Frit-Happens !

Lampwork => COE 104 => Topic started by: Helen G on October 14, 2009, 04:41:34 PM

Title: Has anyone used CIM Gunmetal?
Post by: Helen G on October 14, 2009, 04:41:34 PM
I have and I only got black, didn't seem to want to reduce or strike?! Has anyone had any better luck with it ???
Title: Re: Has anyone used CIM Gunmetal?
Post by: Trudi on October 14, 2009, 05:26:55 PM
Hi there

No you're not alone - I've got nothing either!  :(
Title: Re: Has anyone used CIM Gunmetal?
Post by: Lush! on October 14, 2009, 06:16:59 PM
Gunmetal is lovely - but it does have a secret   8)


Instead of turning up your propane to reduce it, turn it down instead - works like a dream then  ;)
Title: Re: Has anyone used CIM Gunmetal?
Post by: Helen G on October 14, 2009, 07:06:19 PM
Thanks Julie-knew someone would know, will give it a go tomorrow  :-*
Title: Re: Has anyone used CIM Gunmetal?
Post by: Dragonfire Glass on October 14, 2009, 07:43:20 PM
Quote from: Lush! on October 14, 2009, 06:16:59 PM
Gunmetal is lovely - but it does have a secret   8)


Instead of turning up your propane to reduce it, turn it down instead - works like a dream then  ;)

Oxidise it!
Title: Re: Has anyone used CIM Gunmetal?
Post by: Donna@Rockin' Beads on October 14, 2009, 09:18:54 PM
Oh thank you Julie. I've been frantically reducing it to no avail  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Has anyone used CIM Gunmetal?
Post by: helbels on October 14, 2009, 09:33:27 PM
Is this possible on a Hothead??
Title: Re: Has anyone used CIM Gunmetal?
Post by: Kaz on October 14, 2009, 10:27:48 PM
Quote from: Lush! on October 14, 2009, 06:16:59 PM
Gunmetal is lovely - but it does have a secret   8)


Instead of turning up your propane to reduce it, turn it down instead - works like a dream then  ;)
Tried that and burned it!
Not one for me I think - I work too hot!
Kazx
Title: Re: Has anyone used CIM Gunmetal?
Post by: Trudi on October 14, 2009, 10:57:16 PM
I tried that - still didn't work for me  >:(
Title: Re: Has anyone used CIM Gunmetal?
Post by: llewennog on October 15, 2009, 09:45:25 AM
Sometimes its tricky to get a 'cool' oxydising flame especially on a single oxycon setup.

Try setting a perfect neutral flame and just 'touch' your gas knob back a teeny bit, work another inch or 2 further out in the flame and practice practice practice. If your flame candles all turn that beautiful blue then your oxydising.
Lots of boro colours require cool oxydising flames but without enough heat your not gonna melt that coe 33.
Title: Re: Has anyone used CIM Gunmetal?
Post by: Linz on October 15, 2009, 10:53:27 AM
I was going to ask about this but was a bit scared as I thought it was just me!!  :D Thank you I shall give it another go now!  :)
Title: Re: Has anyone used CIM Gunmetal?
Post by: LesleyMac on October 15, 2009, 12:14:14 PM
Its lovely, I tried it, messed around till I got the shine on it, what I have noticed about it though is it totally swallows up other glass.
Quite useful if like me you are not brilliant with very thin stringer, put on thick stringer and watch it suck it up.  Brilliant. ;D
Title: Re: Has anyone used CIM Gunmetal?
Post by: Lush! on October 15, 2009, 08:06:59 PM
Love it!

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2522/4015005656_fcb690d133.jpg) (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2522/4015005656_fcb690d133.jpg)

The hearts are CIM mojito and sangre with gunmetal dots.
Title: Re: Has anyone used CIM Gunmetal?
Post by: Helen G on October 15, 2009, 08:25:30 PM
 :oOOOOOOOOOOO lovely Julie, the raised dots remind me of haematite. I had a play today and I think I got a result but there was some kind off lacing effect on the bead too?! Will post pics over the weekend as away tomorrow for the night.
Title: Re: Has anyone used CIM Gunmetal?
Post by: Dragonfire Glass on October 15, 2009, 08:45:48 PM
pretty Julie!
Title: Re: Has anyone used CIM Gunmetal?
Post by: Trudi on October 15, 2009, 08:51:09 PM
wow - nice!!

I'll have another try using a cooler oxidising flame.

You know from reading the US threads I thougth it almost reacted itself! Obviously needs to be coaxed!  ;)
Title: Re: Has anyone used CIM Gunmetal?
Post by: Tollgate-Debs on October 15, 2009, 10:22:38 PM
I'm glad it is not just me - will have another play this weekend - always room for another black bead in the collection though, so not all is lost!  :D

Debs
Title: Re: Has anyone used CIM Gunmetal?
Post by: catriona on October 15, 2009, 10:31:19 PM
So it not just me then .
xxcatxx
Title: Re: Has anyone used CIM Gunmetal?
Post by: Amber on October 16, 2009, 09:23:59 PM
I couldn't do a thing with it on my hothead, very disappointing.  :(

Is the Effetre version the same, does anyone know?
Title: Re: Has anyone used CIM Gunmetal?
Post by: Shirley on October 17, 2009, 09:20:49 AM
Effetre version? Do you mean the silver black? I've got some of both of these but not used them yet.
Title: Re: Has anyone used CIM Gunmetal?
Post by: Donna@Rockin' Beads on October 17, 2009, 09:30:50 PM
I gave it a try tonight. Practically pure oxygen and NO change  :-[ :-[
I am soooo completely rubbish with challenging glass - my Ekho adventures have been a complete waste of time  :( :'(
Title: Re: Has anyone used CIM Gunmetal?
Post by: Trudi on October 17, 2009, 09:50:22 PM
well  I did get a mettalic finish - it was on a spacer bead but it was hard work. I wonder if it will work better if I don't use so much - is just have it as dots like julie's hearts???

Any more tips or suggestions???
Title: Re: Has anyone used CIM Gunmetal?
Post by: Linz on October 18, 2009, 11:17:37 AM
I gave it another go yesterday. I tried everything I could think of but can't get anything other than black out of it! More PPP methinks!!  :)
Title: Re: Has anyone used CIM Gunmetal?
Post by: kerensky on October 18, 2009, 01:58:05 PM
Mmmmmm those hearts are yumalicious.....
Title: Re: Has anyone used CIM Gunmetal?
Post by: Helen G on October 18, 2009, 07:11:46 PM
Quote from: Helen G on October 15, 2009, 08:25:30 PM
:oOOOOOOOOOOO lovely Julie, the raised dots remind me of haematite. I had a play today and I think I got a result but there was some kind off lacing effect on the bead too?! Will post pics over the weekend as away tomorrow for the night.
spoke too soon, rubbish bead with a burnt middle and no silveryness  :'(
Title: Re: Has anyone used CIM Gunmetal?
Post by: Josephine on October 18, 2009, 07:15:38 PM
Speaking to Martin at Sandown, apparently CIM think there is an issue with gunmetal not doing what it is supposed to and it may be withdrawn.
Title: Re: Has anyone used CIM Gunmetal?
Post by: Katiequiggle on October 18, 2009, 07:33:19 PM
Quote from: Josephine on October 18, 2009, 07:15:38 PM
Speaking to Martin at Sandown, apparently CIM think there is an issue with gunmetal not doing what it is supposed to and it may be withdrawn.

Crikey I hope not, I brought one of his big packs of green Cim gunmetals.
Title: Re: Has anyone used CIM Gunmetal?
Post by: SallyB on October 18, 2009, 07:35:49 PM
Glad it's not just me getting black and nothing else.
Lovely hearts
Sally
Title: Re: Has anyone used CIM Gunmetal?
Post by: Funky Cow on October 18, 2009, 10:23:25 PM
I heard today that it has been withdrawn for the mo
Title: Re: Has anyone used CIM Gunmetal?
Post by: Trudi on October 19, 2009, 08:19:03 AM
perhaps this batch wasn't as good as the others - I've seen some stuff in the US that's brilliant.

At least it's not just me!
Title: Re: Has anyone used CIM Gunmetal?
Post by: Lush! on October 19, 2009, 08:26:34 AM
Hmm ... I've been thinking about this and realized that both the rods I have are from the US, so that would fit with the duff batch theory.
Title: Re: Has anyone used CIM Gunmetal?
Post by: Katiequiggle on October 19, 2009, 09:13:52 AM
Damn, wish I hadn't brought it on Saturday now.  I was all excited about trying it later too.
Title: Re: Has anyone used CIM Gunmetal?
Post by: Helen G on October 19, 2009, 09:33:22 AM
 >:( Black beads it is then!

At least I won't be loosing sleep over it now  ;D
Title: Re: Has anyone used CIM Gunmetal?
Post by: Trudi on October 19, 2009, 09:42:17 AM
Well I did get some reaction from it making a spacer bead - I'm still going to have a go making small dots on a bead (bit like Julie's heart) and see if I get a better reaction with just a small amount  if that makes sense?
Title: Re: Has anyone used CIM Gunmetal?
Post by: helbels on October 19, 2009, 11:25:40 AM
Nothing from it here either, no matter how much I play with it.

Title: Batch of Gunmetal shipped to Tuffnell
Post by: Kathy Seamands on October 19, 2009, 10:39:03 PM
I am very sorry to report that we shipped a batch of Gunmetal to Tuffnell that does not meet our regular Messy Color standards.

After we finish test melting a new color, we melt the first pot of color completely from batch (raw chemicals).  We then melt a second and third pot with varying degrees of cullet.  After the third pot, our batch to cullet ratio stabilizes and so does the color consistency.

If you are interested in reading more about the use of cullet in glass cane production, I recommend reading Pat Frantz's blog which talks about cullet use at Effetre here: http://frantznewsletter.com/Blog/?p=317.

Unfortunately our standard procedure failed us as the third pot of Gunmetal (Tuffnell's pot) had remarkably less reactivity than the previous pots.  We should not have passed it as regular Gunmetal.

In all respects concerning compatibility and glass quality, Tuffnell's Gunmetal is fine.  The only issue is that it does not strike as easily, quickly, and strongly as the original pots that were shipped to the States.  It is true that there is some degree of striking in a neutral or oxidizing flame, but it is not to a degree that we should have called this pot regular Gunmetal.

Please note that some people on this thread are Messy Color testers who received their rods from the States and thus have not had difficulty getting Gunmetal to strike.

We are currently working on a production solution.  The furnace was charged this morning with a new batch of Gunmetal that we should be able to judge within 36 hours (after we pull it, make & anneal compatibility tests, etc.)

I am working to plug this hole in our quality control system to make sure that it does not happen again with Gunmetal or any other color.

I really appreciate those of you who brought this to my attention.  The more information and feedback I have from you, the better and faster I can improve our quality.

Thank you for your patience as I am also working with Martin to find a solution for our customers.  Please feel free to contact me directly if you have any specific concerns.  I will post here when I have more information.
Title: Re: Has anyone used CIM Gunmetal?
Post by: Katiequiggle on October 19, 2009, 11:26:17 PM
Thanks for explaining things Kathy.
Title: Re: Has anyone used CIM Gunmetal?
Post by: Dragonfire Glass on October 20, 2009, 12:02:36 AM
Very honest and straightforward of you  ;D
Title: Re: Has anyone used CIM Gunmetal?
Post by: Krysia@No98 on October 20, 2009, 09:55:30 AM
I look forward to the new batches coming through.  Julie has demonstrated what a lovely glass it can be and I have a real thing for gunmetal...
Title: Re: Has anyone used CIM Gunmetal?
Post by: theflyingbedstead on October 20, 2009, 10:12:40 AM
Just found this thread...I've not had a chance to try my pack of Gunmetal from Martin yet - is it part of the same batch sent to Off-Mandrel or is that batch ok?

What a shame, but it's great that Kathy at CiM is being proactive and getting things sorted! I do hope that CiM can reproduce the 'good' Gunmetal as I have seen some stunning beads made with it. 

Title: Re: Has anyone used CIM Gunmetal?
Post by: Trudi on October 20, 2009, 10:17:36 AM
Martin supplies Off-Mandrel so I'd say it'll be the same.

Looking forward to getting the good stuff - I can wait, I'll distract myself with some of the other gorgeous glass!!
Title: Re: Has anyone used CIM Gunmetal?
Post by: Donna@Rockin' Beads on October 20, 2009, 12:30:01 PM
Well that's a relief. I thought it was just me and my usual inability to get fancy glass to do its thing  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Has anyone used CIM Gunmetal?
Post by: Linz on October 21, 2009, 11:15:05 AM
Thank you Kathy for the explanation and I look forward to the "real deal" soon!  ;D
Quote from: Donna on October 20, 2009, 12:30:01 PM
Well that's a relief. I thought it was just me and my usual inability to get fancy glass to do its thing  ;D ;D
Me too!!! It's nice to know it's a fault with the glass, not me, for a change!  :D
Title: Re: Has anyone used CIM Gunmetal?
Post by: Lush! on October 21, 2009, 04:46:26 PM
Proof!

The bead on the left is made with a rod of Gunmetal sold in the UK, the one on the right is a US rod.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2485/4031654193_715b1f8959.jpg) (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2485/4031654193_715b1f8959.jpg)

I really do hope we get a batch of good stuff over here soon, because it is honestly very easy to get this fab satin finish.
Title: Re: Has anyone used CIM Gunmetal?
Post by: theflyingbedstead on October 21, 2009, 04:53:31 PM
Thank you Julie!  I suppose that we can use the duff Gunmetal we have as black though!  I wonder when a good batch will arrive?
Title: Re: Has anyone used CIM Gunmetal?
Post by: Krysia@No98 on October 21, 2009, 05:21:32 PM
I think Julie that says it all!

thank you
Title: Re: Has anyone used CIM Gunmetal?
Post by: Helen G on October 21, 2009, 10:23:02 PM
Well done Julie, I think you've made a lot of frustrated ladies happy  :-*
Title: Re: Has anyone used CIM Gunmetal?
Post by: Kaz on October 21, 2009, 10:43:40 PM
Phew - and there was me thinking I was being stooopid!
I'm sure it can be used as a base glass for other things so not really wasted I guess!
Kazx
Title: Re: Has anyone used CIM Gunmetal?
Post by: Trudi on October 22, 2009, 08:32:41 AM
Like you Kaz I'm wondering if used as a base glass it might give some good reactions!!

But so relieved it wasn't me too - I made a spacer bead and I was at it for ages to get a tiny reaction out if it!! You sometimes wonder if it's your set up that's a little different!
Title: Re: Has anyone used CIM Gunmetal?
Post by: Lush! on October 22, 2009, 09:00:58 AM
Quote from: Trudi on October 22, 2009, 08:32:41 AM

I made a spacer bead and I was at it for ages to get a tiny reaction out if it!!


I couldn't capture it in the photo, but there is a little reaction in the left hand bead, a touch of satin grey, so it may well do something interesting as a base.
Title: Re: Has anyone used CIM Gunmetal?
Post by: Katiequiggle on October 22, 2009, 09:11:04 AM
What about these then.

(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a98/Katiequiggle/P1070964.jpg)
Title: Re: Has anyone used CIM Gunmetal?
Post by: Lush! on October 22, 2009, 09:13:31 AM
Those?


Those????????????????????/


Wow!  Bang goes the theory!   ;D ;D
Title: Re: Has anyone used CIM Gunmetal?
Post by: Katiequiggle on October 22, 2009, 09:45:45 AM
I have to be honest, they're not gunmetal.
Title: Re: Has anyone used CIM Gunmetal?
Post by: theflyingbedstead on October 22, 2009, 09:52:30 AM
So - what are they made from then?!!!!!

Reichenbach black?
Title: Re: Has anyone used CIM Gunmetal?
Post by: Katiequiggle on October 22, 2009, 09:56:06 AM
They're made from the new Eff silver black.  I got it on Saturday and I love it.  Really really easy to use, I think it must strike cause I don't do much with it other than move it in and out of the flame for it to turn.  It looks even more lovely in real life.  But then I'm their Mum and I'm biased  ;D
Title: Re: Has anyone used CIM Gunmetal?
Post by: Lush! on October 22, 2009, 09:56:43 AM
Ha!

You had me fooled then Kate, I was really puzzled!  Is it Effetre Silver Black?


oops cross posting with you - Effetre it is!
Title: Re: Has anyone used CIM Gunmetal?
Post by: theflyingbedstead on October 22, 2009, 09:57:44 AM
Aha!  Thanks Katie - they are lovely beads btw!
Title: Re: Has anyone used CIM Gunmetal?
Post by: Trudi on October 22, 2009, 10:01:06 AM
super beads Katie - I think that you "should" also be able to get colours from it too - but it's not as easy!
Title: Re: Has anyone used CIM Gunmetal?
Post by: Krysia@No98 on October 22, 2009, 10:28:27 AM
Quote from: Katiequiggle on October 22, 2009, 09:56:06 AM
They're made from the new Eff silver black.  I got it on Saturday and I love it.  Really really easy to use, I think it must strike cause I don't do much with it other than move it in and out of the flame for it to turn.  It looks even more lovely in real life.

Good good, this is what I like to hear especailly as I have some on their way.
Title: Re: Has anyone used CIM Gunmetal?
Post by: Katiequiggle on October 22, 2009, 01:24:48 PM
Quote from: Trudi on October 22, 2009, 10:01:06 AM
super beads Katie - I think that you "should" also be able to get colours from it too - but it's not as easy!

Oooh you can, well in as much as I've got a dark metalic purple and dark green, not sure if thats what you mean, the colours are amazing, its so difficult to photograph them to show their true beauty.  Almost a bit like water on oil but not swirly itms.
Title: Re: Has anyone used CIM Gunmetal?
Post by: Donna@Rockin' Beads on November 11, 2009, 08:20:00 PM
Katie, they're lovely. Just what I was hoping to get from CIM Gunmetal.
Has anyone heard what's happening with the dud batch?
Title: Re: Has anyone used CIM Gunmetal?
Post by: Kathy Seamands on November 16, 2009, 06:24:14 PM
Thanks for your patience as I tested my way through this issue.

We have determined that melting entirely from batch produces Gunmetal that is comparable to the regular Gunmetal batch released in the marketplace in the States. 

If we mix cullet with batch then it should be labeled Unique Gunmetal to communicate that its reactive qualities are lessened.  The batch that we shipped to Tuffnell Glass should have been labeled 511885-1 Unique Gunmetal.
 
I have posted Messy testers' feedback and working tips to our site here: http://www.creationismessy.com/color.aspx?id=70. The working tips for regular Gunmetal apply also to the 511885-1 Unique Gunmetal batch.

Please note that Gunmetal is not a "magic" glass that will work for everyone.  Even the batch that was being raved about in the US as "easy to strike" had 25-30% of testers tell me they could not strike it at all.  Whether or not Gunmetal will work for you depends on your particular working style and atmosphere.

I posted photos comparing the 885-1 Unique batch to the regular here: http://www.creationismessy.com/unique.aspx?id=70

Here are more working tips specifically for 511885-1 from our testers which are potentially relevant to the batch that each of you has in hand:
-While Gunmetal (regular) strikes to a matte bronze/gunmetal color, Unique Gunmetal strikes to more of a hematite/silver-black color.   (Pat Frantz suggests the Unique is similar to working DH Triton.)
-Best results are achieved with a neutral to oxidizing flame.
-With both the regular and the Unique, it is difficult to keep the entire surface of the bead struck. Expect "mottling" to occur.
-Unique Gunmetal is harder to strike / takes more time and work than regular Gunmetal.

I hope this information is helpful and will allow you to achieve the look you are going for with Gunmetal, both regular and Unique.  If anyone has photos or feedback to contribute to the content on our Gunmetal and Gunmetal Uniques pages, I would appreciate it if you would send it along for posting. 

I am waiting for feedback from Martin on when and how to ship the Gunmetal replacements.  When I have that information, I will post here.  Thanks again for everyone's patience!

Kathy


Title: Re: Has anyone used CIM Gunmetal?
Post by: Kaz on November 16, 2009, 07:09:39 PM
Thanks for keeping us in the loop on this Kathy.
Kazx
Title: Re: Has anyone used CIM Gunmetal?
Post by: Kathy Seamands on June 17, 2010, 10:10:26 PM
I just remembered to post a follow up in this thread. Apologies for the delay!  Tuffnell Glass has received 2 different batches of Gunmetal since the previous time of posting. I know Martin has it for sale now.

I would recommend reviewing all the feedback on our Messy Gunmetal page prior to purchase & use:
http://www.creationismessy.com/color.aspx?id=70

Please feel free to email me if you have any questions.
Kathy
Title: Re: Has anyone used CIM Gunmetal?
Post by: Krysia@No98 on June 20, 2010, 08:55:08 AM

I really like this glass and have played with some from the first batch.  I work on a hot head and found that for me the best way to get the reaction was to hold the glass outside the flame but right at the bottom of the torch.  for me this made the reaction instantaneous.  I am yet to play with the newer stuff even though I have it.

Thank you for the update