got the oxygen turned to 3.5 and the oxygen dial on the torch fully open. When I turn the propane on I hardly have to turn it on at all, maybe I turn it on about 1/4 of a turn, any more and its a flame thrower. Think I need to take my colour chart down on the wall in front of me. Its quite a bushy flame and the candles are about half an inch long and I've tried working in all parts of the flame from an inch above the candles to right at the top of the flame and as soon as I put the glass in to the flame after wafting it in it starts to bubble and burn. Its terrible. I knew I was going to have to get used to it but at this rate I'll be reconnecting my hot head by the end of the week. What am I doing wrong, any ideas anyone. I've taken photo's for you to see, sorry if they're a bit big but I'm crap at that too. I don't feel like I'll ever be able to make a bead on this set up :'( :'( :'(
(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a98/Katiequiggle/P1090190.jpg)
(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a98/Katiequiggle/P1090192.jpg)
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I was surprised at how little I had to turn on the propane when I moved to oxy-propane setup. I have a minnow, and set my oxycon to 4.5. Perhaps you need to crank up the oxycon, and step down the gas?? The candles do sound very long! HTH
Cath x
Edit to say, the fact that your blue glass has gone all rusty also suggests that you have too much propane :)
So have I got the propane to high then, if I turn it down much more it will hardly be on. When I light it it makes a popping noise, don't know if this is relevant to anything.
my torch pops when I have a little too much oxy running through as I light it..... it's not a problem though... I always adjust my flame after and leave it for a few mins to settle down.
It does look like there is either not enough oxy or too much propane though hun xxx
This is how I light mine:
I have the lighter close by... and then turn on the propane the tiniest amount possible, and then shut off the oxygen valve as fast as I can (oxycon still running, and has been on for about 10 mins before I start to get up to right level of oxygen) I then light the propane, and open the oxy valve again as fast as I possibly can, then adjust the propane till the candles look right. A very tiny amount of turn on the propane valve can make a huge difference, I think you just need to get used to how fine the control is.
You'll be fine, please don't be put off, because you'll love it once you've cracked it :-*
I have heard so many people remark on upgrading their torch making them feel like a newbie all over again.... you'll soon crack it ;)
I have the bobcat too, it does take a little time to get used to. It looks from the photos that your propane is too high,I hardly have to have any propane running through. my regulator is just cracked open too.
The bobcat is designed to be quite a tight flame.
I usually sit with my oxy between 4 and 5.
Stick with it, I am sure that it will come good.
Aww Katie, I have no advice to offer, being on a Hothead myself, but I'm sure you will crack it soon.
I had the same problems when I went from hothead to minnow.
I now have a lovely bobcat and wouldn't swap it, it just takes a little while to get used to it. Turn up the oxygen and go easy on the propane. I generally work with the candles between 1/4" and 3/8"
Stick at it Katie - you'll love it :D
ps. the bobcat generally needs a bit more frequent cleaning so keep the little wire brush handy.
You need to turn the propane down Katie, that flame looks way too big. You will be surprised at how small the right flame is, after a HH flame. Small and hot!
Try turning the propane right down till it's a very tiny flame. Then gradually turn the propane up, till you get it as big as it will go while staying neutral. Use a stick of something like Triton, Aurae or Reich Iris Gold to test as you go - no lustre, flame is still neutral.
Diane and Mary have answered whilst I was typing...this is much the same, but here goes anyway:
As the others have said, you're running with waaaay too much propane. If your oxygen is only 3.5l/min, the neutral flame of the bobcat will show "fingers" of only about 5mm, and the flame looks very thin (still throws out more heat than the HH, though....). Please don't keep running your torch constantly this way, you will overheat the torch and eventually ruin it!! You CAN run a reducing flame over longer time, but only when the oxygen flow is higher (such that the fingers are about 10mm when neutral).
On a minor you can see yellow tips on the flame fingers when it's running a neutral flame - on a bobcat there's hardly any yellow tips at all. Try with a rod of Aurae or triton - if it goes metallic you're still running a reducing flame.
I would suggest you crank the oxygen up a bit if possible (to 4 - 4.5 l/min, after the oxycon has warmed up), and then try to find your neutral flame. Spend some time on it, as it looks so very different from a HH. I am a bit confused by what you are saying, that you have the oxygen valve on your torch fully open and it only shows 3.5 l/min. Have you touched the dial on the oxycon at all? From what I remember from Martyn's guidelines the oxycon dial should be turned all the way counter-clockwise and then one turn back (clockwise) to be correctly set.
As Cathryn says, turn the oxycon off as you light the torch, and open the propane just a little. Then you open the oxygen until it reaches the correct flow, and adjust the propane until you have a neutral flame.
Also, don't hold your glass too close to the torch, but a bit further away. The bobcat runs a very clean flame, and shouldn't burn the glass at all.
HTH :)
Just wanted to say phwoar - lovely purply torch!! If you follow all this advice you will have this
cracked in no time Katie ;)
Don't fret Kate I had the same issues when I upgraded ages ago. Turn ur oxy up to about 4, turn the propane right down, you just want to nudge it on when lighting it. Also make sure ur oxy pipe isn't leaking, if it is use a bit of duck/electrical tape to seal any holes. Xx
Katie is the oxygen right open on your torch? Not sure if it needs to be, I use a mega minor and neither are fully open
My set up is indoors so probably will not help but what I do is the POOP method
P propane on and lit, I just turn the dial, light the flame and turn down till flame about 7 inches long
O oxycon on, wait for it to stop buzzing then adjust to 3.5
then I adjust the flame by turning the oxy on at the torch, just blue candles and about maybe 2 mil of orange
End of session
O oxygen off at torch first
P propane off at torch then repeat at oxycon and bottle
Hope this helps?
Relax and have fun xx
You've got all the advice here, I can't add to it - but stick with it, moving from the HH takes some adjustment. You'll get it, don't worry :) The oxy will run at 4-4 1/2 happily, I probably had it set a bit low and got used to it that way because I was running it with another.
I have read somewhere in the past that the oxys struggle to go much over 4 1/2, but it should be absolutely fine up to that. And that flame does have way too much propane in it, looking at it! This is probably all my fault, it looks like I underestimated 1/2 an inch!!
Erm... I have a Bobcat and I have 'tails' coming from the torch - a green tube for the oxygen and a red tube for my propane... I attached my oxygen pipe with a clip to the green and my propane to the red tube
Don't give up, its only too much propane. Take a rod of something turquoisely and use that to gauge the flame. If it rusts then to much propane, snap the rusty bit off, adjust your flame then bang it back in again, keep going until it stops going rusty, then the flame is right.
Its a change thats all, different to what you are used to. I bet you a big sloppy kiss that in a couple of weeks time you will be reading someone elses post just like this and helping them sort their flame out ;)
Thanks everyone. I feel a bit more confident now you've all said roughly the same thing. My new problem is leakage. I've got jubilee clips joining the oxygen and propane pipes to their brass bits but I have serious leaks. Looking at the photo of a bobcat it has green and red pipes from it, should mine have these, I'm just wondering if this is a problem, underneath is the photo of mine with the jubilee clips.
From what you're saying about the propane should I turn the regulator on my propane tank down, Its a bulk set up from Martin.
(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a98/Katiequiggle/GTTBobcat_MED.jpg)
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The clear tube from the oxycon is fine as far as I know, it is just in place of the green one in the piccy - oxycons tend to be supplied with the clear tubing and it certainly works for me! :)
You do need to sort those leaks though. Have you got PTFE tape?
We barely have the Propane tank open on either of our set ups (Bobcat and Maga minor)
The oxycon needs to allowed to stabilise for a few minutes prior to use (ran with valve on bobcat open)
When lighting the bobcat i close the oxygen and then barely crack the bobcat propane valve, light it, and then gently adjust the valve until the flame is about 10 cm long. I then open the oxygen valve until i have a neutral flame. The oxycon may go into alarm whilst the oxygen valve is closed this isn't a problem and clears when you reopen the valve.
On the leak front, make sure that the pipes are pushed right up to the top of the torch nipples and that whatever your using to seal them tighten in to the grooves on the nipple. you may find you need to warm the pipe in warm water to help them expand onto the fitting.
The jubilee clip on the oxygen line is ok but you should have permanent 'o' clip type conection on the propane pipe. Do not overtighten the clips else the pipe line may get damaged - Jubilee clips have quiet sharp edges to them, think this is why there now frowned on.
Do not us any PTFE tape or any other sealant or grease especially on the Oxygen this is extremely dangerous and can catch fire spontaneously :o
Don't panic once you've cracked it you'll grow to love your Bobcat and the settings will become second nature.
Ruthx
Thanks everyone I really don't know what I'd do without you all. Do I need a special tool to attatch the 'O' clips. I'll get a couple on the way home from work today and have another go, I'm off at 12pm. I think that the jubilee clip on the propane might be too large, its bigger than the oxygen one anyway, it came of the hose in the garden but don't tell Tim ;D
Ruth you said about hardly having the gas turned on at the tank, is that the regulator or the actual open/close knob on the tank. I'm presuming that this torch will use much less propane than the HH which is a good thing.
Thanks again for all your help everyone I really appreciate it and its what makes FHF such a fabby place.
Like everyone else said turn your gasses down a smidgen, Gtts are very capable torches, the working parts inside are more like a rocket engine than a glassworkin tool.
Switch to using some Old glass until youve mastered just how sensitive the controls are!
Work further out in the flame as its more oxy rich there naturally and work on learning how to set a neutral flame whilst keepign the candles roughly between 1/4 to 3/8ths of an inch long.
most important point, its a Gtt they are the most capable torches avaliable so dont be concerned when you go from a plumbers torch to a state of the art designed tool!
I had the same trouble adjusting to my Cricket, but now I've got it sorted I love it and wouldn't want to go back to my Hothead (except at Easter when we go to to inlaws in Wales for 2 weeks and I have to take the HH or I would go mad!!)
Like everyone says, the propane knob needs virtually no movement to open it as much as you need. Get the orange flame about 5-6 inches long and still weedy & wavering, then turn up oxygen until you get orange tipped candles. I set my oxycon so it can deliver 4 max, but my "working" pressure is more like 3.5, so I can turn up the flame a bit if I need to eg when melting a big blob for encasing.
HTH :)
Do you thinks she's busy torchin' now ??? ;D
How's it going now Kate?
I felt very similar emotions when I switched to a bobcat last year, but 9 months later I'm completely in love with it!
As everybody else has said, it uses very little propane and although it's a much smaller flame, it's much much hotter than a HH and does take a bit of getting used to. It's only really in the last two months that I'm consistently getting the results I want with reducing sliver glass (on a HH I found it easy :D), it is such a different flame to work with - BTW when I'm reducing now I just turn the oxy down and don't touch the propane at all and only seconds passing through the flame!
Interestingly, I found that colours are much brighter now, which from your pictures does suggest that the flame you were using was very,very reducing and huge! My normal working flame is only about 10cm long and my gas seems to last for ever ;D
I also find that I adjust the flame quite a lot when I'm working (I recently had a lesson with well know glass artist and they adjusted the flame quite a lot depending on what they were doing - my stringer control has improved ten fold since then, just by turning the flame down and working above it! Brilliant!)
I clean the torch ports before every session with the cleaning wire and the oxy open to help remove/blow out any debris. Turn oxy off at torch, open propane knob just a fraction and light, adjust to about 2-3in and then open oxy knob until I get a good working flame, which on my oxycon varies between 2.5 and off the scale, depending on the weather, moon phase, day of the week etc!
Every set up is different, so just watch the flame and adjust accordingly, as was said to me "We're all different, so use what works for you!"
I do hope you've sorted the leaks out now, it'll take PPP, lots of PPP, but I bet in a few months time you'll love it!
Good luck, Cerrix
Quote from: dinah46 on January 01, 2010, 06:16:21 PM
I now have a lovely bobcat and wouldn't swap it, it just takes a little while to get used to it.
Aww my ickkle Bobby Bobcat *sigh*
Katie I had huge problems when I went from my hothead to my bobcat but keep at it chick cos it will come ;D I used to run my oxycon at 4.5 and just adjusted my propane ( you didn't need alot)
Oh gosh all this talk about Bobcats makes me want to start torching again ... now what can I sell to buy my kit again ??? ??? ::) ::) lol
I've just gone from a Hothead to a Bobcat as well, so this thread has been really useful for me. Thanks, Kate! :)
I'm just starting to adjust and make some half decent beads, but it's good to know what's normal. I've been working with the propane valve barely open and the oxygen valve open almost all the way and I didn't know whether or not that was OK. Very useful tips about using glass rods to test whether the flame is too reducing - I should have thought of that one myself! 8)
Yes Amber, keep your oxygen valve wide open, unless you are on bottled oxy. Back pressure is not good for your oxy-con, so only close it briefly for lighting the torch or reducing. Myself, I don't touch mine ever!