I'm not sure if this is the right section to ask in, so here goes.
Although I have just purchased a HH torch an acquaintance of mine is thinking of selling me his unused Bobcat in the future once I get the hang of beadmaking (which he has currently lurking in a drawer). This gives him time to think if he wants to sell it after all! Trouble is, I was thinking of saving up for a Minor instead as I have already used one and liked it.
Which one is better? I've been told the Bobcat burns cleaner and gets hotter, is this true?
I would like to have something to aim for while saving so all honest opinions about the torches would be appreciated.
A quick aside, roughly how much does it cost for a Oxygen bottle (initial outlay, then refills) as I would have to save up for a oxy-con next.
Don't know the Bobcat (I use a Minor, which I love). But I do know bottled oxy is not the cheap route! Apart from the the oxy and bottle, you need to buy hosing, regulator and flashback arrestor, none of which you need for an oxy-con. And it runs out fast, I read of people using a tank or even two per week! Whereas my propane lasts about 6 months.
Personally the oxy-con seemed easiest (I live out at the back of beyond) and safest, though bottled oxy is definitely hotter.
I tried a bobcat at the weekend, and it's definitely fast and hot. Someone else who used it who usually uses a minor said it was hotter than the minor. I like that you could adjust the flame down to a very neat little point as well. It also looks prettier than a minor!
Having said that, I was hoping to try a lynx as well, but I don't think they have arrived yet.
I love my Bobcat! I've tried a Minor Burner and would go for the Bobcat everytime. Apart from the fact the Bobcat is just so sexy, it has a lifetime warranty, and you can send it back for cleaning if need be. The flame is easily controllable and even with one oxycon it melts boro surprisingly easily. If ever I upgrade it will be within the GTT range. ;)
Oooooooh! That's interesting to know!! I've been musing over a bobcat ;D
We've just set our two up today, so not had time to play as yet, but I did like it when testing on Saturday. We've also gone the oxygen route as I simply haven't got the space (or money right now) for 2 oxycons. The bits 'n' bobs (bearing in mind we have two splitters for oxygen and propane and two lots of the connectors and quite a bit of hosing etc) cost around £170-£180 from a Welding Supplier (though I already had a propane regulator as I was using HH with bulk) and the oxygen is around £55 rental for a year plus £25 ish for oxygen - that's the second size up. If we are getting through too much, we will upgrade to the next size up. Hope that helps because we didn't have a clue how much it would be, but this is cheaper than 2 oxycons, though it will cost longer eventually due to the cost of the oxygen.
Contacted BOC today and listened in horror as the man at the other end totted up the price for everything. It turned out to be about £40 less than an oxy-con, so I've decided instead to save up for one of those!
Great to hear about the Bobcat as a torch - I think I'm now going to buy that instead of a Minor thanks to your reports :) One other I've heard of is a Bethlehem SS Minnow. Isnt that the one with the very very fine flame point?
BOC wouldn't be the cheapest place to get your goods - a local Welding Supplier would be better. Though an oxycon would be cheaper in the long run I would think (despite the ever increasing electric prices, of course) !
one HUGE oxygen saving tip is to set your regulator to a max of 2psi on the oxygen side... we were using one and a half of the big oxy tanks PER DAY in murano, until i twigged that everyone was simply "over oxy'ing" their flames.. the high psi (i think we were at about 5 psi) meant that the torches were simply blasting the extra oxy out - logically there can only be a certain amount of oxy being used by the propane, and 2 psi seems to be the perfect sweet spot... we cut our consumption by over 75% just by turning the regulator down a little...
according to my calcs and experience a single large cylinder can last a typical (a few hours per day average) lamp worker more than a month.. make ABSOLUTELY sure to turn the oxy off at the tank every night though, and drain the lines... the very high pressure of the oxy cylinder itself means the tiniest leak will drain your tank in short order..
;)
Thanks for that, Q, I will tell DH ! He did turn it down a bit after we lit for the first time as I thought we were about to burn the house down! Need to play with it a little, I guess, and get used to it. We've only lit it once, so far, just to test it.
Bobcat gets my vote - I love it !! ;D ;D Been on it a couple of hours or so and have finally managed to get a bit of colour out of terra and also da vinci double purple. I still need to practise with DH and Northstar, but they were not completely resembling poo, for a change ! ;D
Its really all about getting the best out of your torch whichever you eventually decide on.
The gtt torches are new to the uk suppliers so lets have a look at what is required on the propane and oxygen set up.......bobcat can be run on one concentrator 5lpm and propane 5psi,saying that the objective is to get the max out of any torch you would choice to buy the bobcat top max would be 8lpm at 15psi the same as the lynx ,but you would need 2 cons to run the lynx to its near max,a cheetah on 2 cons would be ok but on 2 5lpm cons i would say the potential of running this torch would be around 50% to 60% its really a 02 beast runs best on tanked oxygen,also the bobcat works least well when the concentrator is tired ie had much use 40,000 above,the nortal minor would run better on 1 recon 5lpm tired unit hope you might find something usefull in this post c.j.
Having seen the responses (thank you to everyone that replied ;D), can I be pertinent and ask for a new sticky to be placed in the Newbie/Equipment section?
Can someone write a review/s of the torches people tend to step up to after a HH? Not a full review just a basic outline guide such as flame size, heat range, how much oxygen it would need, and its good and bad points?
Perhaps different people can just do a brief outline in each post about their own particular torch. This might be helpful to anyone thinking of upgrading or switching. I know I would find it useful as to me buying a torch upgrade is like buying a new mobile phone - I like to check out all its features, good and bad points before I buy.
There's another torch that can be added to the Nortel Minor and the GTT Bobcat level: the Bethlehem S.S. Minnow. Which one has the wider flame for instance? ???
....and what about the Carlisle Mini CC, have heard a few good things about that one... :)
Ancasta, you may want to check out Corina's torch review (it's subjective, but she has a lot of experience..):
http://www.corinabeads.com/pages/torchreview.php
All good info here about burners and oxygen. Be great to test drive reports but as we are all individual and no one works in same way i bet there will be hundreds of different views. I use oxygen in a "Y" size from a BOC agent as they don't deliver direct. Try "Air-Products" as a comparison. The advice on running at low pressure is good. I run at 15 psi using maybe 20 hors a week and bill averages out £75-£100 month maybe. Working in the far North Highlands is real pain as we pay more for oxygen that elsewhere but then I pay horrendous delivery charges for glass and even petrol is more expensive !!! Grrrr !!!!
I am aware of more than one manufacturer of generators for oxygen so make sure you do a complete market survey.
Ian Pearson
Quote from: julieHB on April 28, 2008, 07:34:52 AMyou may want to check out Corina's torch review (it's subjective, but she has a lot of experience..)
Interesting reviews, thanks for that! ;D
Everyone will have their own preference which is why I thought a neutral comparison would help, such as flame size, oxygen needed etc. Judging by the threads on the Flamework Etc site amongst others a comparison list is often asked for. However, setting up the different torches at the Flame Off was an excellent idea although I didn't have time to try out the all the ones I was interested in :-\
Just to pick up the thread again, I was reading this http://www.glassbeadmakers.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3321&st=0&sk=t&sd=a with interest.. I still can't decide what I want though! I am leaning towards the bobcat, but I am worried about it getting dirty all the time, and sending it back for cleaning..
I'm wondering if Beadysam has had any of the reported problems? Or maybe it's just swings and roundabouts.. I might just give up trying to make an informed decision and go with the prettiest ;D
Quote from: turnedlight on May 03, 2008, 12:44:50 PM
I might just give up trying to make an informed decision and go with the prettiest ;D
Spoken like a true girlie ;D ;D ;D ........... yaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyy !!!!!!!!!!!!
xxx
I know mine is not a Bobcat, I've just bought a Cheetah... hubby was feeling guilt after his fourth Holiday this year... yes.. fourth! and I'd just been to the flame off and seen the Cheetah in action, was telling him about it an how I might save up to buy one, he said well, get it.. tomorrow! I only needed telling once, and did so. I love it.. the GTT Cheetah is fab, I had a nortel minor before, and still have, its sat on my studio shelf sulking at the moment, but my Cheetah after a few teething problems (all my own making by the way!) is really fantastic... go for the Bobcat, I love this GTT Torch! ;D ;D ;D
I wouldn't mind a bit of feedback on the Lynx, if anyone's got one :)
There has been a bit of a cabinet reshuffle regarding in the torch I was offered and I am now a proud owner of a Bethlehem Minnow. I currently don't own an oxycon so I will have to borrow one to test it out and I will report back. In the meantime if anyone has or is using one I would appreciate any comments ;D
I've been using a minnow for about a year. I love it. You can spot heat to pin point precision, and it's a very hot flame. The only thing I'm find now, is that I am doing much bigger beads - 36 to 40mm lentils quite a lot, and because the flame is narrower than a minor, you do have to flash the bead back and forth/side to side a constantly to keep the entire bead hot. You've just enough time to lay down the trunk of a tree before you need to re-heat the other end again. I've found on the occasion I use my FIL's minor, because the flame is wider and covering more bead, I'm not moving the bead around so manically :D Wouldn't be without my minnow though. EVen if I get chance to upgrade torch I'll be keeping hold of the minnow because it's great with detailed work.
That was quite helpful Billie, thanks! So it's bushy flame versus more precision.. and still no closer to a decision! Wonder what my DH would say to getting two.. ;D
I think a torch is quite a personal thing. Given the choice of a minnow or minor, I'd choose the minnow every time. The only reason I'm considering another torch in future is so I have the option of doing some boro work and bigger sculptural pieces with soft glass.
That was very helpful Billie, thanks for sharing your experiences with the Minnow ;D Its made me think though as I would like to make lentils in the future. Perhaps a splitter from the gas and setting up my HH might do the trick?