Just wondered if this is possible.
I have never batched annealed, but due to the higher fuel costs, I thought it was wrong to have the kiln on for only a couple of hours and to save it for the weekend.
I now have a nice stash of beads that need annealing and have some small racks that I can use so that half the kiln could be left empty for annealing as you go. But can this be done?
If it can, does anyone have a good schedule?
Hi Ilona. When I put my kiln on for 'as you go' I often put in a few beads from cold and bring them up to temp as the kiln ramps up to the holding temp of 500 then leave them in until I finish working, and then ramp up to anneal them with the others as usual. I don't have the exact schedule to hand but I'll dig it out for you tomorrow...
You can certainly do this, no problem. When I've done it, I've used a fairly slow ramp up, two hours to get to 968F. But that's me....I'm pretty conservative.
Just get 'em up to that annealing temp, faster or (I advise) slower, and then put in your new beads as you make them. Ramp them all down together, and you're golden.
I ramp over two hours to 700F, then...actually, I don't remember my program, sorry. I've had it so long that it just does it's thing, but it takes a few hours, then shuts off at 200F.
the temprature rise to above 250c is the most critical.. once they are up to there (GENTLY) you could probably speed the ramp up to 500 a bit... if you could turn your kiln on two hours or so before starting you could have a nice slow ramp up to 500 while you get the kids ready etc, then come to the studio with a toasty kiln and ready to go..
Just watch what colours you are using, pinks and reds don't always do well with a prolonged soak, they can go dark and muddy. And things like Terra can spoil too.
Quote from: Mary on April 28, 2008, 09:38:11 AM
Just watch what colours you are using, pinks and reds don't always do well with a prolonged soak, they can go dark and muddy. And things like Terra can spoil too.
Is that why my very first heart went kinda purple! it started out a deep ruby pink but came out of the kiln brownie purple. I will put my pinks to one side and run a special pink anneal next time. thanks.
What a shame! If you're garaging as you go, it's a good idea to save those colours for the end of session. Some pink frits are really bad for going "off"!
Well I have had a go tonight and put my little racks in and then heard a ping half way through, My lovely ivory heart had split in half ??? ???
Never mind though, at last I will have saved a few pennies on the electric bill.
Ilona
Quote from: Pandanimal on April 28, 2008, 09:42:37 PM
I will put my pinks to one side and run a special pink anneal next time. thanks.
It sounds like doing a whites wash and a coloureds wash! (but much more fun ;D)
Ilona, did the 'ping' happen on a bead that you were batching? Or was it one that you were just working on during that session?
Seems we are both broken hearted! What is it with hearts?
Hi Sherry,
It was a batch bead. It was a large thin heart, the best heart I had made so far. So maybe batching doesn't like hearts ::)
All the other beads have cooked nicely.
I usually heat my kiln up on full so it heats up fast, but this time I heated it up slowly to 700.
I am pleased that I was able to do this and now I can play anytime without having to have the kiln on every time.
Ilona
Ilona, it would be the fact it's thin. Thin areas, especially near a mandrel, cool much quicker than the rest of the bead, so they are vulnerable during the cooling stage. They are best put straight from torch to hot kiln, it's a shame to risk losing them.
Just wanted to drop in and say thank you all you lovely people who have passed on your knowledge in this thread - I have learned a heck of a lot here :)
..... um, and also understood why some of my pinks have been disappointing >:( ;D
Okay, so I've done several bulk anneals now, but have yet to try an anneal-as-you-go. I've got the schedule, but how long will it take to get up to temperature and then to do the actual annealing?
I've got an SC2.
I use:
Full>490>0:00
50>510>10:00
50>516>0:30
50>450>0:10
Off
It runs up to around 500 in the time it takes to pull some stringer and make a bead, and wobbles around 500 for a while before it settles, finishes the ramp to 510, and starts the 10hr timer. When you want to move the schedule on, press the up-arrow once, the display shows 'sstep'. Press the left hand button twice, and that's you. The kiln skips the rest of the hold time, jumping to the next ramp.
Hope that helps,
Sean
Edit: Oops, now I pay attention (!), I see you already have a schedule. Which one is it? Can you post it, so there's something to go on?
Hi
I have an SC2 and for standard 104 beads I use this:
Ramp1 149C
Temp1 520C
Hold1 60mins (This is a good "soaking time" – if you have massive beads then you might want to increase)
Ramp2 78C – (This is a slow ramp for up to approx 20mm beads – if your beads are smaller you can go up to say 120c)
Temp2 371C
Hold2 0000mins
Ramp3 0000
here's a link to an earlier post
http://www.frit-happens.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=859.0
hope this helps!
Have I read this right that some are "holding" time to "soak" glass for annealing for 6) mins? This seems long. Annealing borosilicate half an inch think requires a soak time of 30mins.
Ian
Hi Amber
If you want to know approx timings for as you go annealing, roughly speaking, mine takes 45 mins to reach 510. Then it holds that temp while I work. It holds again at that temp for 1 hour after the last bead has gone in. I then ramp down to 454 degrees, hold for 15 mins and then ramp down to 300, at which point it switches off. Total time from when i stop beading to the kiln switching off is around 41/2 hours :)
Hope this helps
My view is that annealing is not about soaking any length but of time taken for cooling. Thus if you soak for 30 mins or 60 mins the same glass item and cool at same rate there will be no difference in stress. However if you soak for 60 mins and cool down twice as quick as an item which has been soaked for 30 mins then you will have stress or potential for stress in the item soaked for 60 minutes. My oven takes 35 minutes to 580 degrees and I soak no longer than 20 minutes. Any longer and there is a danger of sagging. I can cool down within 3-4 hours OK. I accept that this is for boro but I have worked soda to similar method but accept again that this is for hollow and solid mixed.
Just a few thoughts.
Ian
When you batch anneal do you just put the beads on the kiln floor or do you use something to put them on.
I appear to have finally worked out how to ramp my kiln so hoping to actually start annealing some of my beads soon.
Jenny
I just plonk'em down in a big pile ;D
They dont stick together ?
Also should you clean them before annealling or after ? Some of the ones I have already made I have cleaned can I still anneal them.
Jenny
if they stick together your kiln has gotten too hot! if your kiln has a bead door you can put them on mandrels kebab-style and batch anneal
i clean all of mine before i send them for annealing, i dont want to be getting bead release all in someone else's kiln! but i dont think it matters if you leave it on or not!
i just pile them up on the floor too, they wont stick together as the temp doesnt go that high! I clean them after jenny, it just means there is less chance of breaking them during cleaning, but you can anneal the ones you have cleaned already no problem! have fun !
Thanks all kiln is doing a dry run at present (no beads in it) just to check that I have got the program right.
Jenny
They shouldn't stick, but I don't take the risk with ivory and rubino, as they are the colours someone mentioned as being a bit sticky. I usually anneal spacers in a pile on a tile in the kiln, but if I've got patterned beads to anneal then I usually make skewers from cut down mandrels suspended on some metal mesh. If you cut them down then they will fit in any kiln. You don't need a bead door to anneal this way.
As far as cleaning goes you can leave it until they have annealed, but it won't matter if you've already cleaned them. I think the reason it's recommended to leave the cleaning until later is because of the greater risk of damaging an unannealed bead during the cleaning process.
Thanks Shirley
What I have got to anneal at present is all small beads nothing to special yet, I did wonder about cutting down some mandrels for special beads. Will have to look into getting some mesh or something to support the mandrels
Jenny
Here's a very old thread that should help Jenny:-
http://www.frit-happens.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=859.0
As you can see from the pics you can anneal on mandrels cut down like Shirley said, no need to use bead door. When I used to batch anneal I used the kiln shelf supports to rest the mandrels on. You could also put more beads on the bottom underneath if you have a lot to do. Hope the pics are helpful :)
Thanks Carol that is a very helpful thread. I only have a small minikiln so it would be very cut down mandrels :-) but I like the idea with the mesh I will keep that in mind for the future.
Jenny
I put mine in a pyrex bowl and shove that in my kiln
Quote from: fionaess on May 12, 2010, 12:14:23 PM
I put mine in a pyrex bowl and shove that in my kiln
So do I, or on a kiln shelf on props.
Quote from: Margram on May 12, 2010, 12:31:14 PM
Quote from: fionaess on May 12, 2010, 12:14:23 PM
I put mine in a pyrex bowl and shove that in my kiln
So do I, or on a kiln shelf on props.
my kiln is so small it would have to be a very small dish a small butter dish might just fit
I put them all in pile a few went sticky but I do not think there was any of the colours mentioned above in there kiln was only Reading 510 but it did take 5.5 hours to get to that temp although I thought I set it to 210 minutes. Afew mainly pink ones look to have discoloured slightly on the side that was on the kiln floor so I might try putting some of the paper I use to use for fusing on the kiln floor next time.
But thanks for all your help.
Jenny
...and there's me, carefully spacing mine out every time I anneal my batches ::); I defo need to cut down some of my bent mandrels and get some wire mesh; great thread, thanks!
Please read before posting your questions
http://www.frit-happens.co.uk/wiki/Annealing
Quote from: fionaess on May 12, 2010, 12:14:23 PM
I put mine in a pyrex bowl and shove that in my kiln
Does anyone know if it is ok to do this is a fusing kiln?
Yes, its fine, the temp for annealing 104 glass is lower than the melting point of pyrex/borosilicate. I don't anneal my boro beads in it tho :) :) :)
Thanks for the reply
Have just bought a Paragon S2 kiln. Having been "playing" at making beads for a month or so we have some successes that I would like to batch anneal. I heard that we can just use an enamel dish - can I use a plate from camping? - it has a stainless steel trim round the rim - will that melt? or would I be better using a pyrex one?
???
Why not just let them lie on the (presumable nice and clean) base of your kiln?
That way you run no risk of contamination from coatings, galvanising finish, etc.
Sean
Better to have the beads in something, just in case the relay malfunctions and the kiln overshoots, melting the beads. Easier to replace a dish or kiln shelf than to repair the base of a kiln.
I just use a kiln shelf, coated with batt wash, when batch annealing. Even then, on my caldera, it wouldn't be the end of the world if molten glass ended up on the base - much more repairable than in an SC2.
If I were batch annealing in that, I would want the beads in some sort of dish with a lip to it, just to be ultra sure.
Emma
I found a pyrex lid which just fits inside the kiln without touching the sides. I really don't want to risk damaging the kiln in any way.
Can't wait for the weekend when I actually get to try the kiln out for real!! ;D
Have really enjoyed reading all of these posts, I got my sc2 for christmas and have not been brave enough to anneal beads from cold yet, :) but am now happy to try .
Like Skyblue I have enjoyed reading these posts and have found them helpful so a big thankyou to everyone.
Hi Everyone,
I am going to make myself look a little (or alot) dumb here but never mind. I am fairly new to lampwork. And when I say new I mean less than a month. I keep hearing about "ANNEALING" What is it and do I need to do it? Sorry to ask possibly an obvious question but I just don't know... Thank you in advance for any replies Rob AKA Weston_Glass_Man. :)
http://www.frit-happens.co.uk/wiki/Annealing
:)
Thank you, got it lol. Any recomended companies to go look at for prices etc?