I was hoping there might be someone to enlighten me.. I know that I can't sell silver items over 7.5g (is that the correct figure?) unless I hallmark, up 'til now I have assumed that on my completely handmade pieces, but does it still apply when you buy some chain and solder on bought ends etc? ???
As far as I know, it still applies........................
It's the total silver weight in a finished item, and I think it's a bit more than 7.5g, perhaps 7.8?
And anyone been down the hallmarking route? Do you have to send every item off?
I think you have to pay to register your own hallmark with the Assay office, and then send each item to have to applied. I believe there is a one-off payment to set up and then a charge each time it is put on an item. I might be wrong about this. I deliberately don't sell heavier silver items for this very reason!
I thought as much.. I will have to find out some more.. :-\
Yep, been there, done that and been utterly confused by it! ::)
IIRC, it's 7.8g for silver. When you sign up, it's quite an outlay... I should have my original invoice around here somewhere... <rummage-rummage>... here we go... ah... a bit confusing even now! You have to choose your maker's mark and then pay to register it which I think was £50. Then you have to pay for the punch to be made, which was another £50.
You send your pieces to them along with a completed "hallnote". You pay per item you want with your maker's mark on it and there's a minimum charge of £10.50. You'll need to do a lot of reading to get yourself completely straight with it all! I registered in December 2005, so allow for some things having changed and my memory not being great!
I'm registered with the Assay Office in Scotland - http://www.assay-office.co.uk/ (http://www.assay-office.co.uk/) - because having looked at the prices of the various Offices, theirs seemed the cheapest at the time. They also had the best website - easiest to navigate and most informative and they've implemented online tracking since I first registered.
Hope this helps and I've not confused the issue any ;D
Some of the assay offices do good rates for students. So if you are in a silversmithing class or anything similar it might be worth asking your tutor to look into it.
There is also lazer hallmarking now I think, which probably works out cheaper since no need for a maker's mark.
Most of the assay offices I talked to when researching this stuff for an article on my site were really helpful and friendly and answered all the questions I had. Most of the sites had quite good FAQs too.
Emma
Quote from: ejralph on May 14, 2008, 07:17:43 PM
There is also lazer hallmarking now I think, which probably works out cheaper since no need for a maker's mark.
I enquired after this when I applied because I thought I'd save a bit of money but was informed (by more than one Assay Office employee because I didn't believe it at first! ;D) that you still have to have your mark registered and a stamp made... but as I said, it's been over two years so things might have changed....
Ok thanks for that - I never thought of registering with a non - local office! And no, I'm not a student now, when I did a silversmithing class there was mention of group hallmarking, but I never heard any more..
I had read all this up a while ago, but got thoroughly confused and put off - I only ever have a couple of pieces so it would be prohibitively expensive with the minimum charges etc. Hey ho, I'll just have to do them for myself :)
Janie's just saved me from typing out exactly the same information!
However if you just need the occasional piece hallmarked, you can use a hallmarking service from one of the bullion dealers (I've used Cooksons in the past).
The weight limit applies to the total silver content of a finished piece, so maille, even though not soldered, does count.
It's a total pita, but I guess is to protect people from unscrupulous sellers offering fake sterling items.
Is it just that you can't sell it as Sterling/Fine silver, or that you can't sell it full stop?
Quote from: Spookyjewel on May 15, 2008, 11:34:29 AM
Is it just that you can't sell it as Sterling/Fine silver, or that you can't sell it full stop?
That's a good question - the way I read it, you can't sell it and claim that it's Sterling or Fine Silver. Which implies that as long as you don't actually claim it to be a precious metal you can still sell it...? If you did that, though, it'd be difficult to get the prices you need to cover the cost of materials...
I won't do that, as the heavier items in question cost a fair bit to make and I would want to really sell the fact that it's all sterling..
If they cost a fair bit to make then presumably the cost of hallmarking would be worth it, then?
Quote from: Shirley on May 15, 2008, 05:04:57 PM
If they cost a fair bit to make then presumably the cost of hallmarking would be worth it, then?
Sorry Shirley, I know I don't sound logical, but we're talking two or three items in four or five months at the most! I didn't mean to sound like a big whingebucket :(
Quote from: turnedlight on May 15, 2008, 05:32:54 PM
Quote from: Shirley on May 15, 2008, 05:04:57 PM
If they cost a fair bit to make then presumably the cost of hallmarking would be worth it, then?
Sorry Shirley, I know I don't sound logical, but we're talking two or three items in four or five months at the most! I didn't mean to sound like a big whingebucket :(
Er, not sure why you thought I thought you were whinging ???
Please don't get confused if an item is stamped 925. All this means is that the maker is saying that is it sterling quality. It isn't a hallmark.
I really want to sell some of the larger Thai pendants in my shop, but they are way over the weight. Guess I might look into getting them hallmarked. :)
Quote from: Shirley on May 15, 2008, 09:53:25 PM
Quote from: turnedlight on May 15, 2008, 05:32:54 PM
Quote from: Shirley on May 15, 2008, 05:04:57 PM
If they cost a fair bit to make then presumably the cost of hallmarking would be worth it, then?
Sorry Shirley, I know I don't sound logical, but we're talking two or three items in four or five months at the most! I didn't mean to sound like a big whingebucket :(
Er, not sure why you thought I thought you were whinging ???
Sorry 'bout that :) I just can't justify the costs.. and I was feeling annoyed that I can't see a way around it! After what I've spent in the last couple of weeks, there's no way I'll be able to do this for a while!
Just reopening this, I bought some thai silver bracelets from the netherlands to put my beads on, they are unfortunately over the weight so I presume I can't sell them on.
However, do you think it would be alright to display my beads on them and just say the bracelet's not for sale?
Also, I have made lots of pmc small beads, and want to display them all together on a bracelet, giving an example total price, do you reckon this will be ok as each bead is a separate price, and it would be up to the customer how many they buy?
I'm so cheesed off that these lovely thai bracelets are too heavy.. :(
Someone please shout if I'm wrong but the way I understand it is:
You can sell anything you like, regardless of weight and hallmark but unless it has a genuine UK hallmark you are not able to market it as "Sterling Silver"
Turnedlight, you can market your bracelets as "Thai Silver" as they are, but not "Sterling" unless you get them hallmarked.
I am registered with the Sheffield Assay Office but don't send very much off to them these days as the beads are my first love and all my silversmithing has kinda gone out the window!
Hope this helps :)
'It is an offence under the Hallmarking Act to describe unhallmarked articles as being made totally or partly of gold, silver or platinum or, supply or offer to supply an article that is made of gold, silver or platinum which has not been hallmarked.'
I read the second part as saying that you can't even sell it if you say it's thai silver, not silver, or sterling or whatever.
I really hope I'm wrong, but I don't think so..
Oops, pretty sure you're right Kathryn having read the act!
I'm gonna keep my big gob shut :-X :-X :-X :-[ :-[ :-[
Interestingly though I called The Sheffield Assay office and pressed the number for hallmarking enquiries and the person on the phone didn't know!!!!
but then there's this..
UK Hallmarking Act
'Current hallmarking requirements come under the UK Hallmarking Act 1973 and subsequent amendments. The Act is built around the principle of description, where it is an offence for any person to apply to an unhallmarked article a description indicating that it is wholly or partly made of gold, silver or platinum. There is an exemption by weight: compulsory hallmarks are not needed on gold under 1g, silver under 7.78g and platinum under 0.5g. Also, some descriptions are permissible, such as rolled gold and gold plate.'
This one backs you up Helen..
I spoke to the Edinburgh assay office recently and the man I spoke to was really helpful and answered all my questions really clearly.
He said if a piece is fine silver thai silver or sterling or a mix of those on an item they test all the silver (with you sending it as a mixed item) and they mark at what the overall lowest silver content is, so if a piece is mostly fine silver with a sterling clasp then it would be marked as sterling as that is the lowest silver content.
You weigh the piece without the beads and that is the total weight of it.
You can sell it without a mark but yes it has to be called white metal and not claimed to be silver if it is over a certain weight 7.78 grammes and not hallmarked
You choose and buy a makers mark which is what traces the item to you the maker and identifies the maker
the crown hallmark is added and the silver content ie 925
the cost was when I called, about 47.00 to register for 10 years , makers mark punch 55.00, cost of items about 10.00 but this gets less when you have more items .
they were really nice I copied down these notes and am pretty sure this is all right but a phone call will clarify anything!
Sorry if I'm repeating whats already been said, its just that i had checked all this out recently and found the guy I spoke to really knowledgeable and easy to speak to and thought I could pass it on :)
mmmmmmmmmmm all very interesting, the lady that didn't know when I rang the assay office said she'd get someone that did to call me on Monday....will report the outcome ;)
Thank you so much - I'm very happy with this bit
'You can sell it without a mark but yes it has to be called white metal and not claimed to be silver if it is over a certain weight 7.78 grammes and not hallmarked'
As I can now take my bracelets to sell, as long as I don't claim them to be silver. :)
And ..... if you are selling hallmarked items, you have to display one of the Assay Office's hallmark notices, you can only get them from the Assay Offices and cannot use a photocopy. They cost £10.
Ahhh, Lottie , are these large poster size displaying info about hallmarks, I saw these at the last craft fair (my first craft fair) I was at, i wondered why people had them. I wasn't selling weighty enough silver for it to matter at the time.
Just to add (an extra complication) you can only not describe items as silver (sterling, argentium or fine) in writing. If you tell somebody verbally, apparently it's OK.
I wish trading standards would spend a bit more time targeting unscrupulous ebay sellers rather than tormenting small scale artisans to be honest.
Thanks for that too! Excellent news :)
Quote from: jammie on July 03, 2009, 07:21:18 PM
I spoke to the Edinburgh assay office recently and the man I spoke to was really helpful and answered all my questions really clearly.
He said if a piece is fine silver thai silver or sterling or a mix of those on an item they test all the silver (with you sending it as a mixed item) and they mark at what the overall lowest silver content is, so if a piece is mostly fine silver with a sterling clasp then it would be marked as sterling as that is the lowest silver content.
You weigh the piece without the beads and that is the total weight of it.
You can sell it without a mark but yes it has to be called white metal and not claimed to be silver if it is over a certain weight 7.78 grammes and not hallmarked
You choose and buy a makers mark which is what traces the item to you the maker and identifies the maker
the crown Hallmark is added and the silver content IE 925
the cost was when I called, about 47.00 to register for 10 years , makers mark punch 55.00, cost of items about 10.00 but this gets less when you have more items .
they were really nice I copied down these notes and am pretty sure this is all right but a phone call will clarify anything!
Sorry if I'm repeating whats already been said, its just that i had checked all this out recently and found the guy I spoke to really knowledgeable and easy to speak to and thought I could pass it on :)
Well as promised the assay office have just phoned me and pretty much confirmed the above post.
This is what my man at Sheffield Assay Office had to say:
"If an individual item or the total precious metal content of an item e.g the combined weight of precious metal only in a glass bead necklace, is under the compulsory weight of 7.8g then you are able to describe it as anything you want, silver, sterling silver, hilltribe silver etc.
If an individual item or the total precious metal content of an item e.g the combined weight of precious metal only in a glass bead necklace, is over the compulsory weight of 7.8g then it must carry a UK hallmark for you to be able to use the word silver in any description when selling it.
You are allowed to describe items of any weight as white metal at any time."
I also questioned the wording on my website which is:
"I use a variety of soft glass in a wonderful array of colours and as a trained jeweller I often transform my beads into beautiful jewellery. Nothing is silver plated, all components are Sterling and I use Sterling, Karen Hill Tribe and Bali silver beads throughout."
I asked about the use of the word silver in general information and he was a bit flustered and said "that's a bit woolly" and decided that it is OK but that he would advise, because I am implying that the metal used is silver, that I should show due diligence and randomly test items/components I buy in as many sold as silver, particularly online, are not actually silver."
Even the man "in the know" agreed that it is all a bit "grey" so what hope is there for us to be fully "in the know" ??? I feel a little more comfortable with it now though :)
Very, very confusing ???
I had wondered about the PMC/Silver Clay thing - can you describe the process of making fine silver items from PMC on an info page on your website, but describe the actual item as white metal on your shop page? I guess this is one of those grey areas.
Interesting that you can verbally call it whatever you want, though!
From what the guy told me, yes you can describe the process and what you use on an info page or home page using the words silver , fine silver etc, but not in the description of an item you are offering for sale.