Unfortunately, I have built up a collection of beads welded to their mandrels and have tried everything I can think of to get them off and not sacrifice the mandrels. I'm willing to sacrifice the glass (well kinda... I need the mandrels back for my super-productive days!) so I'm wondering whether to put them in a bag and bash the beads with a hammer, or be super brave (or stupid?!) and stick them in the flame to get them to explode them off? I know what the daredevil in me wants but the sensible voice in my head says don't try it!! What would the FH community recommend? How do you deal with this perennial problem? I only have a couple of plants in the house and they are already heavily decorated with the nice beads I haven't let go of yet (think I should stop getting attached to glass!) so should I just buy more plants and abandon the mandrels?! :D
To stop this continuously happening, I think I need to change my bead release. I use Fusion at the moment, I shake and stir the pot thoroughly before use and always ensure the mandrels have a decent coat on, but should I double dip the mandrels? I'm running low on bead release, so it might be a prime time to change, but I can't make my mind up and would like some advice and experiences please! :) I don't own any presses (yet!!!) but will need something that can withstand a bit of work without being so strong that you can't get the beads off. Thank you in advance! :)
I use fusion and have no problems getting beads off.
Could it be that you are overworking them?
I'm having the complete opposite problem with fusion at the moment....it keeps breaking up on me when working on a bead >:( maybe we should swap tubs lol
I must admit, I have been lucky with bead release, and I am using the um..grey blue sludge (?). However, I have had some stubborn beads, and have retrieved them eventually by:
1. leaving them for weeks, literally, then going at them by gripping the mandrel VERY firmly with pliers, just above the clean part, and wiggling the bead while pushing it towards the pliers,
2. Holding the mandrel right at the tip (bead end) and whipping the other end of it against something hard enough to make it vibrate...so it reacts like a ruler against a school desk, if you know what I mean....then following the above step.
If the bead has dragged the release off the mandrel while the glass is still molten, the glass has probably stuck to the metal....If it was me, I'd smash it off, melt down any glass that is still stuck so that it is smooth, then just use the other end ;D
Good luck, hope you can rescue them!
Quote from: pixiewillow on July 28, 2009, 10:15:56 PM
I'm having the complete opposite problem with fusion at the moment....it keeps breaking up on me when working on a bead >:( maybe we should swap tubs lol
me too - I was wondering if I had watered it down a little too much and then I realised that there was a whole lot that had dried round the opening, so gave it a good mix and the two beads I did after that seemed to be a little better.
In general when I can't get the beads of I used this
(http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/ww140/_Krysia_/n583866329_1243006_4991.jpg)
He responds to Bob. And bless him I see him most wednesdays and he almost looks disappointed when I don't have any that are stuck. (NB, not all the mandrels survive) If you desperate he'll be back of holiday in two weeks if you want to post them - I can not guarantee the safe return of either bead or mandrel, but I will send the 'remains'
Quote from: Failariel on July 28, 2009, 10:07:43 PM
I use fusion and have no problems getting beads off.
Could it be that you are overworking them?
I agree with Colette. I have used Fusion for over 18 months with no problems except when I have overworked a bead.
I threw a few wonkies in with mine and it helps to keep the consistency right when you add more water.
Kazx
Quote from: Krysia on July 28, 2009, 10:37:23 PM
Quote from: pixiewillow on July 28, 2009, 10:15:56 PM
I'm having the complete opposite problem with fusion at the moment....it keeps breaking up on me when working on a bead >:( maybe we should swap tubs lol
me too - I was wondering if I had watered it down a little too much and then I realised that there was a whole lot that had dried round the opening, so gave it a good mix and the two beads I did after that seemed to be a little better.
In general when I can't get the beads of I used this
(http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/ww140/_Krysia_/n583866329_1243006_4991.jpg)
He responds to Bob. And bless him I see him most wednesdays and he almost looks disappointed when I don't have any that are stuck. (NB, not all the mandrels survive) If you desperate he'll be back of holiday in two weeks if you want to post them - I can not guarantee the safe return of either bead or mandrel, but I will send the 'remains'
LOL! I was just about to come back with m third option, my OH gripping the mandrel with pliers using both hands, and me wiggling an pushing......erm, whers the blushing smiley when you need it.......?!
You don't mention how you're trying to take beads off - even the well behaved beads are often difficult to take off with just a pair or pliers. Get some mole grips (google if you don't know what they are) - usually available from a standard hardware or B+Qs. The mole grips can be set using the screw at the bottom. Set the jaws to just a little thinner than the mandrel diameter and lock the jaws onto the mandrel as close to the bead as you can get (on the long side of the mandrel). The jaws will click on to the locked position. You can release the jaws by depressing the lever on the handle.
Take an old damp cloth (in our house it is often the dish cloth - but I promise I don't use it for the dishes afterwards!) - and wrap it over the bead, which you have soaked in water for a few minutes and twist off.
If you're still having trouble with this then you have a problem with your beads release. Fusion is a pretty good bead release but if it is too thin your beads will stick. Your bead release needs to be about McDonalds Shake consistency. If you've repeatedly watered it down to single cream thickness you've gone too far with it. You can double dip - dip once, leave 30 secs and dip again. That should do it, but always make sure it is well mixed. You can make your beads sticky if you overwork the glass, but Fusion is pretty forgiving in this regard.
Don't leave your beads soaking for too long - I just soak for a minute or so - soaking overnight can actually make your beads stick more and will leave orange rust marks near the holes of the bead.
If it's really stuck you can try freezing the bead and trying the above.
Or, you can break the bead off - yes, gingerly try one in the flame but wear some of those over eye goggles that you can get at DIY places and make sure no flying shards will cause damage/fire. Alternatively put the bead and mandrel in a double plastic bag and whack with a hammer - but don't forget the googles and take care.
Thank you for all your replies! It's not a case of overworking (I think!) for the majority that have stuck;it takes me 2-3 mins to make bead then waft in the flame. But in some cases it's most likely to be overworking - I can get a bit carried away now and again. I have watered down the bead release a couple of times so maybe it's a bit unhappy with me for doing this! It's just sad when I've made 30 spacers and 10 of them are welded on, not a great percentage success!
Red hotSal - you are the lampwork oracle with the answers to all questions! I never knew soaking them for longer could weld them on more; I've left beads soaking for 24 hours before - whoops!! I shall be copying down your tips and hopefully have a better success rate!! (BTW I only soaked beads in water and washing-up liquid then used flat-nosed pliers to try to get bead off or pushing down on bead to remove, not very technical but I didn't realise there were other ways!)
Quote from: Krysia on July 28, 2009, 10:37:23 PM
In general when I can't get the beads of I used this
(http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/ww140/_Krysia_/n583866329_1243006_4991.jpg)
He responds to Bob. And bless him I see him most Wednesdays and he almost looks disappointed when I don't have any that are stuck. (NB, not all the mandrels survive) If you desperate he'll be back of holiday in two weeks if you want to post them - I can not guarantee the safe return of either bead or mandrel, but I will send the 'remains'
I own something very similar to this (he responds to "Ian" or "No, don't do that!") but he's banned from trying to remove beads after bending mandrels left, right and centre! But he has got the odd one off in tact. Thank you for the offer of Bob, I shall bear him in mind.
Thank you everybody, I'm hopeful of having a greater than 1 in 3 success rate soon! Now, where did that hammer go...?! ;D
I do as Sal does but instead of molegrips I have a small bench vice. I grab the wet bead with kitchen roll and twist and pull at the same time. I have been on fusion too for the past year and so far not one bead stuck on.
have you tried pushing the bead up and down the rod? I know it sound counter intuative but I find that works far better then twisting.
Check out the 'Best ever tips' thread on
http://www.frit-happens.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=12145.15 (http://www.frit-happens.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=12145.15)
I use a riveter to get my very stuck beads off - works well, although sometimes have a casualty! They are only a few pounds to buy from B&Q or somewhere like that!
I always water my fusion down and coat pretty thinly, but I don't find it makes the beads stick, conversely I think the cooked fusion crumbles up more easily as you twist the bead, the only prob is it breaks up sometimes.
I usually dip at the beginning of a session, and so with the ones that are still wet, introduce them gently to the top of the flame as putting them straight in to the hot part can make it 'boil' a bit on the mandrel, which makes it rougher. I don't know if this would make them stick any more often?
Also I have been using a trick I saw somewhere about holdong the mandrel in the pliers and pushing the bead further on rather than pulling to start with.
Hope you find a solution :)
Quote from: Redhotsal on July 28, 2009, 11:27:57 PM
...
Don't leave your beads soaking for too long - I just soak for a minute or so - soaking overnight can actually make your beads stick more and will leave orange rust marks near the holes of the bead.
...
What do you mean by soaking here? - I'm a newbie!
Quote from: Heather on October 09, 2009, 08:36:37 PM
Quote from: Redhotsal on July 28, 2009, 11:27:57 PM
...
Don't leave your beads soaking for too long - I just soak for a minute or so - soaking overnight can actually make your beads stick more and will leave orange rust marks near the holes of the bead.
...
What do you mean by soaking here? - I'm a newbie!
Welcome
leaving in water over night. the water can cause the bead release to expand in the teeny tiny gap betwen the bead and the rod and this makes it harder to come off!
I have tried Sally's recommendation of using Cillit Bang Lime & Grime...it works a treat.
small vice (from the pound shop) and a microfibre cloth for grippiness!!! after soaking for about 10 mins I twist the bead gently back and forth until I feel it give and then pull upwards, if that fails a hammer on the wall outside does the trick ( only used so far to rescue keys where i haven't even used bead release)... good luck :)
I have not really had too much of a problem with this - perhaps only 3 beads stuck in a little over a year of beading, with Fusion that is...
But recently I bought some "Dirty Louie" from Martin and this seems to have caused me no end of problems in terms of bending my mandrels trying to release the beads after firing. The thicker mandrels are fine but all of my fine mandrels are nearly fit for the bin, bent at both ends trying to get the beads off. I have tried dipping the night before with this release ( that makes it worse), dipping on the day - slightly better but not as good as fusion, and finally - mixing the release with some fusion lurking at the bottom of the old pot - better, but I wouldn't buy it again. I have watered it down too - to the correct consistency, but clearly it is just more difficult to work with.
I am going to order some more fusion from Martin soon because otherwise it is going to cost me a fortune in replacement mandrels......Does anyone on here use this release, with any success that is? Perhaps it's me :-(
I've read about the same problems you're having with Dirty Louie. I decided as I was pretty much alone in struggling with Fusion, I'd give it another go as it was more likely to be me causing the problem (think I'd watered it down too many times! ::)) Since I bought the new Fusion (it's over half empty now! ;D) and finding an old vice that was hiding in the garage, I've not had a single bead stick since!! Sorry that doesn't help with your issues, but I know you're definitely not alone! :)
If you truly can't get them off and want to sacrifice the beads to reuse the mandrels, instead of sticking them in the flame to make them explode, warm them up in the kiln (or hot oven) then shatter them by sticking them in cold water, a bit safer. Watch which mandrels they are though, I had a bunch of mandrels and just about every bead stuck, since I wheedled the dodgy ones out I've not had any problems.