I've finally got it! My kiln has arrived (Skutt Hotstart Pro) and I've just spent the weekend getting it unpacked, positioned and I've been trying to devour the manual!
But I'm all in a tiz and I need your help. I'm not very good with manuals and I had assumed by what I read on the internet that it was just a case of plug in and go! But I've got to page 14 of the manual and it's giving me a chart to pick Fast, Medium or Slow heating rates. It goes lilke this:-
FAST
1/8" Thick - 18" diameter or smaller
1/4" Thick - 4" diameter or smaller
3/8" Thick - Not recommended
MEDIUM
1/8" Thick - 20" diameter or smaller
1/4" Thick - 8" diameter or smaller
3/8" Thick - 5" diameter or smaller
SLOW
1/8" Thick - 24" diameter or smaller
1/4" Thick - 18" diameter or smaller
3/8" Thick - 12" diameter or smaller
1/2" Thick - 8" diameter or smaller
Sorry for being so dim here (hopefully I'll laugh about this later!) but all I want to do is put in all my prepared dichro pieces (which would just be pendants and smallish type cabochons) close the lid, and flick the switch. I do intend to maximise use of the shelf space and (it's about 13"/33cm) and I know to keep them an 1" apart and away from the sides. So which one do I choose?
Then it asks for me to choose between Slump, Tac-Fuse or Full Fuse. I've only witnessed full fuse on the course, but what happens with Tac-Fuse?
Also, how long does the whole process take?
I wish there was something with pictures that you could look at and say "well that's what I want" and click on it to see exactly how it's fired. Is that wishful thinking?
I know there are so many factors that contribute to either the success or failure of firing and it all comes with experience and skill that you have to learn and knowing what your kiln can do. I'm just anxious to try to get it right which is why I bought this model.
So, if anyone has the same model of kiln, I'd be really grateful if you could help me.
Thanks in advance,
Linda x
Ask yourself first how thick your pendants are, probably 1/4 inch or less then look at the size, presumably 4 inch in diameter or smaller so you would choose FAST.The difference berween tack fuse is that full fuse results in a smooth surface while tack fuse leaves the top bits of glass still proud of the base. You probably want a full fuse for pendants and cabochons, leaving them with a nice smooth surface. Hope this helps.
Linda, I have this kiln, to be honest, I took mine straight off the Glassfire program and I set all my ramps and holds myself, so I can't simply tell you which button to push as I never fired mine on it.
But I had been fusing for over a year before I got it, so I already understood kiln firing schedules.
If you have particular schedule you want to follow, you can easily do this with a Hot start programmer, but otherwise it's exactly as Pat says.
My kiln tends to take about 10 - 12 hours to do a full schedule, but I do tend to ramp up conservatively, so it's probably faster than that on the Glassfire schedule.
BEFORE you fire anything in it, though, run it through empty, leaving the bung out to vent off any residues - it will get a bit smelly!
You don't have to your pieces away from the sides with a Skutt, as it is a top firing kiln (it's side firing kilns that you have to be careful of the edges), I put my pieces much closer together, perhaps half an inch gap at most, and I will go that close to the edge too.
I've got a great info sheet from Bullseye, I will come back and either post the website link, or email it direct to you if you can read PDFs.
It explains what happens at each process temperature.
When I teach my one day courses, I explain what the different processes are......
Bullseye Tip Sheet - Heat and Glass (http://www.bullseyeglass.com/pdf/technotes_tipsheets/TechNotes_04.pdf)
And Linda, don't panic!!! It's a fab kiln, if I am disappointed with any results out of mine, its usually my own design error, or not cleaning the glass, etc.
It is the bestest little kiln in the world!!!! Have loads of fun with it, took me a while to get my head round it too, but one day a little light went "ting" and off I went! ;D
Quote from: bluefairy on October 12, 2009, 01:42:43 PM
It is the bestest little kiln in the world!!!!
Lol, I was gonna say when I was singing its praises, just ask Helen Blue Fairy.....
Quote from: Zeldazog on October 12, 2009, 02:13:01 PM
Quote from: bluefairy on October 12, 2009, 01:42:43 PM
It is the bestest little kiln in the world!!!!
Lol, I was gonna say when I was singing its praises, just ask Helen Blue Fairy.....
;D
Do I know that feeling! I got my new kiln the other week (different to yours) and I was a good girl too and read the manual. My question, how many different languages did they translate it through before it got to English and more importantly what happened to the pages that actually say push this button to start and that button to program!! I do love my kiln though. It's going to run up many and electrical bill for me
Gee, thanks folks! I feel a little better now.
QuoteBEFORE you fire anything in it, though, run it through empty, leaving the bung out to vent off any residues - it will get a bit smelly!
Is the "bung" you mention here, the little plug on the left hand side?
Thanks for the link btw! x
Yeah, the porcelain "mushroom" thingy.
You'd normally fire with it in, after first firing, which will give off smells up to around 400 degrees C ---- and again, if ever you're firing anything that might give off fumes/burn of residue, fire the first few hundred degrees with it out, then pop it back in.
I am so glad you asked ;)
Mine arrived last week but is still in its box 'cause I've been away.
Need to clear a space in the garage for it then I can get started :D
There's a number of Tutorials here on fusing/slumping that will help you. I expecially recommend "Kilnforming Kindergarten":
http://www.glasscampus.com
Thank you so much! There's loads of very useful info covering lots of subjects in this link. Just downloaded the Kilnforming Kindergarten - looks like a really good read!
Linda, just had a thought....
I think the pre-programmed temperatures in the Hot Start are designed or Spectrum/System 96 glass -
Are you using that, or Bullseye, or float?
I don't know Spectrum, but IIRC it fires at slightly lower process temperatures than Bullseye (and float is higher still) - Dennis will no doubt confirm, cos he's a mine of information!
So, if your first results aren't quite as rounded as expected, that might explain it (which isn't a problem you can always re-fire a bit hotter) - that said, EVERY kiln fires differently and you need to get used to yours - some seem to run hotter than others.
In fact, good advice is, for the first firing, even thought I know you want to maximize space, it might be worth firing just a very small number of items, just so you know how your kiln runs. (many glass artists run full tests on their kilns to identify any hot or cold spots and ascertain whether their kiln runs hotter, etc - although you should find your Skutt fires nice an evenly).
It might sound wasteful, but it only costs about 50p-£1 (depending on what you pay for your leccy) to run a full fuse in the Pro - far cheaper to run one schedule for that, than a kiln full of glass which probably cost much more.
Quote from: Zeldazog on October 12, 2009, 11:54:23 PM
Linda, just had a thought....
I think the pre-programmed temperatures in the Hot Start are designed or Spectrum/System 96 glass -
Are you using that, or Bullseye, or float?
I don't know Spectrum, but IIRC it fires at slightly lower process temperatures than Bullseye (and float is higher still) - Dennis will no doubt confirm, cos he's a mine of information!
So, if your first results aren't quite as rounded as expected, that might explain it (which isn't a problem you can always re-fire a bit hotter) - that said, EVERY kiln fires differently and you need to get used to yours - some seem to run hotter than others.
In fact, good advice is, for the first firing, even thought I know you want to maximize space, it might be worth firing just a very small number of items, just so you know how your kiln runs. (many glass artists run full tests on their kilns to identify any hot or cold spots and ascertain whether their kiln runs hotter, etc - although you should find your Skutt fires nice an evenly).
It might sound wasteful, but it only costs about 50p-£1 (depending on what you pay for your leccy) to run a full fuse in the Pro - far cheaper to run one schedule for that, than a kiln full of glass which probably cost much more.
Yup. You will NOT get the same results for Bullseye and Spectrum with the same firing schedules. The lower the COE, the harder the glass. The harder the glass, the more heat required to soften. You can use the same firing schedules for all glass by varying the top temperatures in each segment. From a schedule for COE 96 Spectrum, for Bullseye COE 90 add 25 deg F and for float or architectural COE 82 - 84, add 50 deg F.
For example: The following is a basic tack fusing schedule for Spectrum that will produce a reliable fuse without flattening the edges other then a very slight rounding of the corners:
1. 400 dph to 1000F hold 20
2. 850 dph to 1350F hold 20
3. FAP to 960F hold 60
4. 400 dph to 300 OFF
To get the identical results with Bullseye the schedule would be:
1. 400 dph to 1025F hold 20
2. 850 dph to 1375F hold 20
3. FAP to 985F hold 60
4. 400 dph to 300 OFF
That would produce the same degree of tack fuse on both Spectrum and Bullseye. Some things to consider that we routinely do that many others do not:
1. Turn kiln off at 300F. Although most fusers allow their final segment to cool to room temperature, our studio practice is to use the 3-2-1 expedited cooling on all firings. At 300F crack the kiln an inch or so. At 200F fully open the kiln. At 100F remove the load and reload to refire. This ensures the kiln fires rapidly enough it can always be fired twice each day.
2. Hold to equalize at 1000F. Many fuser just ramp up to performance temperature. We make a routine practice of holding for a soak at 1000F because we know that it is only below that temp that thermal shock is a risk. Above that temp (if the glass is uniformly heated) it's safe to ramp at very high speed. Many specialized firing techniques are only possible with very high speed ramps. Ramping slow might be a very common recommendation but it is NOT a universal solution.
Thank you Dennis, I knew you would confirm if I was right. I never work with Spectrum/System 96 to be honest, but I am sure that's what the kiln pre-program is designed for.
Regards your point 2, I do tend to ramp slowly, but only up to my bubble soak. Once I have done that, I ramp as fast as possible up to soak, and as fast as possible back down to anneal - although my bubble squeeze, or hold to equalize is actually higher than that, at around 650 C (1200F), which I got from Bullseye.
The main reason for my slower ramp before that is simply laziness on my part - even in terms of a 12" diameter its a bit slow, but it covers me if it has to go back into the kiln a second or third time.
For a lot of home fusers, maximizing the number of firings you can do each day is not so important, although I can see why you do it. Sometimes I do crack the kiln early, if I have a lot of work going through or if I am impatient to see results! And I bought myself a second shelf for those times when I need to reload straight away.
Dennis, I'd love to see your studio, it must be a hive of mad activity!
Thanks guys! Yes, I have bought in a lot of Bullseye which is what I intend to use. With the kiln, I also got a load of Spectrum/System 96 glass which I never expected (thought I was just getting a couple of samples).
Gosh, I wish I was more technically savvy! There are a couple of abbreviations/terms that I'm just not sure of. When you mention
Quote3. FAP to 960F hold 60
- what does FAP mean? Also when you say
Quotecrack the kiln
is this when you open the door/lid? As you know the Hotstart Pro is a top loader, so a little heavy. If this is what you mean, do I wedge it?
Sorry, I'm such a newbie at this and I'll probably laugh at these questions soon enough, but right now everything is a foreign language to me!
I fully appreciate that it will be a case of trial and error until I am familiar with the kiln and I'm VERY grateful for your patience and help with this.
Please, please don't struggle with your kiln - give us a call on 01934 863344 and we will talk you through your first firings. We spend literally hours talking to customers on the phone to "hold their hands" through the early days so please don't feel isolated and give us a call. Simon is the best person to speak to about firing schedules and technical stuff but any of the staff here should be able to help you.
Thanks, Pippa
(I got my kiln from somewere else but...)
Take these guys up on their offer for any problems, I did (for my suppliers) and they were fantastic!! I didn't feel like I was pestering and I didn't feel like an idiot.
Thats it - the kiln is finally switch on! I've acted on all your advice - thank you all sooooo much!
I'll let you know the outcome in a few hours - fingers crossed x
Quote
Gosh, I wish I was more technically savvy! There are a couple of abbreviations/terms that I'm just not sure of. When you mention Quote3. FAP to 960F hold 60
- what does FAP mean?
FAP means Fast As Possible. The controller programming code for that is 9999.
QuoteAlso when you say Quotecrack the kiln
is this when you open the door/lid? As you know the Hotstart Pro is a top loader, so a little heavy. If this is what you mean, do I wedge it?
Yup. It means to open the lid an inch or so and prop it open. Some makes of kiln have a notch on the lid lift arm specially for that purpose, but for kilns that don't have a notch, a shelf post works perfectly to hold the lid open. Opening the lid to expedite cooling is a common practice for pottery and is sometimes recommended for glass. Be verrrrrry careful about fully opening your kiln lid at full temperature. Pottery kilns have smooth surface lids and can tolerate the shock of room temperature air striking the hot kiln lid. Glass kilns with groved in lid elements tend to start to crumble along the element groves when temperature shocked. This article has a photo of what happens when you open a glass kiln lid at top temperature:
http://www.glasscampus.com/tutorials/pdf/Kiln%20Lid%20Dust.pdf
QuoteSorry, I'm such a newbie at this and I'll probably laugh at these questions soon enough, but right now everything is a foreign language to me!
Don't worry about it. Everybody started off the same. In every profession (and kilnforming is a profession) specific terminology is used to assure universal understanding. Don't be afraid to ask questions. We've all heard the statement,
"There are no stupid questions". That's not entirely true. There is one universally stupid question. That's any question you wanted to ask but didn't. Ask away. Some respondents might display impatience at hearing the same question repeated 100 times. Ignore them. Most will instead understand that just because they've heard that question 100 times doesn't mean it isn't the first time you asked it. Ask away.
[/quote]
QuoteDennis, I'd love to see your studio, it must be a hive of mad activity!
Absobloodylutely. Mad is the appropriate term. In addition to stained glass and sandblasting, we have 6 kilns firing non-stop. I'll see about getting some photos on our website.
I get the impression from various comments that Bullseye is more commonly used in the UK then Spectrum. Is that so? On our side, I'd estimate about 80% of the market is Spectrum. In our shop, it's 90%+. Many retailers no longer even carry Bullseye. Spectrum is about half the price of Bullseye and only a few purists still use it.
Why the greater popularity of Bullseye? Greater supply availability?
Quote from: Dennis Brady on October 13, 2009, 05:24:51 PMBe verrrrrry careful about fully opening your kiln lid at full temperature. Pottery kilns have smooth surface lids and can tolerate the shock of room temperature air striking the hot kiln lid. Glass kilns with groved in lid elements tend to start to crumble along the element groves when temperature shocked. This article has a photo of what happens when you open a glass kiln lid at top temperature:
http://www.glasscampus.com/tutorials/pdf/Kiln%20Lid%20Dust.pdf
Wow, Dennis, I *never* knew about that - I know there are differing opinions about crash cooling some say do it, some say never. I have done it a few times, and I mean only a few, probably 2 or 3. One time was I was in a desperate hurry to reduce the firing time (that was probably one Xmas Eve when I was still making a present) and on another, I needed to halt the process temperature.
I certainly shan't be doing it again without a very good reason, thank you for telling us about that, Dennis.
Quote from: Dennis Brady on October 13, 2009, 05:33:44 PM
Why the greater popularity of Bullseye? Greater supply availability?
When I first started, which was 3 or 4 years ago, my teacher introduced me to Bullseye. I knew others were out there, but at the time, I couldn't find a UK supplier. The local stained glass supplier stocked a range which I Think included some Spectrum cathedrals, but couldn't tell me the COE, but I couldn't find any other brands for a long time (And it was through a stockist mentioned on FHF that I found other suppliers)
Even now, I wouldn't say it's widely available, not online anyway and I don't live near any of the glass stockists.
In terms of price, I just had a quick look, and whilst Spectrum IS cheaper it's certainly not almost half the price.
So probably a combination it being more readily available, and that Bullseye getting to market quicker means a lot of us already have it, and that Spectrum isn't SO much cheaper that changing can be justified.
Well...........What a relief! It really is very simple. I followed the recommend instructions and in seconds chose Auto.....Fast.....Full Fuse, and that was it!
Don't laugh.... but I made a log. I decided to put a few pieces (of different sizes from 2cm - 5cm long and 1cm to 2cm wide) in the kiln as it's recommended to do that to see if it's firing properly. So after careful cutting I wrote down a full description of of each little stack with a few experiments i.e. overhanging with clear caps, stacking exact cuts, measurements of each piece etc etc.
The whole program took 4hrs and 41mins but another 8 hrs to cool down - and YES is was 2am in the morning before I got to bed! but I was determined to log everything for the first firing and I logged the cool down temperatures every hour or so. Honestly it was like waiting outside a maternity ward - you can tell my passion for this!
I suppose now I could just switch off the power once it's finished the program and know that I can leave it for 8hrs overnight before opening it???? or can't I???
Anyway, I am REALLY pleased with the outcome and of the test pieces I put in, I have a good idea of what works well. The Spectrum 96 performed the best I have to say - nice clean lines and rounded in the right places.
I also popped in a couple of stacks of 90coe dichro (ripple on black) and clear Tekta which didn't work so well - they were kind of uneven and rippled at the sides. I took it that I didn't overhang the Tekta enough to encase the ripple. All part of the test though.
But overall - I'm very pleased.
Thanks again for all your help yesterday - I learned a lot!
Linda x
QuoteI suppose now I could just switch off the power once it's finished the program and know that I can leave it for 8hrs overnight before opening it???? or can't I???
For small pieces (like jewelry cabochons) you can do that. Many artisans fire that way. However, you may end up with pieces that are inadequately annealed (to pop apart at some later time) or thermal shock crack from too rapid cooling. You've discovered that the longest part of the firing schedule is the cooling time. You can ramp up and down quickly above 1000F but below that is the danger zone. The greatest risk is between 600F and 1000F. Kilns are very efficient at holding heat. It's not uncommon for you to program a ramp down schedule that your kiln can't cool fast enough to match.
You can take a couple or more hours off your cooling time by using the 3-2-1 cooling system. You can also experiment with higher speed ramps than commonly recommended. Our shop practice is to routinely ramp at almost twice the super-safe speeds recommended by Bullseye.
If you want to just shut down after completing the fuse, you don't need to physically turn it off. Just program it in the final segment to ramp down FAP to 0. The sooner you stop using the preprogrammed schedules in your kiln, the sooner you'll start learning how your kiln works.